Skyrim talk:One-handed/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:One-handed discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Hack and Slash

Anything new on Hack and Slash? 81.233.217.129 12:51, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

I noticed that using fortify one handed does not effect dagger damage but does work for axe/sword. I was wondering if that is a bug in the game or intentional. I think the second one because with dark brotherhood gear I get x30 for sneak attacks and was hoping to boost that to even more ridiculous levels of damage--Lord.Baal 02:49, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

It's Intentional. Sneak raises dagger usage. Daggers are not meant for combat. --Shm0key 15:29, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Can someone definitively confirm that daggers benefit from Armsman, but not from increasing the One Handed skill itself? If One Handed indeed does NOT contribute to dagger damage, does Sneak fill that role, or is governing skill value completely left out of the damage equation for daggers? 166.182.3.156 07:30, 26 November 2011 (UTC) Garm

Daggers actually do benefit from increasing the One-Handed skill, but they do not benefit from Fortify One-Handed effects. I just tested this with the console and by applying both a potion and a ring. Neither Sneak itself nor Fortify Sneak effects give any direct bonus to dagger damage. --Mef 03:34, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Added Weapons Pros and Cons List

I've added a few bullets to the Notes section stating the Pros and Cons of each one-handed weapon. Feel free to edit it as necessary, especially with the ones with (?) next to them.--Shm0key 18:51, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

dual wielding speed

noticed that the dual wielding speed is based on the left handed weapon. if you wield a mace in the left hand the dual attack will be much slower then if you wield a dagger. i don't really know how to edit that into the page and more research in the subject is still neccesery

Confirmed on PC: the Flurry perk will NOT work with dagger/dagger.

-What method did you use to test it?

Some practical testing on my behalf, regarding the "dagger dual wield" and left hand weapon questions (and to generally check speeds when dual wielding):
L: Left Weapon, R: Right Weapon = Left hand swings/minute, Right hand swings/minute, Dual Flurry perk (2) Left, Right.
L: Dagger, R: Dagger = 80, 90 DF: ≈106, ≈122 <-- Dual Flurry DOES affect daggers.
L: Dagger, R: Sword = 80, 70
L: Dagger, R: Axe = 80, 63
L: Dagger, R: Mace = 80, 57
L: Sword, R: Dagger = 62, 90
L: Sword, R: Sword = 62, 70
L: Sword, R: Axe = 62, 63
L: Sword, R: Mace = 62, 57
L: Axe, R: Dagger = 56, 90
L: Axe, R: Sword = 56, 70
L: Axe, R: Axe = 56, 63
L: Axe, R: Mace = 56, 57
L: Mace, R: Dagger = 50, 90
L: Mace, R: Sword = 50, 70
L: Mace, R: Axe = 50, 63
L: Mace, R: Mace = 50, 57 DF: ≈67, ≈76
Skyrim PC 1.1.21.0
Jikuu 05:26, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for testing and verifying this conflict over daggers and such. ("It seems this damnable conflict has..." ~ Farengar Secret-Fire) --Shm0key 03:26, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

@Jikuu: Did you perform the above test by smashing both right & left buttons simultaneously, or by holding both down?

I think there's some confusion here between the following:

• Dual wielding, the state of having a weapon in each hand.
• Dual attack, the action of clicking both mouse buttons at the same time to attack with both weapons at the same time.
• Dual Flurry, the perk.

The data above shows that Dual Flurry affects single attacks.

Will test shortly.

--Evil4Zerggin 18:04, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Confirmed:

• Dual attack speed is based on the left-hand weapon.
• Dual Flurry affects both single and dual attacks when dual-wielding.

--Evil4Zerggin 18:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Also, attack speed does not appear to depend on the weight of the weapon. --Evil4Zerggin 01:38, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

While this may be true, some weapons do have a slower attack speed. For example, swords are faster than axes and axes are faster than maces. That said, an iron sword isn't going to be faster than a daedric sword even though it is a lot lighter. It will be faster than a daedric axe, but this is because it is a sword. Weight plays a factor in stamina cost of power attacks, so a power attack with an iron sword will be much less than with a daedric sword. Also, right hand attacks are always faster than left hand attacks. This is most likely done through a simple speed bonus to the right hand and modifies the speed of the weapon being used in that hand - the data above supports this. Wielding a sword in the left hand and an axe in the right will show this, especially when you switch hands and observe a noticeable speed difference. -Kastagir 20:07, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Ebony dagger has a slower speed than other daggers.It has the same speed with a sword(60/min in L hand and 70/min in R hand),maybe a bug.(test in PC) And Dual Flurry DON'T affect dual wielding power attack speed when use daggers in both hands.It means you can use dual wielding power attack much more faster with a sword/axe/mace in the R hand and a dagger in the L hand than use two daggers in both hands.

