Skyrim talk:In My Time Of Need/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:In My Time Of Need discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Dragon Rising

is not a required pre-requisite quest to begin this.

It is not a required quest but to get it from the Alik'r in Whiterun, you must have slain Mirmulnir (the Dragon in Dragon Rising). At least I think so. I couldn't seem to get them to appear by reentering the city a couple of times despite trying to get them to appear for a video recording. But once I had killed the Dragon, I could. It may only be required that you meet up with the Housecarl (Irilith?) outside of the Watch Tower, however this objective is not completed until the dragon booms the watch tower =). ExtremePhobia 14:58, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Nope I can confirm Dragon Rising is not required to do this quest. I am doing the quest right now, and although I have started Dragon Rising, I have not even gone close over to the watch tower.Tehuberleetmaster 07:31, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Can get the quest from wandering redguards

I got this quest by bumping into a redguard who asked me if I had seen a redguard woman around town. He then told me to meet him at another town if I found her. I then searched the town for redguard women and met relevant NPC, and then the quest went on as already described. I would assume I could have turned her in directly to the men without going to the dungeon, but that will require testing.

I ran into the two Redguards hassling the Redguard woman, but I couldn't get the quest from them. I already knew who they were talking about because I remembered the woman with the scar, but there is no dialogue option with them other than "Who are you looking for?"--RumblePen 12:03, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Pay fine, nothing happens

After paying the fine nothing appears to happen, the prisoner remains locked up and just repeats the request when spoken to. I've tried paying all three guards and waiting three hours. It's probably not a bug and it will eventually resolve but the delay should be mentioned in the walkthrough if it always happens. Bwilderbeast 23:58, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

If you've paid the fine and you're not getting an immediate dialog option on the guy, its a bug. They never let him out of that cell, and you should talk to him through the bars immediately after paying the fine. The bug may have something to do with waiting after paying the fine. --Affubalator 03:17, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

The same bug's affecting me- I've tried loading from an earlier save, and it doesn't seem to matter which guard I pay or when I speak to the Alik'r again, no new dialogue.

Same problem. Paying the fine seems not to trigger the next part of the prisoner dialogue. Probably it's a bug? --87.4.20.130 00:51, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Stealth Option to defeat Kematu

If you are a stealthy, bow-oriented character, you can defeat Kematu and the Alik'r this way:

1. Do the quest normally until you get to the end of Swindler's Den... 2. When Kematu speaks with you, neither say you'll help him nor that you'll kill him, just exit the conversation menu 3. Walk through the shortcut to the exit of Swindler's Den, it's to the right from the waterfall where you enter the area Kematu is 4. From here, you can use this as a vantage point, I killed all the Alik'r warriors with a single arrow each, being level 8 or so 5. For Kematu just walk up to him, say you'll kill him, and do it, I used dual swords with power-moves but I'm sure you can do it from afar, I just felt it'd be more epic this way.

Bug?

I handed Saadia to Kematu, completing the quest, but the Alik'r are still in Swindler's Den.

There are no conversations options with Kematu anymore.

I've killed them, but it seems the dungeon is never "cleared". Am I missing something?

Bug killing Kematu

If you dispose of Kematu through some means that doesn't involve personally killing him, like using Fury to turn his guards against him, the quest doesn't advance and the objective marker stays on Kematu's dead body. I didn't talk to him first, so I'm not sure whether that affects the outcome.

Even if you do kill him personally, but a poison or enchantment effect does the killing damage, you'll be stuck with the marker on his corpse, but you'll also get the marker to return to Saadia. 24.156.216.144 16:23, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

I used a Fury scroll on the group and they slaughtered each other, including Kematu, and I have the same problem with the quest not advancing. I spoke to Kematu first, so it doesn't matter whether you talk to him or not. TheMagician 22:51, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

I used Ravage Stamina and killed him and it is stuck with the arrow above his head. I went to talk to Saadia and the quest won't complete. She still wants me to kill him (or whatever). Does anyone know a work around? 74.111.11.170 20:22, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

i have this bug on the ps3 version as well, i thought i had done something wrong but he is dead and i can complete the quest as far as going back to Saaida and getting paid, but it's not showing up as having fully completed the quest. and i have 4 re-spawning Alik'r. Killemall22 21:06, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

On the xbox version/PC version, when you've finished the quest, you may still see random Alik'r warriors looking for a redguard woman, and two alik'r warriors will stay forever in the entrance of whiterun.

