Oblivion talk:The Complete Damage Formula

Spell DamageEdit

Good question from a recent ESF thread: what about the two GMSTs "fMagicResistTargetWillpowerBase" and "fMagicResistTargetWillpowerMult"? Do these have any effect? Sorry, forgot to sign in! --Dev akm 17:00, 31 May 2007 (EDT)

Modifiable SettingsEdit

This new section looks great! Good job! Checking the results of the formula now. Only problem I see right away is the formula doesn't quite agree with the one at the top of the page (it has an extra /2 at the end). I'll post more feedback later. behippo has agreed to help double-check it. --Dev akm 13:32, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

Thanks! The /2 in the equation at the top of the page is from the fact that two parameters (fDamageWeaponConditionBase and fDamageWeaponConditionMult) are both 0.5. So in the equation at the bottom that explicitly shows all the parameters, it's not supposed to appear. --Nephele^Talk 14:03, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

FDamageWeaponMultEdit

How does FDamageWeaponMult play into these calculations? I didn't see anything about it here. Thanks! --Dev akm 13:07, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Hmmm, that's a pretty good question :) If the default value of FDamageWeaponMult was 1, everything would make sense. But as it stands, I don't really see how it can fit into the equations. Possibilities seem to be that:

It's ignored
It's somehow been merged into one of the other factors on this page, or
There's invisible factor of 2 that's been thrown in and counteracts it (at least for the default value).

I think at one point I checked these equations against the CS settings, and all of the factors seemed to be directly related to various damage-type settings without any missing factors of 2), which would argue against option #2. But I should do that again (and actually document it in the article this time around!) to be sure. If someone wanted to experiment with a mod, we could confirm or deny #1 (maybe you've already done that?)

Looks like this might take some more investigation... or does anyone else have any ideas how to make sense of this? --Nephele^Talk 14:55, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Ugh! I had just finished created a whole new section decoding all the equations into their CS settings, then my browser crashed.... Anyway, the result was #2 is correct, my memory was wrong. fDamageWeaponMult is currently rolled into the Damage equation, in a somewhat ugly way. The attribute-based section has been divided by 10; the skill-based section has been multiplied by 5, so all in all there is a hidden factor of 0.5 in the equation. I'll get around to recreating the new section that got zapped at some point today (before I forget everything I figured out), but figured I'd provide a quick answer here first. --Nephele^Talk 15:56, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Awesome! Thanks for the quick response! I'm basically trying to sort out some really strange problems where people are seeing very wild damage values on weapons (like wildly higher than what's in the CS, even without the repair value being munged), so I'm trying to track down which game settings alter it and how. While you're at it, did you figure out how FDamageSkillBase and fDamageSkillMult play in there as well? Thanks! --Dev akm 16:03, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Also looks like the CS Wiki and this page are out of sync regarding how the related attribute value is calculated. The FDamageStrengthBase claims the formula is:

  ( fDamageStrengthBase / 10 ) * ( attribute ) * ( fDamageStrengthMult / 1000 )

Where this page suggest + attrib instead of * attrib. Which is correct? :) --Dev akm 16:11, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Argh! Are these related, too? FDamageWeaponConditionBase and FDamageWeaponConditionMult ... --Dev akm 16:22, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Check the version of the page destroyed by my browser for all the answers...

OK, not too helpful ;) I had worked all those details out there, so I'll go ahead and reconstruct it. But really all I did was make educated guesses about how the variables would fit into the existing equations and make them still work out properly. Since I was able to do it without any unaccounted for factors, it seemed like a reasonable guess. Really verifying it would require putting together some mods that change those settings and seeing whether the final answer makes sense, which I definitely can not do right now. But perhaps if I give you a starting point, you could then see whether or not the equation works?

I will try to do that. I may enlist the help of the OBSE crew, if I can, just to give an added layer of accuracy.--Dev akm 17:36, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

As for the strength equation, I'm pretty sure it has to be addition rather than multiplication. With addition at 100 skill and 100 strength (and default settings) you end up doing damage that's 1.0625*Base. If it was multiplication, you'd end up doing only 0.31875*Base damage. Given that people definitely end up doing damage near base values with maxed attributes, the latter answer doesn't work too well. --Nephele^Talk 17:06, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Agreed! I suspect the formula is wrong on the CS Wiki.--Dev akm 17:36, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

GeneralEdit

What about if the opponent blocks it with their shield (and their block skill is such that they would take damage)? How do you calculate armor absorbtion? How does enchanged damage (fire damage on a sword) work?

