Lore talk:Dwemer/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Lore talk:Dwemer discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Copyright Violation

Wikipedia does not allow verbatim copying of material from their site. They do not allow content copied verbatim to be altered, and all submissions to UESPWiki must be allowed to be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. Feel free to copy material from public domains or similar free resources, just make sure to give credit where credit is due. --Aristeo 02:28, 21 June 2006 (EDT) Oops, I guess I am wrong here, but we still can't have stuff from Wikipedia on the site. See Nephele's comments below. --Aristeo | Talk 13:30, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

Actually, you are QUITE wrong. wikipedia uses "GNU Free Documentation License" for all content. What this means is, well,in the words of wikipedia "The license Wikipedia uses grants free access to our content in the same sense as free software is licensed freely. This principle is known as copyleft. That is to say, Wikipedia content can be copied, modified, and redistributed so long as the new version grants the same freedoms to others and acknowledges the authors of the Wikipedia article used (a direct link back to the article satisfies our author credit requirement)."

Since the wikipedia article is MUCH larger, and MUCH more complete, I will begin the work of bringing the wikipedia content over shortly. 24.149.23.119 03:13, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

The situation is a bit more complicated than that, because the copyright license used on UESPWiki is not GFDL. For just one of the many long conversations that have been triggered by this, see UESPWiki:Community_Portal/Archive_6#Copyright/Licensing. The bottom line is that on UESPWiki we do not want to have content that has been copied verbatim from Wikipedia. On the other hand, if you would like to take the information from wikipedia's article and rewrite that information, that would be a welcome contribution. --Nephele 13:01, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

UESP not allowing it is very different than wikipedia not allowing it ;-) 24.149.23.119 13:09, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

• I tried to fix up this page a bit, but it was very inconscice and still remains a bit such. Does every instance of "dwemer" have to be in bold? Also, I hate text that has two spaces between sentences. I removed the following sentence, because it has zero relevance to this article:

"As a result of the war, not only were the Dwemer lost, but the Chimer were changed into the Dunmer, the dark-skinned inhabitants of Morrowind."

This is fully explained in articles on both the chimer and the dunmer. --FMan 08:55, 4 October 2006 (EDT)

Ithink that you don't need to have every "dwemer" in bold, the first instance will suffice, as is the case for most race pages. --DrPhoton 03:47, 5 October 2006 (EDT)

Didn't we solve the disappearance of the dwarves in Morrowind for Arch-mage Trebonius? It doesn't go into depth about the reasons in the morrowind quest page on the UESPWiki, and I don't feel like loading up an old saved game from morrowind to remind myself. Would be a good add to this article though.

Armor

Bamz-Amschend in Mournhold seems to disprove the theory that armor was the shells of their machines, as their are 2 Ash Piles with Dwarven Cuirasses on top of them, suggesting that the Dwemer were wearing them when they died. See the relevant comment on the Bamz-Amschend talk page. Darth Cronus 12:38, 26 October 2007 (EDT) Also, can anyone source the comment? Darth Cronus 00:11, 7 November 2007 (EST)

No, but I can source a rebuttal: Read Chimarvamidium. It's specifically a story about a person disguising themselves as a machine by wearing Dwemer armor. Dwemer armor is armor, not machine-plating. I think that's pretty well established. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 00:53, 7 November 2007 (EST)

The book's article states that they are fictous stories so the Dwemer could in fact be normal-sized--166.204.119.245 19:28, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Dwemer armor in Morrowind and Oblivion look completely different. In Morrowind it looks almost exactly like Centurion plating. In Oblivion it actually looks like what the specters in Morrowind wear. I believe only the Oblivion version is true Dwemer armor. 194.219.35.227 19:36, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Couldn't the piles of dust just be some other random people, who somehow got fried? People who somehow entered Bamz-Amschend after the Dwemer dissapeared? I find it hard to believe that after so many years, something that has gone to dust, can still lie in such a nice heap. Also, as mentioned before, the book "Ruins of Kemel-Ze" and the Oblivion Dwarven armor suggest otherwise. And about the Dwemer armor in the book "Chimarvamidium", this book speaks of one case, it might be the oblivion armor, or it might even have been a completely different kind of Dwemer armor, which looks more like one of their Animunculi (The steam centurion for example). 118.82.150.60 04:29, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Redlink reversion

