Skyrim talk:Block/Archive 2

This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Block discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Bash Damage

What determines the amount of damage you do with a bash attack? For shields, is it based on the defense of the shield? What about bashing without a shield, then? Does the Block skill itself effect the damage like weapon skills do for attacks? There's a lot of variables that I'm totally unsure of. Lovless510 18:37, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Shields with higher armor rating seem to deal more damage, though not as much as the armor increase would suggest. I wonder if there's a way to increase your bash damage. Also, iron 2h sword seem to deal as much (or nearly as much) bash damage as flawless ebony shield, but it's range totally sucks. — Unsigned comment by 193.167.107.251 (talk) at 08:22 on 26 November 2011

It seems as though all shields do the same damage regardless of type, armor rating, and heavy / light class. Additionally, I seem to have realized that the more stamina I have left, the more damage I do. After nearly an hour of testing, I've come to realize that at first I could cripple Olfrid Battle-Born in Whiterun in two hard shots where the first took out nearly 2/3rds of his health, whereas nearing the end of my stamina when his health recovered fully, it now took three... I've tested it with the following, if anyone wants to try and recreate the same situation:

Two-Handed Weapon: Silver Greatsword

One-Handed Weapon: Hjalti's Sword - Steel War Axe (Legendary)

Shield: Blades - Daedric - Dragonplate (Leg) - Ebony (Leg) - Ebony - Dwarven (Leg) - Dwarven - Glass (Leg) - Glass - Imperial Light Shield (Leg) - Imperial Light Shield - Orcish Shield of Frost Abatement (Leg) - Spellbreaker (Leg) - Steel Shield (Leg) - Steel Shield - Hide Shield (Leg) - Hide Shield - Targe of the Blooded.

Interestingly enough, the Targe of the Blooded did the same amount of damage as any other shield, before Bleedout of 15dmg of course. However TotB does not cripple an opponent. In other words, using TotB is not advised if wanting to exploit any techniques.

Additionally, be it a Light Shield or a Heavy Shield, they take the same stamina. In other words, a Legendary Daedric Shield does the same exact damage as a non-improved Hide Shield. It seems as though the same applies for weapons, both One-Handed and Two-Handed as well.

In other words, be it an Iron Dagger, a Hide Shield, or a Legendary Daedric Shield or Legendary Daedric Warhammer, everything takes the same Stamina and does the same damage... However, the more Stamina you have, the more damage you seem to bash out. A flawed system, if you ask me. 50.44.13.162 4:35 AM 15th, December 2011 (CST)

My testing shows otherwise. You can find my specific numbers here; [1] Kai Heilos 08:08, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

i think the formula is (without deadly bash) :

Shield bash damage = base shield armor rating / 8

Power shield bash damage = 3 x shield bash damage

Best shield for bash: Spellbreaker (38 base armor rating, 4.75 shield bash damage)

Weapon bash damage = base weapon damage / 4

Power weapon bash damage = 3 x weapon bash damage

Best weapon for bash: Daedric War Hammer (27 base damage, 6.75 weapon bash damage)

Only base armor rating & weapon damage are calculated. Smithing, skill, perk not include in calculation. Deadly bash multiply all damage five times. untested with one handed weapon bash (without shield). Sorry for bad english. --Alcyone 05:08, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Bows don't appear to do any damage unless you have the Deadly Bash perk. The effect seems to simply be to stagger the target. With an Ebony bow console commands indicated 0 damage on a target with no armor rating. On Adept difficulty settings a bash with the same bow did 15 damage with the Deadly Bash perk and on Master difficulty settings it did 5 damage which is hard to reconcile with the description of the Deadly Bash perk.--DagmarH 20:34, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

(←) Hi, just thought I should add this: A quick cheat with console revealed that the block-skill increases block damage. I set it to 100000, OHKO:ing a guard in whiterun at level 7 :) -- ikee 4th July 2012 — Unsigned comment by 119.243.186.132 (talk) at 14:51 on 4 July 2012

Deflect Arrows and Shield Wall

First of all, I'll just mention that Shield Wall is lying about its values. It actually adds 10% blocking effectiveness per rank, and that does exactly what you think it would: with rank 5, you can block an attack and take half the damage you would have if you had no ranks of Shield Wall. Your Block skill also affects damage taken, and the combination of Block skill, Shield Wall ranks, and Fortify Block effects cannot negate more than 85% damage total. Due to the 85% cap, higher Shield Wall ranks are wasted once your Block skill rises into higher levels if you are using a shield. Shield Wall may have shield in the name, but there is no requirement that you be using a shield for it to work, so higher ranks do help when blocking with weapons, which are naturally less effective.