I can confirm this bug, I killed him without any interaction and the quest mark is still in his corpse and can't complete the quest. --201.79.54.40 23:12, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Redguards still in Rorikstead

I finished the quest by killing Kematu and his henchmen in the Swindler's Caves and got my reward from Sasdia, but afterwards when I traveled to Rorikstead I found some of the Reguards there, and on talking with them the option to lure Saadia to the stables came up again. In another save they started appearing in Whiterun itself with the same conversation option!59.95.163.239 04:15, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Did you, by chance kill Kematu without speaking to him?

Redguard Player?

If you play a female Redguard, will you be mistaken for that woman as well? — Unsigned comment by 217.231.148.207 (talk) at 14:09 on 14 December 2011

Nope. I played this quest with three different female characters (Redguard, Bosmer, Imperial) and had the same options and dialogue every time. Alphabetface 06:21, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank You VM. — Unsigned comment by 217.231.136.247 (talk) at 10:06 on 6 February 2012

They're still in Swindler's Den

I know it's a known bug, but is there any console magic I can use to make them go away or mark the dungeon as Cleared? 178.183.234.118 07:40, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Who is telling the truth?

Who's telling the truth? As a High Elf, i want to support the Aldmeri Dominion. However, i can't tell if Saadia is lying (in which case I'd help her) or if the mercenary warriors are lying(in which case I'd help them)70.44.49.241 19:40, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. Being a Nord and not really caring about the Aldmeri Dominion, I'd see a Saadia as a traitor to her city and possibly dangerous. However, that still doesn't solve the question of who to trust. As I see it, there are a few factors to consider:

Saadia telling the truth

1. The first time the Alik'r came to Whiterun, one of them was thrown in jail. This immediately casts doubt on their lawfulness - but then, it could be a case of overzealous or corrupt guards (they certainly seem mean and lazy, judging by the jailer's fecklessness about letting the guy go when you pay his bail).
2. The Alik'r are sharing a cave with some bandits who are ostensibly getting paid to guard them. Does their choice of guards cast suspicion on their nature? Having said that, from dialogue between the bandits, it seems that they do not trust each other and keep separate anyway. It could just be that the bandits were cheap.

Kematu telling the truth

1. The first time you talk to Saadia, she pulls a knife on you. While this may seem like an act of desperate defiance, it may hint at a violent and unpredictable personality.
2. Saadia seems hesitant to explain the full situation, while Kematu elaborates on it fully. Is Saadia's reticence due to her guilt?
3. The man you can free from jail seems strangely honourable, saying he has shamed his companions and wants to begin anew.
4. If Kematu really was an assassin, why paralyse her at the end of the quest - why not just stab her and be done with it? He also mentions justice, and taking her into custody, and implies that Saadia will face a trial back in Hammerfell rather than swift execution. All this points to him and his warriors being enforcers rather than assassins.
5. Kematu's opening line - "We can avoid any more bloodshed." And his closing lines which infer that Saadia is known for her manipulation of people.

I eventually sided with Kematu. The above factors swung it for me, and also he seemed somehow more eloquent and trustworthy. As he says, "Don't allow yourself to be fooled by a pretty face - you're better than that!"

I hope my analysis helps others make their own minds up - and please, if you sided with Saadia instead, post your thoughts on the matter and what swayed your opinions. I think it's an interesting quest as there's no clearly defined right or wrong option, and since you'll never really see the final resolution, you can never be sure that you did the right thing...

Another note: purely in terms of loot, I think siding with Saadia is the best option. Scimitars and the cool Hammerfall Garb can be looted from the Alik'r, and Kematu has a fair bit of gold on him too. I don't know if this is the only chance you'll have to get the Hammerfall garb, so if you're a completionist, you may wish to take Saadia's word for it. Chiliflamingo 22:56, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

It's possible to sneak attack one of the Alik'r to take the clothing and weaponry if that is all you're after and want to side with the Alik'r during the quest.

