Online talk:Treasures

The ListEdit

The work on the list has already been started in Jimeee's sandbox. Should we ask Jimeee to copy it here?  ~Shuryard (talk) 04:38, 24 April 2015 (GMT)

Just move it. If it was his text, you should ask, but it's just a table with in-game text, it should be fine. Jeancey (talk) 07:24, 24 April 2015 (GMT)

I think I found all the names and descriptions in the language file that Daveh uploaded in March. I will add values and icons to the ones I've already found and then move it here, possibly today.  ~Shuryard (talk) 13:40, 24 April 2015 (GMT)

Yes Done.  ~Shuryard (talk) 19:21, 24 April 2015 (GMT)

SplitEdit

The page is very long, 2257 rows, as of now. I wonder if people with slower Internet connections can even browse it, not to mention the challenge of adding icons and links. I propose we split it, I volunteer to do that. Splitting the table by item quality won't make much sense, since there will be lots of items of fine quality, while the page with epic ones will be relatively short. Moreover, we don't know the quality of all items yet. Many items are not linked to any particular Alliance and can be found anywhere, so, besides being a very meticulous sorting job, such split won't make a lot of sense either. Furthermore, a person looking for an item will have to figure out where to look first. So, I think it would be best if it is split alphabetically: Online:Contraband A, Online:Contraband B, Online:Contraband C, etc. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?  ~Shuryard (talk) 15:18, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Alphabetical would work, but I'd like to see them sorted by location eventually. —Legoless (talk) 15:25, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Ok, I'll start working on alphabetical and later on we can add Contraband-by-Zone, or something along those lines, to {{ESO Contraband}} menu.  ~Shuryard (talk) 20:06, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure how zone based they are. While I've gotten many zone-specific ones, I've also gotten zone-specific ones outside of the zone they seem to be referencing, like finding a House Redoran Victory Flag on Auridon or a Snuffbox with Montclair Crest in Eastmarch. From what I can tell, the zone specific ones simply have a higher chance to be found in a container in their zone, but they don't HAVE to be found there. You can find any item in any zone, it's just less likely to find them in a zone that isn't connected to the item. If that makes sense. Jeancey (talk) 20:10, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

As I see it, if we are to sort them by location, it would be more in a "related to" kind of sense. For instance, Branch of Falinesti is related to Valenwood, obviously, while Orc Sweat Cologne, An expensive fragrance created by alchemists in Aldcroft, popular with wealthy Bretons who want to unleash their inner Orc., would be in reference to High Rock. However, not all of them can be sorted that way, as some are just plain items, e.g., Pocket Knife, Too small to be used in combat, this small knife would be perfect for general daily use while out and about.  ~Shuryard (talk) 21:09, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Didn't know the zone-specific ones could be found outside that zone, probably best to disregard the location sorting then. —Legoless (talk) 22:24, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

CitationsEdit

Is there a specific format for referencing a contraband item in lore articles? - Dinmenel (talk) 19:50, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

New Wrothgar contrabandEdit

Does anyone with some datamining knowledge have the list of new contraband items they added with the latest DLC? Would love to start working on that soon. Contraptions (talk) 07:49, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

I've mined them and put the list in my sandbox for you. Sadly, I can't determine the icons that way. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 17:08, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! Do I have to add each individual entry to the main contraband pages manually or is there a bot that can help with that? I know that the quality and icons have to be discovered manually though. Contraptions (talk) 06:43, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

You can post bot requests here to see if anyone can help. —Legoless (talk) 12:38, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

You can find icons and quality in the ESO Item Database. Here is the Contraband section. I don't know if it would be possible, but a bot may be able to go through that list and pull the names, icons, and quality. --Enodoc (talk) 13:12, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Adding Item ID and RegionsEdit