Recap

Got very confused with the above so did some experimenting. Things that need to be mentioned for the next guy that's going to break his head with this: There are 3 "modes" of attack when holding a weapon in each hand -

a. By triggering one hand (right or left button, pressed separately) each time. This is the same as if you were using, say, a 1H weapon and shield. Doesn't matter if you always do same one or alternate. Attack speed: depending on weapon (daggers fastest, then swords, then axes, then maces). Your mace hand will be SLOW. Damage: as per the weapon you're swinging. 1H Skill point gain from doing this: yep.

b. By triggering both hands together with a single momentary click (repeat many times). This will cause you to perform a flurry attack, and since you're here, is probably what you are looking for.

Attack speed: Determined by weapon in LEFT hand (dagger fastest, mace slowest), and not the same as method a above for the same weapon. So L:dagger/R:dagger all the way through L:dagger/R:mace swing equally-(very)-fast. My testing (and re-testing and re-re-testing) suggests weapon in right hand doesn't affect speed at all. Hell, you can flurry a moose in your right hand like it was a dagger. Testing was done with daedric dagger & dardric mace.

This is the attack whose speed is (very noticeably) impacted by the dual flurry perk.

Damage (important!): This attack has both weapons connect at once, doing combined (added; double if weapons are same) damage from both. So if you're running DPS math comparing regular 1H swings to these attacks, remember each attack here does the job of two regular 1H attacks! Remember to multiply by 2 where appropriate.

1H skill points gained: yep.

c. By holding down both right and left, creating a dual-flurry power attack (four rapid swings). Attack Speed: Cute, but not all that good when you consider the power-attack charging time between each such maneouver. 1H skill points gained: nope. It's a power-attack. If you want your 1H to level, steer clear of using this extensively.

I believe the winning combo here is method b above, using L:Daedric-dagger/R:Daedric-mace (each smithed to legendary and double-enchanted to also do fire & shock damage; with four DESTRUCTION buffs on your armor making the weapon charges endless).

Despite swinging at the same speed there are some differences to dagger/mace and dagger/dagger:

Upside of L:dagger/R:mace combo:

• The extra weapon damage the mace can deliver.
• (I think that) your reach is that of the mace rather than that of the dagger. You don't need to be kissing that giant's belly-button to hit it.

Downsides:

• You need to switch to an alternate gear set when you want your x30 backstab damage (that's x15 dagger; x2 shrouded gloves).
• There are really awesome animations for both fatal-kills and stealth cut-throat-from-behind kills using 2 daggers. There aren't any for dagger/mace.
• Lugging around the mace chews up more of your backpack capacity.
• If you accidentally miss clicking both buttons together and let off a one-handed attack with the mace, it'll be a slow one.

Pick your poison. — Unsigned comment by Oripash (talk • contribs) on January 15, 2012 16:35

The definitive answer to dagger question

I'm still not sure just what exactly daggers and other one-handed weapons benefit from and I read conflicting reports all around the wiki. There are even conflicting reports on this very discussion page. So far all I can say for sure is that daggers do not benefit from:

• One-Handed skill level
• Sneak skill level
• Any weapon effect that fortifies One-Handed skill level
• Bladesman

However does that mean that other one handed weapons do benefit from having higher skill level and +fortify One-Handed? I was under the impression that the skill level itself did nothing and the damage increase was only possible with Armsman perk. If someone could test it properly and end the issue once and for all that would be great 178.183.243.196 06:38, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

• I can verify that all one handed weapons besides daggers do benefit from fortify one-handed. I use +80% one handed with waraxe's and it almost doubles the attack (80%). It seems to only not increase dagger damage. I can also verify that daggers can use some one handed perks, as I use them to decapitate enemies as often as possible--Lord.Baal 00:41, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Daggers DO benefit from the perk Armsman. --Shm0key 05:50, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I was speaking to the enchantment effect fortify one-handed, I made no mention of the perk armsman--Lord.Baal 22:52, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

From direct testing by repeated use of the console command player.setav:

• modifying the one-handed skill level affects dagger damage as displayed in the inventory menu; it also affects the displayed damage for every other one handed weapon (as expected).
• modifying the sneak skill level does not affect any damage rating in the inventory menu.

From direct testing by use of potions:

• fortify one-handed does not increase dagger damage, though it does increase the damage of every other one handed weapon.
• fortify sneak does not increase damage for any weapon.

From direct testing with the console commands player.addperk and player.removeperk:

• armsman increases the damage rating for both daggers and other melee weapons.

From direct testing by playing a thief for 40 levels of gameplay or so:

• bladesman (the perk that gives a critical chance with swords) does not apply to daggers, as never did the Critical Hit message appear - though it does occasionally appear when I switch to a sword.