But let's discuss Deflect Arrows. Everything about this perk requires a shield, so it does nothing if you block with a weapon. We all know it lies about negating arrow damage because they still hurt some, but that's because again, blocking cannot stop more than 85% of damage. The perk has two parts. The first sets blocking effectiveness to maximum and the second sets blocking chance against arrows to 100%. But that first part simply sets blocking effectiveness to maximum against everything. If you have Deflect Arrows, then when blocking with a shield, you will have the full 85% damage mitigation regardless of your Block skill, Shield Wall Ranks, and Fortify Block effects.

I've added this information to the main page. This stuff was done under game version 1.3.10.0, in case this ever gets fixed in the future.--SushiSquid 12:44, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry dont know how to respond to a post, but are you saying that currently Block is bugged to the point of getting full Block equivalent (85) by just picking deflect arrows as a perk?— Unsigned comment by 174.252.19.200 (talk) at 22:23 on 16 January 2012

I've edited your message to be a response to the above section and added a signature. To answer the question: yes, but only when blocking with a shield, not a weapon. If you are using a shield, then in addition to letting you block arrows, Deflect Arrows also maximizes blocking ability (85% damage reduction) against all attacks regardless of any other factors. If you are not using a shield, Deflect Arrows does nothing at all.--SushiSquid 02:43, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Does "any other factors" include shield construction/materiel? In other words, will an unimproved Hide shield block as much damage as an Epic Deadric? I assume armor rating will only apply to the 15% of damage the sheild does not block.The12black 03:59, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

The entry point it uses sets blocking damage mitigation to == 1. That translates to 100% effectiveness, but due to the 85% cap, it just means you hit the cap. Deflect Arrows is bugged in two ways. First, because of the 85% cap, it doesn't matter that it sets effectiveness to 100%. You'll still take 15% damage from blocked arrows. The second issue actually is a problem with the perk itself: it applies its effects to all blocking. There's no conditional run on the attacker's weapon to check if it's a bow. In fact, I don't know if you can run such a conditional. The options for perk conditionals are perk owner, perk owner's weapon, and target. There's isn't a target's weapon option that I know of. This may change in the future. For example, when Fallout: New Vegas was first released, some of its perks didn't work correctly because the engine didn't include correct conditionals for implementing them. Later this was patched, so things like Hit the Deck and Stonewall now function as their descriptions say they should. It's possible we'll see a future patch to fix this behavior. For now though, Deflect Arrows is bugged and I don't know if it can be fixed.

And yes, armor still applies as usual. If you have 667 armor or higher (80% combat damage mitigation) and block for full value (85%), you take 3% of normal damage.--SushiSquid 04:20, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

So it basically means that just by taking the Deflect Arrows it increases Blocking chance to its maximum of 85% regardless of what would hit the shield? So for example, wearing rings and amulets which increase blocking chance is completly useless with the Deflect Arrows perk, am I right? --Arkhon 06:55, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes. If you have Deflect Arrows and you use a shield (not a weapon) to block, all other forms of increasing blocking damage mitigation are worthless. Deflect Arrows already maxes it out.--SushiSquid 07:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow, thank you for the confirmation. --Arkhon 03:01, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

(←) Well, Deflect Arrows is bugged, it maximizes the blocking to 85% regardless your block skill & type of shield used, and it`s really so bad & annoying. No need to search, smith or upgrade the shield (or even the Armor), no need to train or enhance blocking skill, all you have to do is just raise your shield and now you are in the GOD mode, it just made the game unchallenging.. I think Bethesda must do something about it and quick , a patch or something.. — Unsigned comment by 217.139.25.96 (talk) at 21:57 on 17 March 2012

Is that thing with Deflect Arrows bug still true with 1.4 (or 1.5 beta) patches? Because I have that perk, I have armor rate over armor cap and I still receive quite a beat up during (for example) fighting dragons (of course with shield raised). I can´t find myself proper measure technique for this problem. --Luke the Hero 13:41, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

I believe that they have fixed this bug in 1.5. --Arkhon 18:54, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Is it possible anyhow to install 1.4 or 1.5 beta patches without steam?? — Unsigned comment by 217.139.136.140 (talk) at 13:46 on 19 March 2012

The notes for the 1.5 patch say: "Fixed issue with Deflect Arrows perk not calculating properly." I assume this means that they have fixed this bug. GrogGrogGrog 07:13, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Shield Charge appears to be broken as of patch 1.5

No longer works for me. Can someone confirm?174.0.116.189 14:50, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