Would it be prudent to include Item IDs (ex: |H1:item:71412:4:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1:1:0:0|h|h) and Regions (ex: Wrothgar) in the list? Specifically for those who wish to link the item in-game without actually possessing the item. Would be handy for roleplayers to access and keep their inventories clean, or to just show someone in-game some of the funny stuff there is to be found. Likewise, attaching a region would make it easier for someone who is looking to actually possess said item to go out and find it. — Unsigned comment by Eiagra (talk • contribs) at 02:17 on 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Contraband typesEdit

It seems that there will now be categories that each individual contraband item can belong to. This may have gameplay significance since certain quests require specific types of contraband eg. Crafting Tools, Personal Items etc. Should we add an extra column to list the "type" that each item belongs to, preferably sortable? Contraptions (talk) 12:29, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Sure, but some items have more than just one category. How to solve that? Tib (talk) 13:11, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Haven't seen this mechanic yet, but an extra row makes sense. The alternative would be splitting up this list by type, although that's far from ideal. If an item has multiple different categories, simply listing them separated by comma seems fine. The table wouldn't be sortable though. —Legoless (talk) 13:14, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Absolutely. Is there by the way any possibility to automatize the process..? Probably not..? Adding a couple thousand items' categories manually sounds like a lot of mechanical work :/ Tib (talk) 14:55, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Sounds like something I would do :P If the type is present in the data at all, all we need to to figure out which parameter determines the type and what each number equates to and then a bot should (theoretically) be able to do it. Jeancey (talk) 17:42, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

This is definitely something that's worth investigating to see if we can get the most out of it. I'll look into some ways of trying to use these types to generate filter lists; such a feature would be invaluable if we could get it to work. As for the data itself, that's easy; there's a new entry called "tags" in the item data, and they're just in there as text. --Enodoc (talk) 10:30, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Dropping this link here for future reference: http://esoitem.uesp.net/dumpMinedItems.php?type=56&output=html&version=1.9pts&fields=icon,name,description,value,tags Hopefully once the code for DumpMinedItems is updated, that should be able to show all the tags for all the items. I'm not sure how the bot works, but it should be able to go through a table like that with all the tags in it and attach them to the correct items on the pages.

I'm also running a concept test using #lst on Contraband Q (since it's quite a short list). In theory, we should be able to use that to great effect in viewing contraband by type, and once all the tags are in place, the bot should be able to add the necessary sectioning commands. Below is an example of output of #lst usage, showing all Q "Oddities" followed by all Q "Trifles and Ornaments".

Icon	Item	Description	Value	Tags

Enodoc (talk) 11:17, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

If I understand it correctly, then this is just awesome. Thanks Enodoc for looking into this! Tib (talk) 11:29, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Following Jeancey's suggestion I've also created a new template for Contraband to make handling of the info a bit easier: {{ESO Contraband Item}}. I've put in a bot request to get the info moved into the template. --Enodoc (talk) 13:52, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

(←) Would it be possible to include the Tags separately part of this template? So that instead of "|Dolls, Oddities" you'd have "|Dolls|Oddities", which could then be automatically worked into the HTML tags around each entry. You'd have to make those the last parameters, or maybe name them, e.g. "|tag1=Dolls|tag2=Oddities". Right now, the Contraband entries are very difficult to read and edit what with all the redundancy.

Also, at least on the machine I'm currently using, those Contraband type pages won't even load, so we probably need to do something about that. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 17:43, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

I don't think so. From what I understand from the manual, lst doesn't function from inside a template. Not sure what to do about the page not loading; maybe all those transclusions in one page are too much for the server to process? We could try splitting it up, but that kinda defeats the purpose. --Enodoc (talk) 18:53, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

I have one suggestion that might make these work. It seems only the larger category pages are broken. Could we split things up like "Artwork (A-M)", "Artwork (N-Z)", or some such? I've seen the way the pages are setup (from the ones I can actually load), it'd be trivial to split them up by ranges of letters. My guess is you won't need more than two for any category, just based on the fact that some of the pages do work. As for defeating the purpose - a page which simply loads an error message has even less purpose, so if we can't solve that problem, at least we can work around it. (Or at least you can. I can't even load those pages for the purposes of editing them. Never seen a page on this site error that badly...) — TheRealLurlock (talk) 15:29, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