--Mef 14:05, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Mef for taking the time to test all that out. --Kratch 21:37, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

          ** Important (likely bug) update: the Fortify Marksman alchemy effect applies to dagger damage. I just used a potion of fortify marksman + 130% 
             and it increased the displayed damage of my Daedric Dagger from 117 to 270. If a registered user would like to test and confirm this I would be interested in the results.**

Confirmed. Oddly, the equipment version of the enchantment doesn't seem to affect the damage. --Evil4Zerggin 05:54, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

How about Fighting Stance, Savage Strike, Critical Charge and Paralyzing Strike. Do they work with dagger(s). And do Dual Savergy interact with dual wield dagger power attacks - or maybe more important - with dual wield daggers sneak attacks? --X 192.36.187.189 13:05, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Fighting stance brought the stamina consumption of standing power attacks from an Elven Dagger (superior) from 48 to 36. Savage Strike increased the damage, though all the weapons I tested (Elven Dagger (superior), Mace of Molag Bal, Nightingale Blade) never beheaded the opponent. The problem is likely in the method of testing, unless this is a known bug. Critical Charge made the "Critical Strike" message appear, but it did not increase damage. This was true for all the three weapons mentioned, so once again I cannot tell whether this is just a dagger-related issue or not. Paralyzing Strike did give the paralysis effect with backwards power attacks done with the dagger. Dual Savagery increased the damage on a power attack from a virtuous glass dagger+elven dagger (superior) combo, both during regular and sneak attacks; the increase during sneak attacks was indeed +50%, meaning that it stacks multiplicatively with sneak attack modifiers. --Mef 19:46, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, this helped me quite a bit. It should find its way onto the main page in a prominent way. --188.100.156.136 21:22, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Savage Strike

What does decapitating enemy (I assume only works on humans and biological humanoids) really do? Does it prevent reviving the dead body, or more like an instant kill? 173.236.136.13 01:29, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

It appears that decapitation does in fact prevent reviving as a zombie, yes. Tested using a high powered scroll and a group of Thugs - All the bodies could be raised except the headless, without giving the "so-and-so is too powerful" error message, however, it did fling the body to amusing hights. While interesting, this probably isn't too useful as decapitation is fairly random, and usually happens too far away from the next combat to matter, enemy-wise, though it could hinder a PC spellsword who wanted a buddy to follow them for a bit. Just some trivia about Savage Strike - The heads are much harder to move than bodies, which are already clunky. This is probably to counter using body parts as mobile containers in dungeons, something easily exploitable in Oblivion (e.g. skeleton bones; leaving one at the entrance, and carrying the other around with the grab key). -- Highyena 16:31, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

As far as the instant kill, it seems the main advantage of Savage Strike is the damage bonus and little else. The decap effect is essentially a "bonus" animation for the cinematic final kill of a fight, though this could use more conclusive verification. Primarily a dual-wielder, I've liberated somewhere between 100 and 200 heads, and I can't remember a single time it has happened on anyone but the last target, and always when their health was low enough to invite the glorious death sequence as per normal. My guess is its entire purpose is to make you feel awesome. -- Highyena 16:43, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I could have sworn there was a "Heads decapitated" counter in the General Stats, under Combat, but now I can't find such. Am I crazy, blind, or did a sneaky patch remove this? -- Highyena 16:47, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Err, i slew a bear with a finishing move and its head rolled off after i heard a loud crack when the sword went through its neck...So i think that not only humanoids can have their body-parts dis-jointed(Someone confirm please?)- Azurome 05:35, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

It seems plausible, from a technical standpoint, bears are humanoid (two legs, two arms, one head, nothing extra) just with a different animation class. The resource certainly exists, evidenced by being bodyless bear heads mounted on things, so at the very least the artists created lone heads (whether or not without the mounting wood backing, I can't say). However, I tested this by saving by a bear and reloading fifty times. 95% of the time, it animated various executions, but never a beheading. Considering I rarely see anything but beheadings on human-types since taking Savage Strike, but never once against the bear, I'm going to opt for either "no", or I'm just very unlucky. Anyone else? If I were to guess, I'd suspect every creature type has its own list of execution animations, since the finishers for a wolf are different than a bear, which would make sense due to size and shape - I can't remember ever doing the kick-up, slam-down kill on the bear, which is very common (always?) for the much smaller wolves. -- Highyena 19:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I was able to decapitate a giant before installing the day one patch and now it seems to never happen. I have decapitated a sabre tooth tiger though.RIM 19:09, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