It seems to work fine for my character but it does seem possible that some people would experience glitches at this stage. Maybe a note should be added on the page? RIM 15:04, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Seems someone has already added a note, but it's not particularly helpful. "...to fix this simply use console remove it and add it back." That's fine for PC players but "simply use the console" doesn't apply to those of us on xbox and PS3 and it annoys me when notes read as though the presumption is that everyone is playing on PC. Furthermore what does "after some time" mean exactly? That the skill just spontaneously stops working? For no apparent reason? Because it had been working fine for me right up until I installed patch 1.5 and it seems rather unlikely that this was a mere coincidence. Finally, was the note added because someone else has experienced the same bug (i.e. confirmation)?174.0.116.189 22:44, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

It wasn't me that added that note but I don't think there would be any solution on the Xbox or PS3 unfortunately.RIM 08:38, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Needs to be more clear

• Deflect Arrows doesn't work some of the times. If you put shield up and face the enemy archery, a few arrows can still get past your shield as if you didn't block it.

This is poorly worded and doesn't describe the bug in detail. The way it's worded it sounds like someone didn't understand that it has to hit the shield for Deflect Arrows to work. What I think it's trying to say:

• At a close enough range, arrows can actually be fired behind a shield bypassing the Deflect Arrows perk.

I think a rewrite is in order. 130.184.55.63 21:02, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I just removed it because it really doesn't need to be stated that only arrows that hit the shield will do no damage. Archers can fire around the shield to do damage. The Silencer has spoken^Talk 21:10, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Except I think this bug is saying that it an archer is close enough, the arrow will technically be behind the shield when it is launched. I don't know if that's true or not. 130.184.55.63 21:13, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

If the arrow is technically behind the shield then obviously it won't hit the shield. Therefore the bug is not a bug. The Silencer has spoken^Talk 21:15, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Not a bug with Deflect Arrows, no. A graphical bug perhaps? Archery? It's not something that SHOULD happen so it's got to be a bug of some kind. I guess what I'm trying to say is this statement needs a better home. NFITC1 21:22, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

(←) Honestly I don't think it's a important enough to mention anywhere. But I think it can happen wih melee weapons, so if anywhere, it's a grapical bug. The Silencer has spoken^Talk 21:35, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with "being hit by arrow in close range", whatever gave you that idea. With enemy archery at normal ranged distances, in front of you. roughly half of the arrows don't get blocked at all. It is not poorly worded, you just confused this bug with another one. It describes exactly what happens. 50.99.131.84 19:05, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

You shouldn't readd it until the confusion is cleared. Your reasoning has nothing do with the perk. The perk stops damage, not the arrow, what you are saying is that holding a shield in front of you does not stop all arrows, that is how it works. The perk is about stopping damage from arrows that hit the shield, nothing in this description is related to the bug which is why I removed it for being extremely poorly written. The bug as it is written is basically saying that arrows go through the shield, which makes it a bug related to using a shield, not the perk. The Silencer has spoken^Talk 19:18, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Apparently you are lacking sense to understand common English. An arrow hits you, you take damage. Is that so hard to understand.? 50.99.131.84 20:53, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Stop being stubborn. This is an important bug that affects game play regularly. Stop finding reasons to delete it because you misunderstood it and is now embarrassed. Reword it if you have to.50.99.131.84 20:56, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

And this IS the page for block, and I don't know if the arrows that damages you are doing full damage, (block didn't work) or are doing partial damage (perk didn't work) 50.99.131.84 21:04, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

WHy call me stubborn and then reword the bug. All you needed to say was that the perk wasn't working properly according to it's description, but you have not yet said that. What you are saying is that arrows still hit you when you raise your shield, read the description of the perk to see that it does not prevent all arrows from hitting you. The Silencer has spoken^Talk 21:20, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Bow Bashing...

Can someone please confirm whether the following perks affect bashing with bows?

Power bash Deadly bash Disarming bash

Thanks! -HK — Unsigned comment by 87.86.169.66 (talk) at 11:05 on 24 May 2012

A similar question was asked here, and the answer appears to be yes. Hope that helped. Kitkat ^{•Talk•Contrib•E-mail} 11:12, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Nope. They do not! Bows are unable to execute the power bash move (where you hold down the bash button) unlike any other melee weapon, therefore all those block perks are useless for marksman build (there goes my ultimate archer dreams). They can only do regular bash. Tested myself w/ latest patch & unofficial patch. (I apologize if here's not a proper section to state/discuss this but i'm 100% sure of this fact and wanted to share.) - Elrumel 01:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Deadly Bash works. It applies to normal bash attacks not power bash attacks.--DagmarH 19:18, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Quick Reflexes

Can anyone elaborate about what exactly Quick Reflexes achieves? Power attacks are generally slow enough to follow without much trouble, and if you're already blocking then I don't see what time slowing down really does to help, unless the slow down doesn't affect your own movement? I haven't bothered spending the point on it before so I'm interested to know as the in-game description is naturally useless at conveying why I should take it! -- Haravikk 15:28, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Quick Reflexes does infact help. When they do a power attack they are slowed but u are not. So while there being slowed u can move around, get behind them or do whatever.