Reverted every redlink in the article in two edits! Woot! Darth Cronus 10:36, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Removing red links is usually a good idea but not always. Most of the ones you've done there look fine, but personally I'd have left the link to the Velothi Mountains to remind people it could do with creating. I don't know enough Lore to revert so I'll leave things as they are, but it's something to think about if this is something you're going to look at in the future. --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 16:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Works 4 me, reverting now. Darth Cronus 20:18, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Sorry it took so long, I had to go somewhere and couldn't find the time until just now. Darth Cronus 00:06, 7 November 2007 (EST)

The Lost Dwarves

I moved the following text from the main article:

There is a document In Morrowind that gives the most logical and probably the real reason for the disappearance of this race. It explains every event that took place that day; how Indoril Nerevar and his loyal friend Dagoth Ur infiltrated the Red Mountain fortress to destroy Lorkhan's Heart and ruin Kagrenac's plans of creating a new God that would serve to proclaim the supremacy of the dwarves. After a battle Nerevar was seriously wounded and weak but he and Dagoth Ur managed to kill Kagrenac and secure Keening, Sunder, and Wraithguard. When Nerevar and Dagoth Ur severed the heart using the tools, the Dwemer turned into dust because the immortality they aquired using the heart was broken and they finally died.

The document is found in the Secret library of Vivec, beneath office of the watch. You can find a trap door in a corner covered with a rug, and if you unlock the door and remove the spell you can go down and then go to the other side of the door. There you'll find the library with this paper in one of the book shelves.

The text needs a lot of cleanup and revamping before belonging in the main article, and I don't have the knowledge to do it. Overall, the information needs to be incorporated into the article instead of being tacked on as a separate section. Game-specific information (where to find the document while playing Morrowind) does not belong. But a name for the document being described (and a link to it) is needed. --Nephele^Talk 02:50, 13 November 2007 (EST)

The document is Nerevar at Red Mountain. There are 2 slightly different accounts in this room, but this one is probably the one the previous poster was talking about. --67.187.149.187 05:02, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Major Revamping

I have recently re-formatted this article and made some major changes to it. Contributions are, as always, welcome. I have managed to include at least one image from, Redguard, Morrowind and Oblivion. As far as balance goes, I think we're going strong. I have also placed some relevant links from the Site Library under "See Also." Under "Notes," I have placed some quotes which, while not really material for the main article body, deserve a mention purely to give a more comprehensive explanation of some of the points featured. Any comments about my work up to now are welcome! --HMSVictory^Talk 10:07, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

Quick input on structure: 1st. paragraph-- You might want to state that the Dwemer are one of several races with the common heritage of Mer, Dwe-mer, Alt-mer. To say they are the Mer is confusing. Then, consider rearranging the order of paragraphs, start with what defines them, their accomplishments, architecture and then get to their disappearance. Break down the Wall-of-Text with sub-headlines of that kind, so people can scan the page, navigate, and not tire their eyes. If you want, I can help you with that later, when you're done with the write-up. Overall, good article and very informative. --Cheers, Benould^•T•C 16:32, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

Name of the only living Dwemer in Morrowind

I remember in the main quest for Morrowind, you had to talk to a dwarf, who was the only living dwarf left in Tamriel. I am trying to remember his name but I can't, and I know that the part that you get to him in the MQ was pretty deep in and I don't want to play through that far just to get a name. Could someone help me out?