It's very likely a glitch from patching, the more I think about it - I never see anything but decaps on humans anymore, which should still cycle the other types on occasion, likely in the same order that some dialog options break others from ever appearing from NPCs related to multiple quests and activities. Instead of grabbing a random kill, it always chooses the same headlop for me, in the case of men. It should be noted, that if every creature shape does subscribe to its own sets in animations, being humanoid wouldn't necessarily need apply - anything with a head the artists decided to set up for such and animated would work. I can't recall seeing anything anywhere that actually states "humanoids only". -- Highyena 19:22, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Kind of strage,I seem to get a good variety of kill animations. Maybe otherthings come into play such as how much damage should have been done to the target as it was nearly dead. For example, if a target has only a tiny amount of HP left and you use use a quick slash a certain animation plays but if that same target is killed by a huge power attack it will play a full cutscene animation. Just a thought though...RIM 19:32, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Possibly, though in my testing, I used all sorts of attacks, a sword with less than 20 damage, one with 80, and another with well over 100. Slashing wrecklessly had the same results as power strikes. I also tried a mace and axe with high damage as well. The bear did alternate between two deaths, just never a decapitation. As such as glitches are, it might also be a platform dependant issue - I'm using an XBox. -- Highyena 19:44, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Decapitation can only happen if you have the perk and you would have killed the opponent with your attack normally. There is then a small percentage that you will perform a decapitation finishing move. The damage bonus this perk confers is really the only benefit you will receive - there is no chance of an "instant kill." Any one-strike kills that you observe that end in a decapitation would be one-strike kills due to the damage dealt with the damage bonus of this perk. Don't be deceived into thinking that the decapitation finishing move has any effect on damage dealt because it doesn't. It happens after the fact. Kastagir 20:20, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

I have been using savage strike for about 50 kill animations and I have never seen a decapitation. I use a single dagger and a spell in the other hand. I got this purely for the glory of removal of heads and I can't seem to get it to happen. Can it only be done with two daggers?

Leveling One-Handed

I've been wondering what the mechanics are as far as leveling one-handed, because I'm at close to 80 skill now and it goes ridiculously slow. The thing is, I can either use my two maxed out swords that do 400 damage each, which would kill things in one hit, meaning I'd have to go traveling a whole lot to level this skill. Or, I could simply use an iron dagger which only does 10 damage.

So the question is, is leveling based on damage done, or on number of hits?

I did some testing on a dragon with an iron dagger, and it appears that leveling is most likely done by number of hits. Can anyone confirm? Darktangent 15:29, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I've tested that with a two-handed mace in the past and, at least for two-handed, the amount of experience gained did not increase by doing a power attack (which did considerably more damage than a base attack). It's reasonable for one-handed to follow a similar pattern. --Mef 16:09, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I just tested with my mage (One-handed Lvl 16) using an iron mace and an elven mace on one of the torture victims. I saved my game and then tried the iron mace. It took 8 hits to level up. I reloaded and tried the elven mace. It took 6 hits to level up. This result supports the hypothesis that one-handed levels as a function of damage (or at least weapon quality) rather than number of hits. I did a similar experiment with two-handed weapons as well, with similar results (see the Two-handed talk page for details). 17:39, 19 December 2011 (PST)

My testing shows it is number of swings as sneak attacks still give 1-handed skill as well. I used shrouded gloves and did a sneak attack for 30x damage which if the theory that it was damage that gives skill would have given the same experience as 30 swings, this proved false 30 swings gave significantly greater experience. In conclusion it is swings that give the experience not damage.

To be conclusive, a further test would be to compare 30 swings to 30 sneak attacks (same weapon). If they both yield the same amount of XP, then we can conclusively state that the amount of total damage does not matter, though the base damage of the weapon itself does still seem to be a factor. I imagine this would best be tried during the tutorial where you can attack your buddy repeatedly.--SDShannonS 21:29, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

According to the Prima guide, it's damage done, minus any enchantments. On a hunch, I did some testing and concluded that the XP you get is based on the BASE weapon damage, not the modified weapon damage. So a legendary ebony sword and a normal ebony sword give the same amount of XP; a sneak attack and a normal attack give the same amount of XP; an ebony sword with +40% Fortify One-Handed gives the same amount of XP as the sword without the fortification; and so on. I have NOT determined whether the Armsman perks help or not, nor whether dual wielding identical weapons doubles the XP awarded. But based on my findings so far, the best thing to use to maximize leveling speed is an unimproved daedric dagger (fastest DPS, high base damage). — Unsigned comment by 71.131.15.109 (talk) at 01:45 on 28 December 2011