Ive actually used this on a mage and as soon as they swung, i backed up a little and shot a fireball at them, while they were helpless. — Unsigned comment by Joe dirte9 (talk • contribs) at 01:36 on 21 June 2012

Sword Enchantment Affecting Shield Bash Damage?

Ive been told that whatever enchant my sword has my bash damage seems to inherit it. But idk if this is true of not.

Can anyone confirm of bust this plz?

Also, what would be your prefered shield for a smiter character? I heard spellbreaker up above but idk if i think thats the real best. Any like enchantment mixes you would rather have? — Unsigned comment by Joe dirte9 (talk • contribs) at 01:36 on 21 June 2012

It's untrue. An enchantment on a weapon does not affect your shield. For the second you may want to try our forums or chatroom. The Silencer speaks^Talk 01:43, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I think he means when bashing with the enchanted sword. . .should be easily tested with a Fire Damage blade, to see whether or not the enemy lights up after being bashed with it. 76.185.41.201 21:33, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Clarification

Concerning the statement "Using better shields. . .advances the Block skill faster", can we assume that a "better" shield means one from whichever armor skill (Light or Heavy) is higher? Doesn't an Iron shield inherently block as well as a Glass shield for a given character? 76.185.41.201 22:56, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Did a basic test, on a new character with 129 AR consisting of all Heavy armor, except for a Light shield (Hide). While blocking, he took 8 hits from a Sabre cat before dying, and a do-over took only 5 hits to die while blocking and wearing no other armor but the shield. (Also took only 5 hits to die with all the gear equipped but not blocking at all). Obviously, an incoming hit goes through at least 2 boundaries, Block and Armor Rating, before the damage is "finalized" and applied. Makes sense, but it's not always a given, and some of us are ADDish and need it spelled out ;) Still doubtful that one shield type would expedite skillups over another - Block is Block, yes? 76.185.41.201 21:16, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

blocking with armor cap

Just looking for clarification. If I am well past the armor cap, is there any difference between being hit with no shield, being hit with a shield equipped or being hit with a shield raised to block? 68.171.231.82 03:56, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

You would need to raise the shield, and then you would take very little to no damage when being hit. Give it a test on giants maybe. — Unsigned comment by 67.164.33.239 (talk) at 06:41 on 3 August 2012

Quick Reflexes glitch?

While fighting the boss of a Draugr dungeon, I triggered the Quick Reflexes perk... but the time-slowing effect didn't end. It was still in effect for the ~60% health he had left, as well as the entire time it took me to loop back around to kill a final Draugr past a Word Wall. Has anybody else had a glitch like this happen before? Felindre 17:56, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Though I have not experienced it my self, I have seen several lets-plays where this glitch occurs, including one where it would happen almost every time the player blocks. I think it may be important enough to metion on this page.--Playerjjjj 12:41, 6 August 2012 (UTC)Playerjjjj

Ah. It seems that someone has already done this. Good day!--Playerjjjj 12:43, 6 August 2012 (UTC)Playerjjjj

I got that glitch, each time it was slowing down and not stopping, i quick reload because it was unterminable, i got this glitch maybe a dozen of time until i closed the game and restarted it, i didn't got that problem anymore. — Unsigned comment by 70.26.225.219 (talk) at 06:30 on 19 September 2012‎

I'll add this bug fix to the page. --Xyzzy ^Talk 14:02, 19 September 2012 (GMT)

Power Bashing

Silly question, but how do you actuall do this? I'm assuming you hold down block for longer and then let go, but I'm literally guessing here. I've unlocked the relevant perk; I'm just not noticing a difference. — Unsigned comment by 80.229.165.55 (talk) at 12:25 on 2 September 2012‎

The description is a little vague. In order to perform a shield bash, you hold the block button (right mouse button on PC) and tap the attack button (left mouse button on PC). If you hold the block button instead of tapping it, you will perform a power bash. --Xyzzy ^Talk 13:52, 17 September 2012 (GMT)

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