68.123.0.251 23:16, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Did you actually try reading the article first? Because the article talks about "Yagrum Bagarn, the last living Dwemer." If you had any doubt whether it's the same character, you could try following the link. You really can find out your answers a lot faster if you read the information that's already provided on the site. --Nephele^Talk 23:42, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Image

I was wondering if an image of one of the Dwemer spectres seen in Morrowind should be included on the page (see here). The image shows vaguely what the Dwemer looked like before they disappeared.--Willyhead^/t 13:08, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

Good idea, but the images here already are too good to be removed, and with them on the page there really isn't enough space for another one. If someone could take a really clear, bright and close-up screenshot of a pasive Dwarven Spectre, then maybe we could include it, with another paragrapth referring to it for text padding and spacing. --HMSVictory^Talk 13:15, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

Maybe this one uploaded by User:Deepfighter could find a place. I believe the drawing is concept art from the development of TES 3, but you should ask him to be sure. --Benould^•T•C 14:46, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, that's conecpt art. It's not particularly clear though, and when you compare it to the three other images we have already, I think it's just not right. I have an idea though. If we are going to include a Dwarven Spectre at all, then it should be inside a Dwemer ruin with pletnty of light. Now, there are basically no Dwemer ruins with an acceptable level of light for this image, so how about creating one in the CS? Then you could conviniently include some Dwemer constructs in the background or something else scenic. Anyway, the problem is, images taken from the CS are never of high quality, as you can plainly see on the Morrowind:Undead page. The Spectre there is hazed and foggy, whereas in the ruins they are much clearer. Maybe you could COC yourself into the created cell and find a good spot to image-capture. What do you think? --HMSVictory^Talk 07:15, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

Hmm, what about taking close-up SC of Dwemer statues, like here, in front of some ruins in MW. I feel that is more informative then a fuzzy Dwarven Ghost. Any photographer willing to get some SC of those, and some of the apparatuses, like a ballista? --Benould^•T•C 19:36, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

Maybe we could collage all three ideas together, much like the schematics at the top of the page have been done. What do you think? --HMSVictory^Talk 12:12, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

What's going on?

Check this out. It says the chart is originally from UESP. Where is it? I was thinking of adding an astronomy section to the article, and this chart would come in useful. What's the story behind it? --HMSVictory^Talk 15:46, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

How I read it is that they took an UESP table and made a graphical representation of it. You'd have to ask for permission, or redo the graphics. --Benould^•T•C 15:53, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

Well, that chart would be extremely useful if I add the aforementioned section. I'll send them an e-mail. --HMSVictory^Talk 09:03, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

Mistake

Is erred a word or deweris in the refernces article the last dwarve says it

To err means to make an error, so erred is a real word.--Dogmantra 13:21, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

heightened to Numidium

Is this unclear wording or a sneaky inclusion of the real story? (That's right boys and girls, we do know what happened to the Dwarves) Oh, and I question the suggestion that vivec meant anything by capitalizing Reason and Logic.Temple-Zero 23:15, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

It is sneaky, well, not anymore since you highlighted it ;) Pending the community discussion, a quote from Skeleton Man's Interview would illustrate the point nicely. But even with the sources we have, i think the sentence as it stands can be defended.

"Do not think as others do that Kagrenac created the Anumidum for petty motivations, such as a refutation of the gods. Kagrenac was devoted to his people, and the Dwarves, despite what you may have read, were a pious lot-he would not have sacrificed so many of their golden souls to create Anumidum's metal body if it were all in the name of grand theater." --Benould^•T•C 23:42, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

Well get to writing that Disappearance of the Dwarves article, then. Temple-Zero 23:52, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

Dway-mare

I think this is very old lore. Notice that the same forum post lists other pronunciations as Doon-Mare and Bow-Mare when both games opt for Done-mur and Boz-mur. True, it's the only evidence we have, but maybe we could hit it later on in the article, because Dway-mare sounds icky. Temple-Zero 14:32, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

