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User talk:Legoless

Image Requests

This is a courtesy notice that I've removed your requests for pre-Update 10 images from last April. As Enodoc pointed out any remaining desired images were unable to be fulfilled after 30th May. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 21:30, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

It was actually Enodoc's, but thanks. —Legoless (talk) 21:45, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Regional Alterations and Edge-Cases

There's a few places on Vvardenfell which don't really match their regional allocations per TES3, due to changes in the climate of the region. What would you say to changing their region? Examples:

  • Balmora - Due to the similarity in vegetation coverage, this may more logically fit into the Bitter Coast region. (The same goes for Shulk Mine, Rethan Manor, and Vassir-Didanat, which would fit better into Bitter Coast than Ascadian Isles by position.)
  • Molag Mar - Again, the surrounding area is much more green, and matches Azura's Coast more than it does Molag Amur.
  • Ularra - They completely relocated this one. It was previously right by the Dagoth Ur citadel, and now it's next to West Gash wayshrine. Never mind, I guess.
  • Tel Mora - This appears to be much closer to Vos (both politically and physically), so perhaps Tel Mora could be considered Grazelands as well. (And then for cohesion, Esutanamus probably could be too.)

We could also make a decision over whether to consider Zafirbel Bay and Azura's Coast separate regions, or not. --Enodoc (talk) 08:03, 18 May 2017 (EDT)

I'm not sure if we necessarily need to categorise ESOMW places by region, but rather should only mention regions for descriptive purposes. If it's an edge case or if the climate doesn't match TESIII's established regions, I don't think we can make a lore-based determination one way or the other. The Azura's Coast/Zafirbel Bay conundrum is the perfect example of this; clearly Zafirbel is a subregion or geographical area, but it's really more a question of lore when we're not given strict region data like in TESIII. I say if it's unclear, we state as much.
The real question in my mind is what we're meant to do with subzones. Vvardenfell, to the best of my knowledge, has none. The main issue will therefore be revamping {{Online Subzones}} to match. It may finally be time to deprecate that particular template and add a new zone footer to accommodate Vvardenfell, as was our original setup. The subzones can stick around on old place pages (and may still be applicable to Murkmire if it ever sees the light of day) but really should probably be treated as secondary information now that all traces have been purposefully removed from the game. {{Online Subzones}} can remain on subzone pages for navigation, and a new Vvardenfell-friendly Online Zone footer can replace it on the main zone articles. —Legoless (talk) 11:34, 18 May 2017 (EDT)
Hmm, I was thinking we could just use the geographical regions as a replacement for subzones. --Enodoc (talk) 13:16, 18 May 2017 (EDT)
That was my thinking as well, but the problems you outlined above make it sound like we should finally just bite the bullet on this one. Border cases without guiding subzone maps are just a nightmare, and cause undesirable lore implications if we try to match up physical characteristics with pre-existing regional boundaries. —Legoless (talk) 13:33, 18 May 2017 (EDT)
I was going to make the regional maps myself, once the edge cases had been decided upon :D Making regional divisions on the Vvardenfell map based on physical characteristics would be easy. And we're almost certain to need pages for the regions anyway, since most of them are named somewhere in passing in-game; then we'd need to say x,y,z places appear in those regions, otherwise the pages are lacking content. I know what you mean though, that would make it seem like we were writing the lore ourselves. --Enodoc (talk) 14:20, 18 May 2017 (EDT)
I'm not sure we need Vvardenfell region pages for the same reason we deleted the province pages: they aren't a meaningful division in the context of the game. It certainly wouldn't hurt to have them if you're planning on making maps etc., but they're not Subzones in the sense used by the game. Vvardenfell is the first large zone to be released that outright eschews the subzone system present at release and reasonably visible right up until Orsinium.
Making up our own terms for the Wrothgar subzones was excusable giving their very apparent 3-way split, but personally I don't see the point misusing the term with regards to places in Vvardenfell. Going forward, it will continue to become an even bigger issue; we're lucky to actually know the names of the biomes on Vvardenfell, but what are we gonna do when the next zone is added? Vvardenfell is a clear departure from that system, which in truth has been deprecated since they overhauled the group finder.
If we really want to use biomes for categorisation purposes, it might be worth adding a Region section to the infobox per our approach in the open-world singleplayer games, or something to that effect. Co-opting the old subzone system doesn't seem accurate to me. —Legoless (talk) 16:50, 18 May 2017 (EDT)
Just wanted to point out that the devs say in this post that the climate of Morrowind is drastically different in the time of ESO anyway due to the lack of ash storms. So I don't think the presence of trees around Balmora, for example, should exclude it from being in West Gash. -likelolwhat talk lulzy to me 17:39, 18 May 2017 (EDT)
I don't think the rest of West Gash really has the same flora as the immediate surroundings of Balmora. But no, I don't want to co-opt the old subzone system that way either. I'd much rather do it in reverse, and deprecate the old subzones in favour of turning them all into regions. --Enodoc (talk) 19:51, 18 May 2017 (EDT)
Actually I think we're all good. It seems someone at Prima did all the hard work for us: [1] . So I think this time we can go back to the original plan of sticking places in regions without issue. --Enodoc (talk) 08:48, 19 May 2017 (EDT)