I also relize this is duplicated information, but I think it is highly desirable to be able to go to one page and step through calculating your damage -- Lorenz03Tx

Yep, I can see your point. Between all the resist/weakness effects, shield effects, reflect spell, reflect damage, spell absorption, on top of just plain old bashing and armor, there are alot of things that can come into play. And I think having it all in one place will help to figure out how all those things interact.

One answer: Elemental damage (fire, frost, shock) is not affected by armor; it's only affected by resist fire/frost/shock (which is also part of the fire/frost/shock shield spells). But I'm confused about the resist effects: I'm not sure whether they reduce the percentage of each attack, or alternatively whether sometimes you get full damage, other times no damage (I think at least sometimes it's the latter, because occasionally on the screen a message will flash up about "frost damage resisted").

Another question: how does reflect damage come into all of this: do you reflect a fraction of the damage, and then the armor kicks in or the other way around. In other words, if you have 85% armor and 10% reflect damage and someone hits you with a 20 pt attack, how much damage do you take, and how much damage does your attacker take? I'm guessing that the reflect damage happens first, so your enemy takes 2 pts, then you take 0.15*18=2.7 pts. Because if was the other way around (the enemy would only take 10% of 3pts damage, i.e. 0.3), it doesn't seem feasible for a rat to be killed just from reflected damage (which is my favorite part of reflect damage: having those pesky annoying critters just kill themselves without me having to do anything). But I'm not sure. --Nephele 13:03, 22 July 2006 (EDT)

Weakness/Resistances affect the magnitude of effects, shield effects affect the combined armor. Reflect Spell/Spell Absorption are a % chance of that action. Reflect damage is a percentage of the total damage which is resisted by you and dealt to the attacker. Internally the game tracks health to the hundredths so you could kill somebody by hitting them with .01 damage repeatedly. Tedrek 11:42, 30 September 2006 (EDT)

I'm pretty sure damage reflection happens before armor reduction. Accoring to the WIKI article on rats they have 4 hitpoints and 2 attack points. If you'd have 100% damage reflection they'd take either 2 or 0.3 points of damage (reflection first vs armor rating first). With the second option a rat would need to make 14 hits in order to kill itself. In my games rats kill themselves in 5 hits or so with 85% armor rating and an unknown amount of damage reflection. So it has to be that damage reflection happens before armor rating is taken into account, unless I had 1333% damage reflection.

Hand-To-Hand?Edit

How is damange calculated for just punching people? --Rlpowell 18:28, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

The equation I've seen is:

Damage = 1 + ModifiedSkill/100 * Strength/100 * 10

I haven't verified it at all; it would be interesting to get confirmation of whether the equation works, and if so, add it to this page. --Nephele 21:21, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

The TESCSWiki provides an equation for hand to hand damage that reduces to

Damage = 1 + ModifiedSkill/100 * Strength/100 * 10.5

It also discusses fatigue damage done by hand to hand. This equation almost matches the one that I had previously quoted, has a more definitive source, and shows how the equation relates to known CS settings. So I'm going to assume that it's correct. If anyone would like to test it in-game, I'd be interested in hearing whether or not it really works. --17:39, 8 February 2007 (EST)

The Fatigue modifier seems quite odd to me. By modifying the damage with this formula, you'll get less than half as mush damage... Pascal 13:39, 9 September 2006 (EDT)

A couple of notes about my additions. The OpponentWeaponResistance is not very well tested (like at all) and could be quite wrong. Fatigue when using Bows was not well tested but appears to be correct, not that it should matter at skills over 25, as is the calculation for weapon damage. Finally, it is unclear how many steps the game uses internally for these calculations and whether rounding occurs internally which would make this formula occasionally wrong. In reply to the last, the fatigue formula as written scales damage between 100% and 50%, it never goes below 50% of the possible damage due to fatigue. Tedrek 11:42, 30 September 2006 (EDT)

Do you get a sneak attack bonus when using hand to hand combat, for example when killing someone in their sleep?86.131.89.148 04:02, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

Yes. You get exactly the same bonus for H2H as you do for any other weapon. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:56, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

ModifiedSkill ?Edit

Hi. Is "ModifiedSkill" defined somewhere? Is it the same thing as "EffectiveSkill" [1]? Thanks in advance, - Laisren 11:06, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

I've changed the article to spell out the definition of Modified Skill in more detail. But, yes, it is basically the same as CSWiki's effective skill. --Nephele^Talk 12:08, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