Another way to check the pronunciation is from Oblivion's dialogues, although as far as I can tell, there is only one dialogue that mentions the Dwemer: "Who now knows the tale of how this Dwemer hammer came to embody the power of one of their most bitter foes?" said by Martin if you give up Volendrung for the Blood of the Daedra quest. To the extent that the voice actors were given feedback on pronunciation, that is. --Nephele^Talk 01:22, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

The voice actors were given bollocks for direction, but it's worth looking at anyways. Anyone got an unpacked .bsa? But how is Malacath an enemy of the Dwemer? The Dwemer predate him.Temple-Zero 19:59, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

Azura calls them dwee-mur in her monologue at the end of Tribunal, as well. --67.187.149.187 23:08, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Yup, that's right. Since Azura is considered quite profilic for Morrowind (not just a loose VA), I think we should at least add that pronounciation as well. The sources can help readers decide for themselves. I'll try to look up the precise dialogue later, so it can be added as source. --Timenn-<talk> 08:38, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I found it. I must have misremembered it as being from Tribunal. It's actually from the ending cinematic for vanilla Morrowind, after you finish the main quest. Here it is on Youtube for easy reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeeIOra-JKQ "The doomed dwee-mur's folly," as she says it. --67.187.149.187 22:25, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I should point out that the Dway-mare pronunciation comes from a very old dev forum post, not even an in-character document. It is easily overridden if it goes against voice actors and fan consensus. And words can be corrupted over time.Temple-Zero 17:02, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

So it's likely to be a post before the dialogue for Morrowind was recorded? Since the pronounciation hasn't deviated since then (as is the case with Daedra, for example) and Elliot has already added the IPA pronounciation, I think the matter is settled. --Timenn-<talk> 08:44, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Clean-up

When reading the article I noticed that some of the information in the article is somewhat "out of place" and should be organized some more. In particular, the second paragraph in the section "Architecture". Most, if not all of the information in this sectino needs to be moved as it is completely irrevalant to the section header. I started to work on this myself, however I decided to ask for the advice or abilities of a veteran UESP wiki-er. You can see this in the history logs where I began a transformation, then decided to revert my edit back to the previous version. Thanks in advance! Adoring Fan 00:05, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

Yagrum

Someone should add a pic of a still LIVING Dwemer (I'm too lazy). If you don't have Morrowind (like me (cd was shreaded)) why bother. It would be nice to see an actual Dwemer here though.

The problem with a picture of Yagrum is that he has Corprus and is bloated and disfigured, so he doesn't really look like a Dwemer would have. We can't have people getting confused and thinking all Dwemer were, fat, bloated, and walked around on mechanical legs. 86.138.86.141 18:18, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Theory

I have a personal opinion about what had happened to the Dwemer race after the War of the First Council. Maybe, as a result of the Battle of Red Mountain, Dagoth UR made the Dwemer become the Ash Slaves, zombies, and so forth. Maybe Sotha Sil went into hiding, and decided to create the clockwork city for the Dwemer? — Unsigned comment by Darkly (talk • contribs) at 03:34 on 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that it is all speculation. There is little enough evidence, and some even contradicts this. Take for example the Dwemer remains you can see in Bamz-Amschend, which indicate a more sudden departure. --Timenn < talk > 09:57, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Dagoth Ur did not reappear as a god until years after the disappearance. Bamz-Amschend reveals that the Dwemer there were burned to ash, while an examination of their philosophy and comments by scholars like Xal reveals the purpose of Numidium and some idea of their final fate.Temple-Zero 16:11, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Dwarven Spectres

If the Dwemer disappeared from the face of Mundus after the battle of Red Mountain, how are there ghosts of the dwarves roaming around the ruins? In fact, how did the Dwemer resurrect themselves as spectres in the first place?— Unsigned comment by Remorse1994 (talk • contribs) at 20:34 on 22 August 2009 (UTC)

By dying in the War of the First Council before their extinction.71.244.117.159 00:08, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

But they weren't necromancers or anything, so they shouldn't just come back from the dead at their own accord— Unsigned comment by Remorse1994 (talk • contribs) at 11:03 on 23 August 2009

Ghosts are not necessarily the work of necromancy.71.244.117.159 14:13, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

removed historical paragraph

Here it is, see edit summary.