I went with that name instead of just "GOG" (or the older "Good Old Games") since it's how they style themselves. If you visit their site, it's what's on their logo, what's in their page titles. And it's also how they're called on Wikipedia. Steam, on the other hand, just call itself Steam. --Gez (talk) 16:27, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Odd, we've been using simply "GOG" for a while now, as have most media outlets that I've seen. Might be best to use a bot to replace them if is the only acceptable name. —Legoless (talk) 16:31, 4 June 2017 (UTC)


To clarify my edit, a statement in Lord of Souls implies Solstheim had been contested to some degree between Morrowind and Skyrim for quite a lot longer than just the early 4th Era. From page 207 or thereabouts (shortly into chapter 3):

Sul poked at the fire, his brow furrowing, then tossed his head to indicate their surroundings. "[Solstheim]'s not the most fruitful land," he said. "And in my day almost unpopulated, and then by scraggly tribesmen with no clear allegiance toward Skyrim or the Empire. Morrowind had always laid theoretical claim to the place. If Skyrim hadn't given it freely, odds are the refugees would have settled there anyway, forcing the Nords to either fight or lose face. This way they came out looking like saviors."

Croaker (talk) 19:42, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Strange, that info would definitely be worth adding to the history section. However, the opening paragraph deals succinctly with the island's current situation and would become far too long and repetitive if we were to outline all the historical claims there. There's some limited info from ESO that needs to be added as well (namely that it seems to be considered part of Skyrim in the Second Era), so the Lord of Souls info would be useful to expand on that. —Legoless (talk) 20:12, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
That sounds fine. Where can the tidbit from ESO be learned, by the way? I'm unfamiliar with it. I don't know if you're planning to update the History section yourself, but if you're not, I don't want to attempt it either without a full grasp of the facts. Croaker (talk) 21:11, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
Not sure if this is the only ESO source, but Crafting Motif 46: Frostcaster Style seems to strongly imply that Solstheim was a part of Skyrim at the time of writing, as it puts the Skaal next to the Reachmen as another "subculture of Skyrim". --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 21:39, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
I thought I recently came across dialogue directly calling Solstheim a part of Skyrim, but the Frostcaster Style is just as good a source. —Legoless (talk) 13:51, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
There's a Nord in Stormhold who implies he's either from or has visited Solstheim (he compares Shadowfen's climate favorably to Solstheim's), was that it? Anyway, I've added the other info to the page. Croaker (talk) 22:07, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

i can't make an account because of the capthca

Discussion moved to User talk:Daveh

Daggerfall Unity image

Regarding the removal of the image in Daggerfall:Homes, is it not possible to use Daggerfall Unity images? All the models are the same and the only real differences in these sorts of images is the lack of wandering NPC's, I always make sure not to use any mods or show anything that isn't in vanilla. --Username1 (talk) 05:19, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Images are required to depict the vanilla game, with no graphical (or engine) enhancements. Images from Daggerfall Unity are only appropriate to use on articles directly related to Daggerfall Unity, so if you'd like to make a page for the project that would be perfectly fine. I've also just removed the image from Daggerfall:Shacks. —Legoless (talk) 20:10, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Removal of OpenMW related section

This is about a revert of an edit of mine on Morrowind:Magas_Volar

I understand the need to limit the wiki, but I still listed the changes on the page because:

1. One of the reverted sections was not OpenMW specific at all (but it was still removed entirely)

2. OpenMW is NOT a mod, it's an engine replacement. You're running the original, unmodded, game. Differences in behaviour are actively avoided, and when they arise it is mainly because the behaviour was in the vanilla game but a bug in the original engine that ran the game prevented it from working. As I see it, this is about the original game. The game is the data files, not the original engine, which had it's own quirks which prevented parts of the game from working correctly. Of course we cannot entirely separate both, since the developers tested on the the buggy engine while they wrote the game. Sometimes the developers of the OpenMW engine must make exceptions and ignore the letter of the game files in favour of the buggy behaviour of the original engine. Or you just might kill Dagoth-Ur before you ever meet him — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 19:15 on 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Any differences with the OpenMW engine should be noted in the Tes3Mod namespace, not on game articles. The difference between a "mod" and an engine is semantics; we don't mention third party content in the Morrowind namespace without specific consensus. If you want to make the case for its inclusion, you can do so on the article's talk page or the Community Portal. —Legoless (talk) 21:03, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Grouping Edit

I'm sorry, I was just trying to help :( I didn't want to create issues. Timeoin (talk) 21:54, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

No issues, your edit was fine! —Legoless (talk) 22:07, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
I was just making sure. I really want this place to be a new home for me. The other place has decided I'm not worthy enough. :P Timeoin (talk) 22:47, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
It was just me having experiencing a brain short circuit or something. For some reason I thought the anonymous user making an edit after you removed an addition, not added it, and undid the edit. Legoless fixed it by undoing my undo. —MortenOSlash (talk) 10:11, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Name change

Hey Legoless. Would it be possible for me to change my username to User:Starkiller131? If so how? — Unsigned comment by Nephmir (talkcontribs) at 15:05 on 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Done! Usually you would post the request on the admin noticeboard but I've taken the liberty of leaving a note there. —Legoless (talk) 19:32, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
Starkiller! Welcome aboard! Just remember our super secret (non-existent) plan! Timeoin (talk) 20:53, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Place Link and icons

Heya, when making this edit, I couldn't find out how to (automatically) get the icons to show up, i.e. where to add that information. (And also the blurb on the CWC trader.) Where would I need to add this information so it shows up in the summary? I'm not entirely sure (i.e. I have no clue :D) where Place Link gets its information from. Thanks. :) Varana (talk) 12:20, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Sorry about the late reply! The information is taken from the article that you link to from {{Place Link}}. The problem was that you were linking to an NPC page (Online:Nardhil Barys) which wouldn't have that info. I've set up this page which acts as a redirect and also provides the needed info/icon for the Place Link. —Legoless (talk) 17:07, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Vardenfell treasure chest

I found 2 treasure chests in in Vardenfell that are not listed in the map, Im going to continue searching around feel free to leave me a message howyadoin1983@gmail,com — Unsigned comment by Jgrant08 (talkcontribs) at 08:49 on 28 April 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation page and rename needed

It is unclear where these should be requested, however, a disambiguation page for Online:Message in a Bottle is needed an a rename for Online:Message in a Bottle, see Online:Message in a Bottle (2), Online:Message in a Bottle (Summerset 1), Online:Message in a Bottle (Summerset 2). Thanks --Rhynchelma (talk) 17:53, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

You don't request a person to do it, you use the {{rename}} template or do it yourself, there is nothing to stop these pages being renamed suitably. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 20:13, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, I am anon. --Rhynchelma (talk) 20:25, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Strange Happenings

Do you have any idea what's going on here? The history displays multiple edits from multiple IP addresses, which I'm assuming is just the same person posting under different IPs, but Recent Changes strangely only displayed one of the edits, the first one under this IP address. Just thought it was a little unusual and wanted to bring it to your attention. --Rook (talk) 18:19, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

We've seen things like that happen before in two different cases that I can think of:
  1. When there was some kind of low-level wiki error, such as a partial outage or a problem with an extension.
  2. When the user is technically changing the text, but on saving, the wiki is converting that text back to the same thing that was already saved. This typically only happens with fairly rare international characters, as I recall.
I just looked at the text in the wiki database, and I can see that there were indeed a couple of bizarre Unicode control characters and the like added to the page, so I think it's safe to say that it was #2 that was happening here. The first change registered, because it was a clear-cut change from the existing text. All changes after that amounted to the same text, so the attempted change was registered in the history, but RC didn't record it, since it wasn't actually a change. I'm not sure if that's a bug or if it's by design, though. Robin Hood  (talk) 09:08, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Strange Happenings (2)