Or just follow them after they harass someone. They aren't tough and the first bad-guy will kill at least one of them. Then just loot the body. Philbert 23:53, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Good points...I agree and followed the same path in my play-through. Because the "correct result" is so ambiguous I was thinking this quest will probably come back later in the game with whichever side you choose affecting the story somehow.178.239.51.80 00:06, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

btw, i just found out that you can also buy the hammerfall garb from the clothes shop in solitude too --Chiliflamingo 22:46, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

I firmly believe that Kematu is telling the truth for one reason, although it may be a case of my lack of knowledge of Elder Scrolls Lore. The in game book "The Great War" http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Great_War refers to Alik'r warriors harassing the Aldermi Dominion forces as they retreated. This would make the dominion hiring them most strange. It is then important to consider this: Is hiring Redgaurd assassins the style of the Dominion? They have a certain level of free reign within the Empire. Why would they need to hire human assassins to kill someone? It is also important to consider that Hammerfell, upon seperating from the Empire, defeated the Aldermi Dominion and drove them from the country. How is speaking against a defeated enemy dangerous? This is akin to a British person speaking against the Third Reich after WWII and running out of fear. Finally I consider this: If she is a Noble in Hammerfell, a nation that, as previously mentioned, has defeated the Aldermi Dominion and Driven them from the country, how can they threaten her? Hammerfell has not accepted the White-Gold Concordat so the dominion does not have free reign to walk around arresting people (To be honest, I assume that the Second Treaty of Stros M'kai was in Hammerfell's favour. And how exactly is a noble better protected in a foreign country, under the proverbial thumb of their enemy who has free reign to roam the country and arrest undesirables. In said country without any guards I might add. How is this safer than in your homeland surrounded by, I assume family guards and supporters (as you are speaking out against a defeated enemy)

In short, her story does not add up for me. So I side with Kematu. -- Tom

I sided with Saadia, for the following reasons: if she was a noble, and is in hiding as an innkeeper's assistant, she obviously doesn't have that much money, meaning that her story of speaking out against the Thalmor collaborators has more merit. Furthermore, sowing internal strife within a people seems to be the Thalmor's preferred method: they used the Battleborns to kidnap that one Gray-Mane, they're using the Nords against each other in the civil war; why not have a corrupted Redguard noble hire some thugs to go kidnap someone from Skyrim, and bring them back to face some sort of kangaroo court? Even more telling, most of the Alik'r aren't renting rooms at a variety of inns, like upstanding citizens, but instead paying off some bandits. That money's just going to equip them better and end up hurting the common people of Skyrim. All that talk about them being honorable, too: sounds like they USED to be in the army in Hammerfell. Why aren't they now? Kematu raises a lot more questions than a simple woman hiding in an inn from at least a dozen men (Kematu, his five guards, the pair searching the city, the pair searching the countryside, the one in jail, and the one at the inn in Rorikstead) searching to kidnap her and take her Alessia knows where to do Stendarr knows what. 74.181.90.193 19:49, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Good job, I knew none of that! That reminds me, there's a book (Sands of the Alik'r?) that might add further light on the culture. I'm going to try and find it... --Chiliflamingo 18:59, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

But she isn't a simple Redguard woman and she does have a fair amount of money; if you ask her who she is in the first dialogue you have with her (during the quest), she says that she's a Redguard noble. As far as I know, the Battle-Borns weren't used to kidnap that Grey-Mane, that was just paranoia. I don't think that she even knew that the Thalmor were involved before you bring it up. They did rent rooms in Rorikstead; they weren't welcome in Whiterun for an undisclosed reason (it could be that Saadia payed off the guards...). Now, here's my main reason for trusting the Alik'r over Saadia: Saadia is far too quick to explain everything. And she seems almost uncertain in the telling; you'd think you'd remember the reason you're being chased across the land better. Instead, she goes with: "I don't know, I guess I spoke out against the Aldmeri dominion." Kematu's men refuse to explain the reason to you until Saadia is caught. This, to me, seems slightly shady, but more in the way that they don't want you taking their bounty than in the way that they're hiding something. After they catch her, Kematu explains the situation quickly and calmly, and even pays you a fairly large share of the earnings.

I don't know; Saadia seems far too shady to me.