All though Yagrum Bagarn does not even know what happen to the dwemer,what did happen was this. The Dwemer where diging in the Red Mountain region when they come across the heart of lorkhan,they used the tools Sunder and Keening to make themselvs immortal.Nerevar was a friend of dwemer king dumac dwarf-orc.Vivec wanted nerevar to start war with the dwemer but he said no,so when dagoth-ur(still good) found out dwarf kagrenac was useing the heart the build a new god nerevar went and asked there king if it were true and he said no(the rest kept it a secret from there king).So nerevar asked azura if it were true and she said it was,so the chimer and the dwemer were at war.In the war dagoth-ur killed kagrenac and took the tools,azura told Dagoth-Ur and Nerevar how to use the tools take away the dwarf's connection to the heart and all there year's caght up with them and they turned to dust and at that second the dwemer were gone.132.162.67.58 01:18, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Featured Article

I would really like to see this as a featured article, and I'm just speculating about what there is left to improve. There is certainly plenty of clear, concise information here, with pictures from multiple games to boot. The article covers every aspect of the subject that has reliable information avaiable, and includes extensive book links and references, as well as some excellent external links. The point about "proper refs" doesn't make much sense to me, but aside from that is there anything here that needs obvious improvement? I really like this article and enjoyed working on it back in the day, and would be happy to further improve it according to any suggestions you may have. -Itachi 20:55, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

The cleanup dates from this edit. The editor in question had something of a habit of leaving obscure "cleanup" or "incomplete" tags...

In this case, I think it's pretty clear though. At the moment, the references quote huge chunks of text, which isn't what's supposed to happen. Compare to the existing FA Lore:Black Marsh, which includes relevant quotes in the body text and puts the source in the reference.

I think there are a couple of other issues with the article too. First, a source for the pronunciation would be good. Second, there are multiple spelling issues - "worshipers" should be spelled with one "p" here. Third, the Language section is very poor - links to known books in Dwemeris would help, and I'm sure other links could be found.

That's a very quick glance... I'm sure there are more issues. In other words, it's a good article but I wouldn't support it for FA status at the moment. –rpeh •T•C•E• 00:18, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the thoughts. I'll see what I can do about it. -Itachi 09:00, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

'Worshiper' is the American spelling. Gets me every time, too. The only source for the pronunciation is an archived dev forum conversation from the Redguard era which conflicts with in-game voice files anyway. The only source for info on Dwemeris I am aware of is Hanging Gardens, and there are no books in Dwemeris except for unreadable glyphs or maybe some old Redguard puzzle clues. I'll look at the ref density.Temple-Zero 23:57, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Well some guide to the pronounciation from an actual developer is better than just speculation from the fans, even if it may be obsolete. I've never heard any in-game voices use the word "Dwemer." In Oblivion, "Dwarves" prevails completely, which makes sense seeing as that is the Imperial usage. As for the refs, since this is a lore article, refs are much more significant than in game-specific articles. People can easily verify information themselves in the games they own, but when information comes from multiple games and developer sources, it's more important to know exactly where we are getting the information from, so you can make your own judgements and interpretations. The Imperial Library is usually a trustworthy source, as they obtain most of their information from the developers themselves, which is why their pages on TES Lore are so much more detailed than ours - we haven't had the same access to developers, not the same manpower since 1995.

I think this article is certainly getting close to meeting the criteria of a Featured Article, but of course there's always room for improvement. -Itachi 09:36, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Outer Realms?

When talking about Yagrum Bagarn, the article states that existence is owed to the fact that he was in the “Outer Realms” when the Dwemer extinction occurred. However, I can't find any information defining exactly what the "Outer Realms" are. Is this known information? I assume that it's refering to either planes of oblivion or perhaps simply a distant land such as Yokuda or Aldmeris, but I could be wrong...