MaxWeaponHealthEdit

I'm curious about the MaxWeaponHealth entry here. Is that assumed to always be 100? Is there any way to change it? The reason I ask is because if you have Master-level Armorer skill, then MaxWeaponHealth wouldn't make sense to be 125, because that would produce the same values as 100, just with a slower drop-off to damage due to wear: (125/125 + 1) = (100/100 + 1), but that's obviously not the case. Therefore I assume that MaxWeaponHealth is always 100, in which case, why not just put 100 directly into the formula? --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 11:45, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, MaxWeaponHealth probably wasn't a good choice of names; I've changed it to BaseWeaponHealth instead. It should be the weapon's health when it is 100% repaired. In terms of the game mechanics, the equation is probabably using the real health values, not the percentage values shown in your stats screen. In other words, for Spell Breaker, BaseWeaponHealth is 1500. However, for players it's probably easier to plug in the percentage value, in which case you could just treat BaseWeaponHealth as 100%. --Nephele^Talk 20:40, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

You're undoubtedly right about the real health being used rather than the percentage shown in game; I wasn't thinking of that at the time. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 11:36, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

Base weapon damageEdit

(moved from User_talk:Nephele#Base_weapon_damage)

Hi Nephele I was wondering what statistics UESP uses for base weapon damage. I always thought it was 100 skill, 100 attribute, and 100% weapon health. So I used the weapon damage formula.

WeaponRating = BaseWeaponDamage * 0.5 * ( 0.75 + Attribute * 0.005 ) * ( 0.2 + ModifiedSkill * 0.015 ) * ( WeaponHealth/MaxWeaponHealth + 1 )/2

I was trying to make the right side of the equation equal to BaseWeaponDamage * 1 in order to figure out what stats the BaseWeaponDamage were based on. I plugged in 100 for Attribute and WeaponHealth to make sure I would also get 100 for ModifiedSkill. But I got 93.3333. Am I right about this or am I missing something? Kevindrosario 10:16, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

The BaseWeaponDamage is taken directly from the Construction Set, it's not based on what is observed in-game (though they do match). If we assume for a moment that your weapon is perfectly healthy but that your Armorer rating is too low to allow 125%, the "* ( WeaponHealth/MaxWeaponHealth + 1 )/2" reduces to "* 1", so that's gone. But you must have gone wrong somewhere because in reality 100 for all three gives:

WeaponRating = BaseWeaponDamage * 0.5 * ( 0.75 + 100 * 0.005 ) * ( 0.2 + 100 * 0.015 ) * ( 100/100 + 1 )/2
WeaponRating = BaseWeaponDamage * 0.5 * ( 1.25 ) * ( 1.7 ) * ( 2 )/2
WeaponRating = BaseWeaponDamage * 0.5 * 1.25 * 1.7
WeaponRating = BaseWeaponDamage * 0.5 * 1.25 * 1.7
WeaponRating = BaseWeaponDamage * 1.0625

If you want to plug in equal values for Skill and Attribute and assume 100% weapon health, then you need about 95 to get approximately BaseWeaponDamage * 1. If you want to plug in equal values across the board, then it's closer to 97. But to put it simply, there's no straight-forward way of achieving precisely WeaponRating = BaseWeaponDamage. As to the reasoning behind this, I would assume it's so that you're able to get roughly WR = BWD for a few swings of your weapon before damage truly starts to take a toll. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 11:36, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Strength Over 100Edit

I recently confirmed that raising strength significantly over one hundred (about 150str (a 50 pt jump) caused my damage to jump from 11 to 14) causes h2h dmage to continue to rise, unlike other weapons. So I think something should be added to the wiki page explaining this. Please attempt to verify this in case I was mistaken, but my hand to hand was already 103, and I only modified STR. 68.10.98.63 12:51, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

I was just now messing around with the console and found that I got no such bonus when pumping strength past 100. This could be an anomaly, as I was playing the GotY RU release, but even when I went player.setav strength 255, I got 11 damage still. — Unsigned comment by 32.158.217.217 (talk) at 18:55 on 8 October 2008

I too max out at 11 damage, no matter what I set my Strength or Hand to Hand skill to. Perhaps you're running some kind of mod that removes the cap, or there was an older version of the game that didn't cap it? --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 19:08, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

Creature Attack DamageEdit

Has anyone determined the exact formula for Creature Attack Damage? Is it modified at all by the weapon the creature uses? (i.e., on Goblins, Xivilai). On PC Level Offset creatures, is it multiplied by their level without any limit? Is it resisted by Resist Normal Weapons? Do they gain any benefit by using a silver weapon?--Dev akm 11:20, 2 November 2008 (EST)

from what i can tell there are two major factors related to creature damage

FCreatureCalcDamage, and the weapon, if any they are holding. unarmed damage seems to be handled by the first value, since raising the unarmed damage values didn't change creature damage, and the weapons are seeming to follow the normal weapon damage formula, this is not exact science, but with my exaggerated values i can see the relation, creature damage raise with weapons when the weapon damage formula is raised. but does not raise when the hand to hand formula is raised.— Unsigned comment by 99.66.39.151 (talk) at 10:34 on 28 December 2009