Snowskeeper: Till Hell Freezes Over

I would like to share my two cents. The player has the ability to be the Thane of Whiterun, which is the town where you find Saadia. If she is indeed distrusting of the guard and the Jarl, why would she trust his Thane? Maybe it is also the fact you are the noble Dragonborn, quester extraordinaire; and thus she saw the player as a prime target for manipulation; but who knows? This reeks of her actually paying off the guard to keep the Alik'r out, paying off the Jarl to look the other way, and trying to pay his Thane to murder her would-be "assassins". Personally, I went with the Alik'r. Kematu's eloquence, and perceived honor made me more trusting of him. This may have been manipulation as well, but it helps when combined with the factors that make me distrust Saadia: She calls the Alik'r "assassins", but then goes on to say that they want to capture her to bring her back to Hammerfell for execution. As someone else has said, this would make them bounty hunters, not assassins. The first thing she did was bring me into a back room and pull a dagger on me; not a very trustworthy action. However, Kematu told his Alik'r warriors not to attack, instead wanting to speak with me, when they could have very well tried to killed me (and probably would have succeeded). And, finally, and by Talos the greatest idiosyncrasy with her story is that she's "running from the Thalmor". Why would she go to Skyrim, a place thoroughly under the Thalmor's thumb (Stormcloaks and minor civilian resistance notwithstanding), instead of going to or staying in Hammerfell, a place more or less free from the hand of the Thalmor? It seems very fishy. 98.91.28.45 00:08, 4 March 2012 (UTC) Allen Shepard

I think she's innocent, with 3 main points:

1) The timeline doesn't add up. Kematu says she sold out a city that led to it's fall, but Hammerfell pushed out the Dominion a good 20 years ago, going by the 3rd/4th era timeline on this site. That would mean the city fell, and was recaptured, at least 20 years ago. Using the high estimate (imo) of Saadia's age as 35, this would make her 15 at the oldest when she "sold out the city." Also, why would Kematu only be coming after her now, 20 years later?

2) Just because Hammerfell pushed back the Dominion 20 years ago, doesn't mean that their government is trying to become hostile with the Dominion at this time. they have had peace for 20 years after a tough war, and not all factions of their government would be pro war at this point. However, Saadia could have been a voice speaking out against the growing Dominion influence in other countries, arguing that a more aggressive stance should be taken against the Dominion. If this wasn't already the consensus in the Hammerfell government, the Dominion and their spies would want to quiet her as soon as possible.

3) It's obvious that Kematu and his men are thuggish mercenaries at best. They are clearly doing it for money, not for duty as an official Hammerfell task force would be.

I sided with Saadia because I like to be fooled by a pretty face :P 71.132.201.220 07:12, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad there is a discussion on the web about the ethical concerns of this quest. "The game" (rather, the quest writers) make it purposefully ambiguous. To me, the dialogue points at Saadia being guilty and Kematu being right : he could attack me, why offer me a deal instead ? I don't care that he's in a bandits cave, to me he's a Redguard so he knows what he's talking about at least just as well as Saadia does. Indeed Saadia's story is subject to being full of holes. What bugs me though is the quest name and the cave's name as well : "In my time of need" and "Swindler's cave". These strongly hint at Saadia being the good gal and Kematu and his men being the bad ones, as well as to me being the stupid or evil betrayer if I betray her. Knowing Bethesda's track record in Skyrim of deceiving and cornering the player into committing evil I don't know if I'll complete this quest at all, like many other ones I've left hanging for this motive. I don't want to betray the beautiful woman if there is a chance she's right. I would need further confirmation to decide. I had hoped her next dialogue would give me such an input but from reading these quest guides it seems there is none. So be it. Who cares about gold/items rewards anyway.78.127.21.72 19:26, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Although I sided with her, her dialog at the END of the quest points to her, perhaps, having conned you quite a bit all along, as she rewards you with "some of the wealth she managed to smuggle out" and her eyes, I swear to Akatosh, actually narrowed like Disney villainess' eyes would when her plan comes together (See Maleficent, Ursula, etc). I still feel like I made the best choice I could by siding with her, but her voice acting leaves it really ambiguous even if you do side with her. 74.181.90.193 05:45, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

The fact the Alik'r aren't allowed in the city is a strong sign they are operating under an official capacity. There are Redguards in every single city in Skyrim, so very clearly the Alik'r aren't being barred solely for their race. If they weren't operating officially, it would be very easy, at a minimum for one to walk in not dressed like an Alik'r, if only to confirm Saadia is not there. One of them does try to sneak in, but it isn't clear if he has any actual order to do so or is being overzealous. The Redguards and Nords are almost never on good terms, so barring official representatives from Whiterun is not an unusual thing.