I agree, I did two tests with two glass daggers. One improved via smithing for a total of 64 damage. And one not improved with a base of 10 damage. I had nothing else improving one-handed, no enchants, potions, perks, nothing. I saved when I found a bandit in Volskygge. In both trials, my one-handed skill was at level 33 and about 75% of the way to 34. On my first trial, I took my improved glass dagger and hit the bandit three times. I went from about 75% to 90% experience in one-handed. On the second trial, I took my unimproved dagger and hit him 3 times. I again went from about 75% to 90% experience in one-handed. Mind you, the bandit in the second trial still had around 90% of his health, but in the first trial, he was nearly dead, with only about 20% of his health remaining. To conclude: if leveling one-handed was based on damage done at all, I should be hitting the jackpot with my improved glass dagger, since I'm doing nearly 6x more damage than my unimproved one. But I'm not, I'm getting nearly the same exact amount of experience in each trial. I also decided to do another test. On the first trial, I took my improved dagger and sneak-attacked the bandit, outright killing him on the spot. I reached about 80% experience. I then reloaded and struck the bandit regularly with my improved glass dagger. And again, I ended up about at the 80% experience mark. And just to put the nail in the coffin, I repeated both of these experiments a second time, doing the same thing in both trials and getting the exact same results. It's pretty clear, that at least in the case of improving a weapon's damage through smithing or sneak attacks, neither has any affect on improving experience gained. I would assume at this point that just about every form of damage-bonus has no affect on it, but I could be wrong. Aside from using an unimproved daedric dagger to level the skill, I would also recommend using the shout Elemental Fury to increase your attack speed in order to get the experience quicker.--69.205.180.81 05:21, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Dual-Wielding Section

There's enough info in notes about dual-wielding, that it may be a good idea to branch off into its own small section. -- Highyena 03:44, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

On a related note, can someone test to see if the triple dual-wielding power attack gives a damage bonus when there isn't enough stamina to last the full three strikes? It seems like it does, but verification would be nice. -- Highyena 03:47, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Seeing as the same anon who added the note about fully unarmed attacks benefiting from Dual Flurry and Dual Savagery, also just removed it, has it been disproven? Can someone verify this? Also, if unarmed does in fact use DF and DS, do you lose the advantage when using a torch? I'd assume it does drop it, since torches carry a shield quality - I'd also assume the same is true for a torch and weapon combo. -- Highyena 11:53, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Just straightening up loose ends so these don't appear unanswered. A, done. Thank you, Eddie for helping me on formatting. B, yes, so long as the stamina is high enough to start the attack, all hits do full damage. Stamina will end up in the negatives, taking longer to recover however. C, yes, both DS and DF effect punching, so long as both hands are empty (e.g. no magic on one, no torch, etc). -- Highyena 18:36, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

After a little testing I have concluded that the Dual Fury does not increase the rate of unarmed attacks. I did check number of swings per 30 seconds and it stays exactly same with and without Dual Fury(40 for right hand, 25 for left hand). 93.80.245.149 16:35, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Unarmed

Are unarmed strikes covered by the one-handed skill? I've noticed their power increasing over time, but never tested it.

No, the only way to increase the damage of unarmed is with the Heavy Armor perk Fists of Steel, however, this perk may be broken according to the Heavy Armor page (I haven't looked into why or how). Unarmed may benefit from Dual Savagery and Dual Fury, but I still need someone to verify this (I'm lazy and lack console commands to directly check NPC stats), and even then that'd only apply to speed and power attacks. At level 40 with 80-something skill in One-Hand, I still do 15 points per hit, or more directly, the same damage to a wolf as I did at the start. Unarmed definitely doesn't use Armsman (though it'd be fitting name-wise if it did, ha!) or any of the other perks. -- Highyena 14:37, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Just to make sure I wasn't talking out of my backside on this one, I started a new game, and smacked Ralof around for about ten minutes, without even a pixel of skill gain, considering you can grab the axe and hack at him until your skill is maxed, getting nothing for unarmed strikes seems pretty definitive that unarmed is unrelated. On the other hand, it does make me wonder if you get Heavy Armor skill points for using Fist of Steel, but that both unlikely, and a question for a different page. -- Highyena 15:06, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

You do not get Heavy Armor skill xp out of it.

daggers

Does the bladesman perk affect daggers? --Halfstache 03:35, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

No, only swords.RIM 15:26, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

One-Handed Wielding Styles

I added a section outlining wielding types with one handed, however, I realize it could use a little tiddy up, if anyone feels able. I'm updating from a cellphone browser, so it's too clunky and missing some functions. Also, feel free to add to, modify, debunk, etc. -- Highyena 11:43, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I removed "Can use poison on both weapons." because, from my experience you can only apply poison to the weapon in your right hand, i just tested it then, and the poison only got added to one weapon, and it only lets you apply one poison at a time, you could switch your weapons around in your inventory, but doing that every time you want poison would become tedious. Good work on it though. (Eddie The Head 11:54, 7 December 2011 (UTC))

It is a valid tactic and not tedious at all, at least, no more so than poisoning a single weapon. Your right, only the right hand weapon can be poisoned, and you can then switch hands and poison the second, as you mention. If you keep your poison and weapons in the favorite menu, this takes but seconds to do, and is extremely useful and viable against harder fights. Personally, I think it should be mentioned, since it is an advantage over a single weapon and offers an interesting way to overcome problem fights - the list is more about what you can do, not what's easy, but it's perfectly fine whether it stays or goes. -- Highyena 12:03, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