Hi Legoless! Please investigate a series of strange edits (1, 2, 3) that I and other people had to edit out. Phoenix Neko (talk) 17:39, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

I've spoken to the individuals privately, thanks for cleaning up the articles. —Legoless (talk) 21:00, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
One more. I'm not sure if it is inappropriate for the description page though. Phoenix Neko (talk) 22:36, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

Looking for an active admin

Lego. Ive been away a while and am trying to recall how to fix a typo on the main page but as i see it permisdions for edits are locked. As it is, the most recent article presents the creation club selection of "netch leader armor" rather than LEATHER. And its buggin me. :) Crayolamanic (talk) 14:24, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

I fixed it :) Jeancey (talk) 15:40, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Thoughts on new categories?

Hey Legoless! I've been tidying around the Lore-People and got to thinking it might be useful, or at least neat, to have Lore categories for each race (e.g. Lore-Dragons). I'm more than happy to set it up, but I thought it best to check with someone who knows what he's doing before I potentially make a whole bunch of clutter that'll need removing. So, thoughts? ParadoxPraxis (talk) 23:28, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm not generally involved in categorisation but it sounds like a good idea to me. Lore-People is quite a large category at this stage, can't see the harm in further subdividing it. —⁠Legoless (talk) 03:21, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
That's all the invitation I need. Time for me to get to work! ParadoxPraxis (talk) 03:36, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Userpatroller request.

Excuse me, on the Userpatroller page, it stated to contact a administrator directly if no action has been taken over a week. It's been over a week, so if you don't mind, could you please upgrade me to userpatroller status? Thank you. Werewolfvampirre  (talk)

Upgrades to user privileges don't happen on-demand, they happen when you've demonstrated that you can be trusted with them. Your various attempts at impersonating administrators, as well as your rather unusual off-wiki attempts to do the same (i.e., your "retirement", which is a copy of my retirement), suggest that you are not ready for elevated privileges right now. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:09, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Cheers ears

Just wanted to quickly thank you for the courtesy edit, much appreciated :) --Rezalon (talk) 03:49, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

No problem! —⁠Legoless (talk) 09:15, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Nice Work

You have been given a cookie!

Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say:

Nice work on Lore:Dragon! --AKB Talk Cont Mail 18:50, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Thanks! I was surprised we didn't have any info on dragon souls on that page. —⁠Legoless (talk) 18:53, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Shadowkey Emulation Guide

Hi Legoless,

I'm a News Team member at TES Wiki. I recently leant that a N-Gage emulator had finally been made, and I found Shadowkey Emulation Guide very useful. I am writing to you to ask for permission to write a guide on how to emulate Shadowkey based on the guide at UESP. I will use my own screenshots and credit UESP at the end.

I am looking forward to hearing from you,

Amulet of Queens (talk) 18:01, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi! That particular guide was written by user Thal-J so you may wish to ask him for permission. In general, content from the wiki can be reused under our by-sa licence. —⁠Legoless (talk) 18:15, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Roland Jenseric's Cabin

Hi Legoless

I noticed your fast response to my tagging the Roland Jenseric's Cabin article as incomplete. Impressive work, thanks!

Cheers, — Wolfborn(Howl) 14:40, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! —⁠Legoless (talk) 14:42, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Userfy deleted page

Hi. I created the Oblivion:À â ç é ê è ë î ï ô ù û æ page 10 years ago, but it got deleted for being "unnecessary". Can you restore it and move it to "User:FokkerTISM/À â ç é ê è ë î ï ô ù û æ"? Thanks. FokkerTISM (talk) 16:28, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Sure, that's been restored and moved to User:FokkerTISM/À â ç é ê è ë î ï ô ù û æ now. —⁠Legoless (talk) 16:37, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. FokkerTISM (talk) 16:42, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Tamriel Rebuilt/ Tamriel Data Item Merger?

Hi! My name's Dan and I'm a new contributor to the wiki. I've been playing Morrowind for years now and have really loved this wiki as a player's resource.

I finally dove into the massive Tamriel Rebuilt mod and found that a lot of the info here is really hard to use, is incomplete, or just nonexistant. There are very few- if any- resources on the web for players looking for a guide on TR. I'd like to get your input on making the TR information here more player friendly by implementing the following: Break down the division between the TR mod's and the TR_Data archive's Items information (which seems to be currently based on where they're stored) and instead reorganize it to be based on what is currently playable in TR and what is only available through the console.