One thing of note about the bandits they hired to protect them. The guard at the entrance has a much higher tolerance for how close the player can be before attacking. Could be an indication that they aren't quite the same level of average bandits in terms of actions. In addition, there have been neutral and, to some extent, good bandits and former bandits in the Elder Scrolls series, so just being a bandit does not automatically make you a murderous cur.

Saadia's refusal to talk to the Jarl is also pretty weak. If the Alik'r were only mercenaries, they would probably give up almost immediately, even if there was the possibility of bribing guards to let them in the city. Tangling with a Jarl over a bounty just doesn't make a lot of sense. However, if Saadia was a traitor, it would be very, very easy for the Kematu to request the Jarl keep her in Whiterun until official confirmation comes from Hammerfall. Just confirming Saadia was in the city was sufficient for that to occur.

Saadia very, very clearly lies multiple times when explaining the situation. Kematu doesn't say anything that can be confirmed to be a lie with any in game material. Neither of them has any incentive to lie to the player unless they are the ones on the wrong side of the issue.

Setting up an ambush to kill Saadia would have been extremely easy for the Alik'r, but they disable her in public instead.

Also Kematu says that you have proven yourself as a warrior. This infers the bandits might have been hired more as a front and to allow for people unrelated to be killed instead of his warriors. This again show that Kematu is most likely telling the truth in this matter.

It's been a while now, but I did this quest twice with different characters, so I'm pretty sure I heard it right: When Saadia explains the situation, she first calls the Alik'r "assassins" but then says that they want to take her back for execution. That would make them bounty hunters, not assassins. It could just be a bit of hyperbole or confused terminology on her part, but it strikes me as the kind of minor inconsistency that I've noted before when people try to lie to you in Bethesda games. 157.234.254.24 18:23, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Girl is telling the truth

Think of it this way.

Aldmeri Dominion took over Hammerfell. They are still in power.

[TOM M - Actually, they are not - the Redguards fought the Thalmor to a standstill and Aldmeri forces then withdrew, leaving Hammerfell free of Aldmeri rule and influence. I like your reasoning though. That makes Saadia almost certainly the guilty party, for she seeks to hide from the 'Aldmeri Dominion' anywhere BUT the one place (Hammerfell) where it has no influence].

She is indeed a princess as accounted by both parties. Who's story makes the most sense considering these fact?

The defense she uses for herself is as follows:

She was outspoken against the Aldmeri Dominion and Hammerfell was overcome. Now they are trying to capture her for interrogation purposes in order to route out other dissidents.

(Please provide a source as to where and how Hammerfell was overcome. Last I checked the in game book "The Great War" states that shortly after the War Hammerfell pushed the Domionion out)

My take? If she was guilty, she would not have to run. She would have continued living her cushy princess life while the Dominion occupied Hammerfell.

The Dominion has all the GOLD to sustain a manhunt in order to find her. FURTHERMORE! IF HE* was telling the truth, SHOULDN'T THE RESOURCES OF THE RESISTANCE GO TOWARDS FIGHTING THE ALDMERI?

[What resistance? Again, people, Hammerfell is not Skyrim. Read "The Great War" The Redgaurds sort of beat up the Dominion and forced them out of Hammerfell. What exactly are they resisting? That's like refering to the "French Resistance" that existed in 1970 (I.E Several decades after driving the Germans out)

To have any position otherwise is completely absurd. She is innocent. Even if she is guilty, the people after her are IDIOTS for doing so. They are wasting materials, manpower, wealth, & time. They should be focused on the Aldmeri Dominion occupation.

[What occupation? They forced the Aldmeri Dominion out via The Second Treaty of Stros Makai]

His attack: She sold out Hammerfell to the Aldmeri Dominion. He is hunting her down for reasons to do with "Justice".