Can anyone tell me whether or not this is the case? ~ Eldraris Nerethi 16:00, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

AS far as I remember, the Outer Realms are never defined, nor does Yagrum's explanantion go any further than this. The Dwemer's extinction wouldn't be much of a mystery if everything about it was explained, but it's a pity this particular term remains undefined. This is just one of many unexplained conecpts in TES Lore that is left for the player to interpret. --Itachi 09:22, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Although my knowledge of Lore is pretty limited, I'd suppose he was in Oblivion or some other Daedric plane. --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:41, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Eruption?

Since in the Infernal City an eruption of Red Mountain caused most or all of the people on Vvardenfel to be transported to Oblivion (planes not game) could the Dwemer have vanished as a result of an earlier eruption?--TheAlbinoOrc^{any_questions?} 23:48, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I think it was just Sul and Vuhon who were transported to an Oblivion realm due to the imense amount of magicka released within the Ministry. Most of the rest of Vvardenfel was simply wiped away by the eruption. That's how I read it, at least. Dlarsh^(T,C) 02:26, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah. I need to read the book before coming up with theories next time. Lore is nice but not quite the same.--TheAlbinoOrc^{any_questions?} 16:32, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

The Calling

The article mentions "the Calling", which is an ability the Dwemer possess as evidenced in Chimarvamidium. As it is, the article states that the book implies it is a form of telepathy. I have to disagree with that; when I read Chimarvamidium, I thought that it was talking about a radio signal. I mean, when you look at the Dwemer race's technological advancements (compared to any other race) the notion of them being able to send basic radio signals is much more in line with what we know about them than the idea they possessed a race-wide mental link. We also know that whatever energy source powered the Dwemer's automatons was transmitted remotely. Granted that it is possible they used magic, but again, that seems rather un-Dwemer. I'm going to add the possibility of the Calling being a radio signal, but I'll leave in the bit about telepathy because after all, we do not know for certain. Flag-Waving American Patriot 12:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

I'll grant you that the Dwemer had an antipathy towards magic, but telepathy isn't necessarily magic. The note at the bottom of the book page suggests that the Psijic Order had the same ability, which implies it's a discipline that can be learned, and certainly excludes a built-in technological solution. rpeh •T•C•E• 15:57, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

From the in-game book's author's perspective yes, whatever the Dwemer did from inside Chimarvamidium might have the same results as what the Psijic Order's power. But to the average person in Tamriel, any kind of remote communication would be perceived as un-natural, magic, or psychic in nature; they would never even begin to think of a technology capable of it. I don't think it's fair to say that it excludes a technological solution since there is no definitive statement that says whatever the Dwemer had was THE SAME power that the Psijics had, it only says the powers-in-question had the same RESULTS. And the Psijics aren't exactly the most explained group either. I'm not going to make a case for a group of Psijics using CB radio sets here, but remember that there is nothing concrete about that power either. Since there are no CONCRETE FACTS to support either case, I think it's only fair that both options are included. Flag-Waving American Patriot 23:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the Dwemer's "antipathy" between magic is a misconception. I think that the Dwemer most likely combined magic and technology. As seen by Wraithguard, Sunder, and Keening, the Dwemer practiced enchantment, which is the art of embedding magic in a material possession. The Dwemer were also said to have created enchantments around Lorkhan's Heart. --Michaeldsuarez ^{(Talk) (Deeds)} 01:12, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Alright, forget what I said about their antipathy towards magic. But you can't deny that they place a higher focus on technology unless it's something INCREDIBLY powerful like the Heart of Lorkhan. Besides, I thought we agreed that telepathy wasn't magic? Flag-Waving American Patriot 02:16, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Why are we saying Telepathy isn't magic? Telekinesis is, it even has a school, Mysticism.--TheAlbinoOrc^{any_questions?} 12:54, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Something isn't magic simply because it started with the letters "Tele" - I'm pretty sure telephones and television aren't magic. "Tele" comes from the Greek (I think) for "far", that's all.