"Contraband" name used in game?Edit

The article has the title "Contraband", but I've just edited the content to reflect that the name used in-game is "Treasure". Is "Contraband" actually used anywhere? Or had it been previously? If not, perhaps the article itself could be renamed (then again there seem to be a large number of related subpages and templates using the name too so... maybe fixing that all would be a very low priority)

I'm aware that they were originally created purely for the Justice system, but their use has since expanded far beyond that. Also the news posts about the Jesters Festival still refer to them as "Jokey Stealies" implying they're stolen, but the ones you get now have at least already been laundered. --Alcolol (talk) 08:52, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

I think there is/was an attempt to have "Contraband" as a subclass for "Treasure" that is marked stolen. I have seen other treasure being removed from subpages here and there. But the name doesn't appear with that meaning in the game. There is a help topic named "Contraband" under "Justice", but it refers to any stolen item, not just treasure. That's about it for ingame references. --Alfwyn (talk) 09:33, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

The other side of that is "Treasures" used to mean something else, and I'm not sure how many items still use that label based on the old definition. If it's none, then we can probably safely update all the Contraband pages. --Enodoc (talk) 18:45, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

"Contraband" nameEdit

As per the immediately preceding discussion, this page has been treated as a "hub" page for items of the Treasure type. This "Contraband" categorisation, which primarily exists in tutorial tooltips. Relying on these tooltips—of which there are only several—for the name "Contraband" means that it is quite possible that readers will not encounter the part of the game the name comes from, and may become confused as to why the bulk of Treasure items are in this category. Any potential page for Treasure itself would have to content with multiple different categorisation systems developed to deal with Antiquity treasures, with the random treasures such as Undaunted Plunder and the Mark of the Welkynars, and the alphabetical Contraband pages themselves, however, which would put into question the purpose of a Treasure page if it could not apply a rational categorisation to treasures and, indeed, present an irrational one. The term "Contraband" should almost certainly be replaced when considering the current set of pages describes a type of item rather than Contraband at large, but that raises the question of what to rename to. To rename to "Treasure" would be to, as previously mentioned, open a can of worms; but to invent a label out of whole cloth may not be a preferable solution. — J. J. Fullerton _﴾talk﴿ 20:25, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

After some concerns were addressed, mainly over how it explained the content of this page, and what was being excluded from it, I think this page is an alright hub for these items. As far as I know, these items were originally introduced to the game through a new Contraband loot system (although my memory may not be entirely correct there). I do think "Treasure" would be a slightly more descriptive name, but considering the history of the page and these items, and the explanation for why we are listing what we are here that has since been added, it is better where it is right now. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 20:56, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

I think Treasures would be more accurate (as I said above), since we are specifically defining here a subgroup of Treasures (which is easier to accurately define than a subgroup of Contraband). The concept of Contraband as a whole can go over to the Justice page, since it is entirely related to that system. That can then link back here, and would also mean that anything else considered Contraband can be linked from there as well. Other Treasures, like Antiquity Treasures, can be linked out of the Treasures page in the same way as Antiquity Furnishings are linked out of Furnishings. --Enodoc (talk) 21:13, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

I would also absolutely be fine with this solution, if this is the direction we want to go in. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 21:30, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Contraband is no longer an accurate name for these items since a lot of them have since been used elsewhere in the game as non-stolen loot, e.g. from event boxes. I think Treasures is a good hub name. —⁠Legoless (talk) 19:43, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Just learned about this, and this has been one of my complaints about this page. This page should be renamed to treasures.Zebendal (talk) 02:45, 4 May 2021 (UTC)