ARE, YOU, SERIOUS!!?!?!?!

In war, there is no justice. There are only threats that need to be removed. PERIOD. Justice is an impractical reason to assassinate someone. It's more religious/emotional in nature than it is political/intelligent....and we all know how calculating those elitist High Elves are.

REAL WORLD POLITICS is where threats are REMOVED/ELIMINATED.

The Aldmeri motives for assassinating her are simple: She must be silenced. She is of noble blood and must not be given the opportunity to negotiate an alliance with Skyrim forces in order to liberate HammerFell.

[I'm going to ask the obvious question here... Everyone keeps talking about the "Occupation" in Hammerfell and an alliance with Skyrim Forces (In spite of the fact that it is Imperial Controlled and she is living in an Imperial Controlled city) in order to "Liberate" Hammerfell.... Obvious question here.....

LIBERATE HAMMERFELL FROM WHOM? You guys are all aware that Hammerfell sort of beat the Aldmeri Dominion forcing them to sign the second treaty of Stros'Makai (or however it is spelled) forcing the Dominion out of Hammerfell? What is she running from? The Aldmeri Dominion who don't have any power within her country? And how is she safer in Skyrim where the Dominion gets to run around arresting people because shut up and stop asking questions. How is this SAFER than a country that they were pushed out of? That is why her story doesn't add up]

In counter-point She is no harm to the Hammerfell Resistance that the Assassins claim to be AT ALL. The majority of Nords are actually quite RACIST towards elves...she couldn't persuade them to support the Aldmeri Dominion even if she was the wildest whore of the north!

FURTHERMORE!!!!!!!!! He talked about her trying to appeal to my sense of honor and greed....HE TALKS ABOUT "JUSTICE" AND OFFERS ME MONEY!!!! Talk about a flaming hypocrite.

I rest my case.

Hammerfell defeated the Aldmeri Dominion and is now an area seperate from the Empire and the High Elves.RIM 11:00, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

It is nowhere near as black and white as you say it is, I think the topic below puts it better (though still misses a few points). You seem to lack understanding of justice and the symbolic power of punishment. You're even self-contradictory... It is the norm to capture political enemies alive when possible, rather than killing them on the spot. Also, Six guys are no big resource drain, and if she's a noble, she could well have more critical information to sell to the Aldimeri Dominion.--Liudeius 16:17, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Alik'r warriors claim that they have a bounty letter on her head so I killed them all yet none of them had it, also if it was a real bounty wouldn't this had been brought to the jarl who would try and help the men out ? Rather than trying to force themselves in and search the entire village.

Sure the woman seems suspicious but what about the Alik'r hiring and working with bandits and thugs ("What comes around goes around") which proves that they're going a hellova wrong way to take care of this matter, also even the bandits are scared of the Alik'r warriors. --K

Why Saadia is probably guilty

For Saadia:

Saadia may not be guilty because:

• If Saadia did betray Hammerfell to the Dominion, wouldn't she be safe living in a Dominion controlled city? She has little motivation to live in Whiterun if she's guilty. [TOM M - she does if shes fleeing angry Redguards who kicked the Aldmeri out of Hammerfell, no thanks to her]
  • Hammerfell defeated the Dominion. If she's not guilty, wouldn't she be safe if she moved back to Hammerfell? [TOM M - yes, ergo, she is guilty]
  • She could still be spying for the Dominion in Whiterun. [TOM M - then she is guilty]

Against Saadia:

Saadia may be unlawful because:

• She takes you a secluded place and pulls a dagger on you when she first meets you.
  • This might be justified since she claimed that she thought you were hired by the Alik'r as an assassin.
• She is reluctant to speak with the guards about her problem.
  • This may be justified since she claims the Alik'r could bribe the Jarl or the guards.
    • If her claim is true, why don't the Alik'r bribe the Jarl (or guards) to gain access to the city and then kill her themselves?
    • If her claim is true, why did the guards refuse to let the arrested Alik'r leave even after the player paid his fine? It seems the guards might be racist or biased against the Alik'r.
      • As evidenced by the bias/racism against the Alik'r Prisoner, they may have already tried bribing the guards, who took the bribe but did nothing. She wouldn't know either of these things. ?• JA^Talk
• She asks you to kill Kematu. If he is an assassin, wouldn't the guards want to arrest him if the player captured him? If Saadia is really an innocent noble, wouldn't she be safe in Hammerfell if the player helped her go there?
  • Clearly, she is being pursued all the way across Skyrim, so being closer to her enemies would not help her case. Even if she fled to safety and managed to tell her story, whatever corrupt element within the government is pursuing her would manage to kill her, perhaps by poisoning her food. ?• JA^Talk