If you could possibly do me a quick favor, though, and remove some of the notes at the bottom that have become duplicated in the new section, that'd be swell. My cellphone is okay for adding things, not so good for removing. :) --Highyena 12:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I removed the duped notes, i left the one about perk numbers and all because that details it in one spot rather than spread through the section (Eddie The Head 12:18, 7 December 2011 (UTC))

Works for me, thanks! Maybe we can come to a compromise on the double poison ability if it also included a clever mention that it's potentially a pain to do? I admit it's not something I use a lot, but being able to put paralysis on one, and something else on the other has saved me several times, and it's actually more tedious to posion something, swing, and stop the flow of combat just to go posion it again with something else. Just a thought. -- Highyena 12:29, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Hows this: "Poison only gets applied to the weapon in your right hand, but you can poison both by switching the poisoned weapon to your left hand."? (Eddie The Head 12:39, 7 December 2011 (UTC))

Sounds like a perfectly good explanation, certainly clear enough that the talk page won't get nailed with a few "well how do I poison the other one?!"... Even though it still probably will, ha. Thanks! -- Highyena 12:49, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Looks much better with your formating. However, the note is there but the actual "pro" about dual poisoning is missing, leaving the note to appear odd without its intended context about what it's supposed to be referencing. -- Highyena 13:13, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

woops about the broken format, that was an accident... anyway i added "for a stronger effect" to it (Eddie The Head 13:18, 7 December 2011 (UTC))

Moving Style Section

Does anyone think moving the Style section and merging it with Skyrim:Combat makes more sense? I could go either way. It's fitting where it is, dealing primarily with the One-Handed skill, but would work just as well in Combat with a pointer link from this section. Thoughts? -- Highyena 18:45, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

The first thing I thought of the current (14 Dec.) format, too much "combat style FAQ". Imho the whole single vs. dual vs. shield etc belongs in a separate section, only specific one-handed-related things like swing speeds should stay. ~Z.W. 14 Dec 2011

Skyrim:Combat now has a full section about styles so this can be merged/removed. 178.183.219.87 20:38, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Peculiar sword damage behavior vs follower

Has anyone discovered the way by which sword damage is calculated? Since the latest patch (1.2?, as of 12/9) my follower lydia has suddenly come down with a case of dying easily to everything. I had forced her to properly level up by doing the disable/enable process every so often, and now she is level 50 (I am 53, I understand she can't level an further). According to getavinfo health, she has 415 health. My sword does 97 damage, and yet it will kill her in a single hit frontally every time, this was not the case a mere day ago. I thought that perhaps something was bugged with how swords do damage, so I went to test it against some relatively powerful targets. A draugr deathlord, with 1000 health, would be my victim. As expected it took 11 swipes to kill him, and 5-6 power attacks to kill him, consistent results every time. I tested on a few more targets and got the correct results. Why would it be that lydia, with 415 health dies to a single hit, but every other target, even weaker ones, is damaged properly? Is anyone else having the same issue?

Edit: After some quick further testing, I have found that this exceedingly large amount of damage from the player to the follower applies to everything from the player; shouts, magic, arrows, etc. A Fus ro dah alone can kill lydia, so she can literally die from a stiff breeze. I used setav health to set her health to very high numbers (1000 and up) to check just how many times more damage everything seemed to be doing, and it turns out that everything is doing about 5 times as much damage as it should be against her. I have not checked if this problem exists with other followers. This should probably be moved to the followers discussion. -Stug41

Perhaps it is intentional to make leveling on followers harder thus discouriging it (e.g.: One-Handed).

Bleeding

18 damage with three perks and a Daedric weapon? Seriously? God dammit Bethesda. 178.183.233.168 23:16, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

At least it's not as bad as Bladesman, which as I recently learned, gives an average +2.1 damage per hit with a Daedric sword >_< --Evil4Zerggin 00:24, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Same for Shield Bash damage. It is fixed... Not to mention Bone Breaker/Crusher, which is also without a significant effect since enemies do NOT have skills! So even their full Daedric armor would give them only a minimal protection which is not worth mentioning, let alone spending more than one perks on it to decrease it with just a maximum of 75% percent! Logically thinking one perk point should give you 75% or even 100% reduction since it is so insignificant.

Probably the best way to make this (barely) acceptable would be to decrease the perk point requirement to only one, seriously. But not sure if anyone would spend even one perk on these. Meh.

Bleeding Over or Under-Powered?