Incidentally, Wraithguard, Sunder, and Keening aren't conventionally-enchanted items either - they are "attuned" to produce the effects observed by a "tonal architect". rpeh •T•C•E• 13:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say it was because of the "Tele". Telepathy is the ability to read minds and/or communicate mentally. Telekinesis is the ability to move objects without touching them. Regardless of spelling the two are traditionally related. If they're related why would one be magical and the other not?--TheAlbinoOrc^{any_questions?} 14:00, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

No, they're not traditionally related. The only connection is the prefix. That was my point. rpeh •T•C•E• 14:04, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Rpeh is right, there is a huge difference between what one would call "magic" and the powers of the mind. "Magic" traditionally refers to some mystical power that comes from some unseen energy source (nature, another realm, divinity, etc...) whereas telepathy, telekinesis (whatever you choose in that branch of powers) comes from inside the human (or in this case Dwarf) mind. Flag-Waving American Patriot 05:16, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Disapearance

To quote Lore:Where_Were_You_..._Dragon_Broke

R'leyt-harhr, Khajiit, Tender to the Mane:

“Do you mean, where were the Khajiit when the Dragon Broke? R'leyt tells you where: recording it. 'One thousand eight years,' you've heard it. You think the Cyro-Nordics came up with that all on their own. You humans are better thieves than even Rajhin! While you were fighting wars with phantoms and giving birth to your own fathers, it was the Mane that watched the ja-Kha'jay, because the moons were the only constant, and you didn't have the sugar to see it. We'll give you credit: you broke Alkosh something fierce, and that's not easy. Just don't think you solved what you accomplished by it, or can ever solve it. You did it again with Big Walker, not once, but twice! Once at Rimmen, which we'll never learn to live with. The second time it was in Daggerfall, or was it Sentinel, or was it Wayrest, or was it in all three places at once? Get me, Cyrodiil? When will you wake up and realize what really happened to the Dwarves?”

Doesn't this suggest that the Dwemer didn't disappear as a result of their experiments with Kagrenac's Tools but rather as a result of a third Dragon Break caused by humans?--TAO^Huh? 22:21, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

It suggests that the speaker/writer thinks that, but doesn't necessarily mean that it's true. I'm not a big Lore editor, but I would think that that could go into the article, provided it were worded along the lines of "R'leyt-harhr thinks there could be another explanation...". – Robin Hood↝talk 23:48, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Animunculi

Should the singular of animunculi be animunculus? That seems right to me, but that's only based on Latin, not Morrowind.... In any event, I edited the caption on the image to make it so. If somebody knows better, please do correct. — Unsigned comment by 76.90.139.231 (talk) at 19:08 on 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I can't find a reference to it being spelled like this, it is easier to go with the in-game spelling in this case. Unfortunately we do not even know the entire Dwemer Alphabet, let alone how it treats plural objects. Maybe this will change in time but I believe it should remain as it is until we have more information on the Dwemer Language, or at least a reference to them being called Animunculus instead of Animunculi. --AKB ^Talk 19:15, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Didn't the greeks do something with the last letters (they become "US") I think. My teachers will be annoyed if it is wrong :( JackTurbo95 19:47, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Once again we don't know that much about the Dwemer language, though as it is it appears to be little more that a copy of the English language with different characters (Which I know is a Germanic language, not Romantic, but still...) we still don't know that much about it. The Dwemer are going to be back in Skyrim so we might get an answer then but until then we have no reason to believe that the singular version of Animunculi is Animunculus. It is easier to follow in game sources in these situations. If anyone can provide an in-game source that confirms the anons edit I will cede the point, but until then the in-game version is Animunculi, not Animunculus. --AKB ^Talk 19:56, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Googling for "dwemer animunculus" only gets a handful of results, all from mods and other fan works. I agree that using "animunculi" for the singular doesn't sound right, but AKB has a point. I wouldn't mind what happens either way. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:52, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

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