Oblivion.ini Sneak Damage Multiplier Modding?Edit

I have always disliked that you are unable to get any damage mulitplier while sneak-attaking with a 2-handed weapon (even a smaller multiplier than the standard 6x would be nice). Is there a specific line in the Oblivion.ini that I can modify to fix that problem for 2h weapons? If so, I would appreciate if anyone could help me out. Vashmanseven 22:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I can't be 100% certain without more research, but it looks to me like this restriction might be hard-coded. I'll have a better look later on and get back to you on this if I find anything more definitive. —Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 22:24, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

For convenience: maximum possible weapon ratingEdit

Maximizing every value within the constraints (attribute and skill = 100, weapon health = 125%), the maximum damage you can do with a weapon is 1.1953125 times its base damage, or a little under 20% more than the base damage. This explains how Umbra deals 33 damage in the best-case scenario (or 200 with a sneak attack.) With a moderate Restoration skill it's surprisingly easy to get this damage. Just thought this should be here for the curious, though maybe not in the main article.

For a Deadric bow and arrow, the maximum possible damage then is 43, or 129 if sneaking.

The minimum possible damage is possibly also interesting, but less so, as few people will have the desire and ability to deal the minimum possible damage (moreover, your weapon would have to be broken and therefore unusable in order to accomplish it.) --Nocturnal 01:21, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

i fail to see how umbra can do 200 with a sneak attack, can someone please explain? sneak attacks only give x3 at most... Mikeyboy52 09:29, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

No. When you're an apprentice in sneak, you gain a 6x damage bonus with a one-handed weapon. 6 x 33 = 198. ^Talk Wolok gro-Barok _{Contributions} 11:53, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure that applies to all weapons? because i could have sword with bow+arrow that i get X3 with 100 sneak, but its been awhile since i used that char. Mikeyboy52 13:16, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

For Marksman weapons the damage multiplier does not exceed 3. ^Talk Wolok gro-Barok _{Contributions} 19:31, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Usually true (now I remember all those hours of playing I used to do) but if you shoot the arrow, change to a shortsword (thats what i use) before the arrow hits, you get a X6 multiplier. so i think hatreds bow and arrows would have the maximum damage. :P :PMikeyboy52 07:32, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Rounded up or down?Edit

As I'm working on NPC stats, I'd need to know if the damage calculation is rounded up or down. I'm sorry if this has been asked before, or if it's stated somewhere, but I haven't seen it anywhere... I assume it's rounded down, but I may be wrong. So for e.g. 1.83103 damage, does that turn into 1 damage or 2? ~ Dwarfmp 00:32, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

A Question about Bow DamageEdit

Now, this formula claims to be "complete"; however, I've noticed that there is one thing which is missing. If you simply click to draw back your bow, thus allowing the arrow to release as soon as possible, it does less damage than it would if you held the shoot button down for a second and allowed your character to pull the arrow properly into position. Now, I assume that the formula on the page gives the damage which occurs when the bow is fully drawn back. However, there are no numbers that I see which tell how much less damage is done if you don't fully draw it back. I therefore believe that this damage formula is incomplete, unless someone can convince me otherwise or until some way to numerically take into account the drawing back of the arrow is made. 72.70.133.215 01:49, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

When doing a "rapid shot" the formula applies, with a PowerAttackMultiplier of 1. When the bow is fully drawn back, it is considered a Basic Power Attack for this context, thus PowerAttackMultiplier = 2.5 --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 15:33, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Sneak Power Attack?Edit

Just for variation, I've been sneaking up on some people and unleashing undetected improved standing power attacks. Then I accidently did a regular sneak attack, and ... did the same damage? So I tried a few more times, and it seems Sneak Power Attacks "only" uses the Sneak Multiplier, not both. Andrew Red 09:51, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Stats don't affect Creature DamageEdit

It has to be said somewhere.

Storm Atronach has 50STR and 50 HandtoHand. He hit me for 160 damage per punch. I buffed both of them to 100 with fortify spells and he still hit me for 160 damage per punch. Therefore stats don't affect creature damage. — Unsigned comment by 64.203.14.29 (talk) at 18:03 on 9 September 2020 (UTC)

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