The note on the Bleeding damage is ambiguous. A Daedric weapon could be doing either 3 damage per second for 6 seconds, for an extra 18 damage total, or 18 damage for 6 seconds, for an extra 108 damage total. This really needs to be clarified, as it's really confusing. Swk3000 20:45, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Daedric = total of 18 Damage over time. Underpowered.— Unsigned comment by 88.132.45.92 (talk) at 22:02 on 25 December 2011

Consider that Bleeding damage stacks; if you are attacking once per second, at 6 attacks with a daedric war axe you are now doing the 18 dmg/sec and can keep that up as long as you like. With dual wield and dual flurry or elemental fury you can get faster attacks, and therefor higher dps values. Basically, on lower difficulties it doesn't matter much because you will kill the enemy quickly anyways. On higher difficulties and against higher level enemies it becomes significant as it stacks up. — Unsigned comment by 72.1.218.38 (talk) at 21:12 on 9 February 2012

If it's 18 total damage that requires 3 perks to get and isn't affected by other damage increases (skill, other perks, fortify enchants or potions, weapon tempering), then it'll never be more than the 18 damage, and is severely underpowered compared to other perk choices. -Vardis 21:35, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Pickaxe / Woodcutter's Axe

I've found that when doing a single standing power attack with a Pickaxe in the right hand, the weapon does two attacks, both downward strikes and damage is accounted for on both strikes. When using a single standing power attack with the Woodcutter's Axe in the left hand, again it does two attacks. A sweep to the right, followed with a sweep to the left. Again, both accounting for damage. When using a Pickaxe in the right hand and a Woodcutter's Axe in the left hand and I do a dual-power attack, instead of doing the traditional left, right, both, it does a far more extensive attack that I've counted up to seven actual strikes, all showing damage, and using the same stamina. Additionally, the strikes are as fast as though someone wielded a dagger in the left hand and another non-dagger weapon in the right hand. Can anyone else confirm this, and I'd like to know if this is some bug or if possibly intentional. — Unsigned comment by 50.44.13.162 (talk) on 4:45 PM 14, December 2011 (CST)

They do not behave like that on any regular PC/platform. The only notable difference between Pickaxe/Woodcutter's Axe and other One-Handed weapons is that they swing faster.

Leveling formula

"The One-Handed skill is by far the longest skill to reach 100%. Since the skill upgrade when a hit is done and not on the damage output, the dagger is the best choice for leveling up, but even with a dagger it will takes forever compare to Two-Handed and any other skill."

After rigorous tests performed by a forum member (Valadez) I am removing this piece of information from the article for the time being as it may not be correct. The amount of experience gained for One-handed seems to be influenced by how much damage the player outputs per hit rather than a fixed increase per hit. If there are any objections, leave them here. Narzul 05:35, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Night Falls on Sentinel

Doesn't seem to give you One-Handed anymore as of 1.3. 178.183.217.162 06:19, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

is it possible you have already gained the bonus from it? you only get the bonus once. (Eddie The Head 06:20, 21 December 2011 (UTC))

Nope, both were first reads with two different characters in two different games, from the copy in unmarked bandit camp just N from the Talos Shrine, on the eastern side of Lake Illnata or whatsitsname. I'll be making another char soon so I'll report on three out of three. 178.183.217.162 11:46, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Dual Savagery damage bonus

After Bladesman I'm scared to take any perks in One-handed tree without testing them first. Does Dual Savagery work as intended? 178.183.236.36 06:07, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes.

Remove a Note?

"The armor-ignoring effect of Bone Breaker is almost completely irrelevant because most enemies are lightly armored. Even heavy armored enemies have no armor skill, no armor perks and no armor upgrades, so an opponent clad full in Daedric Armor will have 49+18+18+23=108 armor rating, which gives him a negligible damage reduction."

Shouldn't the enemy also get +100 armor rating for wearing all 4 pieces of equipment (200 armor is not too shabby, something like 30% damage resistance)? And do all enemies really have 0 armor skill? I know followers do have armor skill. — Unsigned comment by 207.38.252.168 (talk) at 06:55 on December 22, 2011

Getting 100 AR for four pieces is news to me. I know there's a hidden +100 AR for the players(no matter how many pieces you're wearing) but does this apply to NPCs too? And where you're getting the 30% from? 178.183.236.161 12:38, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

According to the Armor page, you get an extra 25 Armor per piece of armor you wear. The +100 would be what you get if you wear a full set of armor with no shield (25*4). As for the 30%, that's an (incorrect) conversion of Armor Rating to Damage Resist. The exact formula is to multiply your total Armor Rating by 0.12; the result is your Damage Resist. The 208 Armor Rating that the previous poster put forth would actually only be 24.96% damage resistance. Of course, that assumes that the Hidden Armor Rating bonus applies to NPC's; that may only be valid for the PC. Swk3000 16:19, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Quick question about Dual Wielding

Do you get a speed boost just for Dual Wielding, or do you have to have the perk? For example, if I have a Dagger in my Left Hand and a Mace in my Right Hand, will I get a boost in attack speed if I have no ranks in Dual Flurry? Or will the attack speed remain the same until I put points into Dual Flurry? Swk3000 16:23, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Why dualwielding?