Saadia may be lying because:

• She claims to be in hiding because she opposed the Aldmerri Dominion in Hammerfell, but Hammerfell won the war against the Dominion and became an independent state. Since the Dominion has been removed from Hammerfell, why does she need to hide in Whiterun?
  • Perhaps she is wanted for a different reason?
• She seems reluctant to fully explain the situation. Is this because her story is full of holes?
• She told the player that an Alik'r had been arrested, and told the player to speak with the Alik'r to find out where Kematu was. How did Saadia know that the Alik'r had been arrested if she doesn't want to talk with the guards?
  • Whiterun has a fairly small population, plus she works in a tavern, so she would've been one of the first to hear about his arrest. • JA^Talk
  • Not only that, but when u meet her and tell her they are looking for her she acts as if she is surprised that they have already reached whiterun, but a second later she tells you she knows the guards put one of the Alik'r in jail... i thought she didn't even know they were here! 85.64.136.23 08:59, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
• Like another evil woman that seduce's men to reach evil purposes (Alva, the vampire plotting to enslave the entire city of Morthal), Saadia say sometimes at the first random dialog with player (when you are playing male characters): "How are you doing handsome?".

For the Alik'r:

The Alik'r may not be assassins because:

• The player sees a guard arguing with two Alik'r in Whiterun. If the Alik'r were lawless assassins, why didn't the guards arrest both of them?
  • Because the guards didn't know. Guards are aware that you are aligned with the Dark Brotherhood and the Thieves Guild (if you are) but they don't act on it.
• The Alik'r do not ask the player to kill Saadia. They only ask the player to help capture her.
  • This could be a clever ruse to trick the player into helping them catch Saadia, make her helpless, and then kill her easily.
• When Saadia is turned over to Kematu, he uses a spell to paralyze her. If he is an assassin, why not just kill her?
  • This could be a clever plan to avoid unnecessary conflict with the player, in order to easily kill Saadia later.
• If you kill Saadia near the stables when Kematu is present, he complains that all his work went to waste. Rynalos 03:24, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
  • He may have been planning on killing her in a particular place/way. He may also still be lying, to convince the player up to the very end that he is telling the truth. ?• JA^Talk

The Alik'r may not be lying because:

• Kematu is willing to tell the whole story, and he doesn't say anything provably false.
  • He could've just created a very elaborate lie.

Against the Alik'r:

The Alik'r may be unlawful because:

• The Alik'r hired bandits to protect them and chose to live in Swindler's Cave.
  • This may be justified since Nords do not give jurisdiction to officials from Hammerfell to conduct searches in Nord cities.
• One of the Alik'r was arrested in Whiterun.
  • This may be irrelevant since the arrested Alik'r says he has shamed his companions, implying that he acted against the wishes of the other Alik'r.
    • It's also possible that the shame was due to getting caught, rather than because he feels he did anything wrong.

Conclusion

The strongest argument against Saadia is her own claim that she doesn't want to speak with the guards because she's worried that they or the Jarl might be bribed by the Alik'r. However, the player sees a guard arguing with the Alik'r and forcing them to leave the city. When the player pays the fine for an arrested Alik'r, the guards refuse to let the Alik'r go. This suggests that the guards are biased against the Alik'r. Crucially, Saadia was the one who told the player about the arrested Alik'r in the first place. This shows that she knows the guards are willing to arrest the Alik'r, and it also suggests that she might be a liar. How would she know that the Alik'r had been arrested if she's trying to hide and doesn't want to speak to the guards? She seems fairly safe in Whiterun since the guards appear to be protecting her, so why does she ask the player to kill Kematu?

If anyone has anything to add to my summary or conclusion, please do so. Just add your signature after each paragraph or point in your contributions so that other readers can easily identify which items you added. -67.249.203.18 19:30, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

"How would she know that the Alik'r had been arrested if she's trying to hide and doesn't want to speak to the guards?" Maybe cause she's living in a, idono, tavern ? ;) --K

Added my 2¢ ?• JA^Talk 02:56, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I killed her accidentally during the stables

I usually run around with several fire shields on my gear (modded), normally it only burns people that have engaged combat with me. If I'm in a dungeon it just melts through stuff.

After taking her to the stables when I completed the dialogue after she was poisoned and I got my reward, my shields killed her and he started walking away. I didn't know she was dead yet and after finding out I could loot her corpse I discovered what happened. I quickly caught up and he said "After all that work, you killed her? It was all for nothing" or something very close to that.

I personally think she was so hard to find they had to hire people that could be assassins, but they were doing a job that was noble. I honestly don't know still.

Killed both after siding with Keematu and leading her to the stables. Ethical problem solved ;) 132.203.168.140 18:45, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

They are both lying.

I have come to a new conclusion based on the timeline. Both parties are lying. They know quite well how the people of the Empire feel about the Dominion and are taking advantage of that (and your characters stupidity) in order to sway your emotions to their side.

Why I believe this?

Let's take a look at the time line.

The Dominion drove the Thalmor out of Hammerfell in 4E 180. So it is unlikely a city was recently betrayed to the Thalmor, if they were still trying to conquer Hammerfell directly we'd hear more about it. 180 is 21 years before Skyrim occurs. How old would you say Sadria is? 20? 25? I'd say 30 max.

So... did she betray the city when she was ten? What did she overhear her daddy say something and give over the information for candy? The other obvious question arises. In both cases. How long has she been on the run? This is 20 years ago. Hammerfell ain't that far from Skyrim. What has she just been sitting there for 20 god damned years? And Kematu and his "Elite" men haven't found her in 20 years? I suspect you'd bloody well give up chase after 20 YEARS! (Honestly, we might as well call them Sadria Valjean and Inspector Javmetu)

No, I have come to the conclusion that the truth has absolutely nothing to do with The Aldmeri Dominion. Hell, I bet it isn't even as romantic as they make it sound. I doubt she is even a noble and I doubt that they are elite assassins. More like some street kid and the drooling thugs of a crime boss. Who are just smart enough to know that the denizens of the Empire hate the Thalmor and take advantage of a fellow they see as a local idiot making you believe that it is a big, noble and elite assassin filled plot involving the Thalmor.

My bet? Sadria is a pick pocket, stole money from a gang leader, ran off with it, and Kematu was sent after her for it.

Why? BECAUSE IF IT INVOLVES THE THALMOR AND BETRAYAL DURING THE WAR A) THEY ARE BOTH OLDER THAN THEY LOOK B) KEMATU CAN CHASE SOMEONE AROUND ONE OR TWO COUNTRIES FOR 20 SOMETHING YEARS! - Tom

Actually that's a very good point about the timeline. However, age is pretty hard to gauge. People in Skyrim are either short Nord/Breton kids, old wrinkly elders, or adults that cover everything in between. If she is in her 40s (which is entirely possible), then that means she would've been around 20, which makes it definitely possible that she did offend someone.

As for staying in hiding, I see two different possibilities. One: She kept a very good cover. If she was royalty, then they may've spent their time searching in the wrong places, not suspecting that she would stoop so low as to become a barmaid. Two: She made the betrayal long ago, but it was only recently discovered, meaning she's been on the run for a short while. Also, you assume that Kematu has been on her tail the entire time. Perhaps she disappeared, and they only just sent out the assassins after discovering her general location.

Another possibility is that you're right, she was 10 at the time, but perhaps her parents betrayed them, and they are just being ruthless in extinguishing the blood line.

Your hypothesis about Saadria being a pickpocket is possible, but how is it then that both her and Kematu managed to come up with stories about her being a noble being persecuted for political reasons? Too big of a conicidence for me. ?• JA^Talk 03:09, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Approaching Kematu as a werewolf

I'm not sure if this should be noted, but if you approach Kematu and his men as a werewolf, they will not attack you unless you attack them first. This allows you to transform back and speak to him. Evlydia 06:22, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

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