It seems that having 2 weapons attacking alternately is not any faster than having 1 weapon attack repeatedly, so is dualwielding useless unless u have perks for it? meaning the extra dmg and speed perks? — Unsigned comment by 91.182.126.163 (talk)

Without any perks, the main advantage to dual-wielding is the fact that a power attack consists of three attacks (two with your right hand weapon and one with your left hand weapon), and so it will probably do more damage than a single one-handed weapon power attack. Then you have to factor in the fact that all of your dual-wield attacks will be made at the speed of your left-hand weapon, so you can equip a dagger (for example) in your left hand and a sword or mace in your right, and attacks with your sword/mace will be done at the speed of your dagger. With the relevant perks, you have the added bonus of more chances of critical hits, decapitations, etc. because you are attacking more often. Plus, wielding two weapons means you can have two different enchantments. --Gaebrial 13:31, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Dual-Wielding results in an immediate damage increase even without perks. To see this damage increase, you have to hit the buttons for both hands at the same time (so on the 360, you would pull both triggers). This causes you to attack with both weapons at the same time, resulting in higher damage output. The attack is a little slower than two attacks from just one weapon, but it frontloads all it's damage into one hit. Enemies that take two hits to kill will still take two hits to kill, but because you're doing both hits at the same time, they go down on the first hit. And this is without any perks at all! Swk3000 14:56, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Hack and Slash Bug?

After putting two perk points into Hack and Slash realized it is having zero effect in combat. It worked normally with previous characters, anyone else run into this? Any suggestions on a fix? Playing on PS3 — Unsigned comment by 66.91.207.100 (talk) at 01:33 on 13 January 2012 (UTC)

It's not bugged unfortunately, it's just excessively underpowered. Using a Daedric war axe with the highest level of the perk, you'll only be doing 108 worth of damage over six seconds (though the effect stacks). Assuming you're not using the best equipment (which, even then, isn't going to get much of a result by the time you have that equipment), you'll barely notice the effect. I would suggest investing your perk points into more useful perks in the future. If it annoys you really badly, reroll your character. Sorry, but it's just kind of a terrible perk. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 01:33, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

NPC Bug

Wasn't really sure where else to put this... I've found that about 90% of the time, when I kill an NPC who was dual-weilding, if the weapons they were using were the same, they will only have one weapon in their inventory when you loot their bodies. If you want both their weapons, you have to go hunting across the ground to find the other one. This is on the PS3

216.59.228.188 00:44, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I do not know that it is a bug. The weapons exist in the game, near the body, and can be looted. Perhaps it is not working as intended, however: clearly they added a "hack" so that the main weapon is both on the body AND on the ground in many cases. Look again in game, and you will OFTEN see the mainhand weapon on the ground nearby, and you can loot it all by itself, or if you click on the body it is in the loot there too. Perhaps this "hack" was not extended for 2 weapons? For the really odd ones, kill someone so their body falls a long way, and the weapon is still up high... the weapon will still be lootable on the corpse that is 100 feet down if you do not pick it up where it lies. — Unsigned comment by 24.149.111.41 (talk)

This isn't precisely true. When you first loot the NPC's corpse, you'll only find one of their weapons. If you loot their corpse a second time, you'll find the second weapon. --Gaebrial 15:41, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

How things work?

I have several related questions/comments about weapons, enchantments, and how things work. If I missed these topics, I apologize.

1) Are enchantments ever multiplied up? For example, if you use swords and critical hit, is the enchantment damage increased or is it the same amount as if you hit normally? What about sneak attack with enchantments?

2) Would a dagger with an enchantment do more damage per second because it hits that enchantment more times per second? It seems that there is no scaling for slower weapons, so that same +50 fire damage on a dagger or +50 on an 2h hammer... the dagger hits many more times than the hammer, and it seems like that would mean faster weapons are far, far superior once enchantments are brought into the equations?

3) Do critical hits add or multiply or anything with sneak attacks?

4) Is the unique dagger with 25% critical hit chance more deadly than say a daedric dagger, both of them improved to legendary or whatever? Combined with 1) 2) and 3), would a heavy enchantment on this dagger be one, if not the, most powerful weapons in the game? I saw it given a mention as a great offhand choice which implies that some of 1,2, and 3 are answered with "no extra damage".

I do not even know how to test some of these things for myself, is there a log of damage done or a way to see that? Thanks for any thoughts on these.

Critical Charge

What is this critical damage based on? Does it double critical damage from perks like bladesman?--RumblePen 02:31, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it's based on base critical damage. This can be set to anything, but for every weapon I've seen, critical damage is set to half the weapon's base damage. Critical Charge is buggy when used with swords and the Bladesman perk. I have a fix for it available here.--SushiSquid 04:27, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

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