Please let me know what you think. Thanks! Prism (talk) 05:24, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

You'll want to speak to Dillonn241 on that. TR_Data is a shared resource for several mods though, so availability in Tamriel Rebuilt is not the only consideration. —⁠Legoless (talk) 07:27, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
I'll be sure to do that. Thank you! Prism (talk) 17:46, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Ash Salt or Ash Salts?

Hi Legoless

I notice you recently changed the entry in the Alchemy lore article from Ash Salts to Ash Salt based on the spelling the The Nirnroot Missive. In Morrowind, where the ingredient was first introduced, it is universally referred to throughout the game as "Ash Salts", plural, never "Ash Salt", singular. So which spelling should take precedence? Given that Morrowind was the game in which the ingredient was first introduced and in which is it most prevalent, and given that the ingredient is native to Morrowind in general and Vvardenfell in particular, my feeling is that the spelling used in that game should take precedence over the spelling used in one document written by one researcher in a totally different game. What do you think? (By the way, changing it to "Ash Salt" on the Alchemy page also broke the link to the Morrowind article. Not quite sure how to fix it as it stands.) — Wolfborn(Howl) 23:46, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

I figured "ash salts" was a mistake on our end. If there's conflicting sources, we should probably go with the most prevalent and note the alternative plural. —⁠Legoless (talk) 01:02, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

You're welcome!

I got your message on my talk page. I'm glad my edits are useful.  :) In a past life, I got paid to write software and do technical documentation, so I got in the habit of scrutinizing any document or process that I'd never read or gone through before. Whether consciously or not, I took that approach with the wiki here. Plus, the wiki gave me good information for my game that either helped me get unstuck, or kept me from doing something that would have gotten me stuck, so I thought maybe I could "return the favor" by contributing some edits.

I kind of like being a WikiGnome, and editing from an IP is part of that. (I edit Wikipedia that way, too.) So, unless it's causing any difficulty on the wiki administration side, I plan to keep on editing from my IP.

I'm playing Shivering Isles right now, and once I get done with that, I think I'll be pretty much finished with Oblivion. I played Arena for a few days last summer when I got done with Skyrim, but going backwards 17 years of game development was too much of a jump, so I set it back down.  :D I might play Morrowind when I get done with Oblivion, but I might not. Part of the equation here is that Skyrim and Oblivion have kind of been "what I did during the virus"; things are starting to pick back up IRL, so my game time may go down, which means I won't have as much to contribute. (I don't have, and am not soon likely to get, a machine that's strong enough to run ESO.) 08:43, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

No worries, totally up to yourself if you want to register! Glad to hear you're enjoying the wiki. —⁠Legoless (talk) 11:17, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

"speculation, that's lava"

I was RIGHT! That WAS Chaotic Creatia, not lava! Nyahahaahhaha, ORIGINAL RESEARCH PROVES CORRECT AGAIN! >:D

Though, really, given how Chaotic Creatia is referred to as the "waters of Oblivion" by several sources, and seems to replace the water in realms of Oblivion, I think it's fair to say all the water in the realms of Oblivion is Chaotic Creatia.

Kinda why I wish original research would be allowed, to an extent. In my humble opinion, some observations and speculation should be allowed, so long as they remain within the realm of reason, and so long as it is relevant to the source material. If I may say so, I did not believe my understanding that the lava in the Deadlands was Chaotic Creatia to be too far-fetched, given the source material (and recent confirmation).

I was hoping to ask that you might consider reconsidering the No Original Research policy, with some terms and conditions to prevent far-fetched speculation.

Thank you! :)

BlissfulDelusions (talk) 13:50, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

The purpose of the wiki is to document information, not to invent it. This is a pretty core tenet of the project. —⁠Legoless (talk) 13:54, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
Adding to what Legoless said, it's not up to any single user to decide whether unofficial lore or speculation is allowed; it's up to the wiki as an entire group. We've had many discussions around this before and the result has always been essentially the same: nothing unofficial belongs on the article. At the absolute most, something that seems likely but can't be proven would go in notes at the bottom of the page until it can be proven, but even then, there has to be some pretty strong evidence. In short, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, something that looks like lava should be assumed to be lava until someone explicitly states that it's not. Now that that's been done, there's no issue. Just because speculation later turns out to be accurate doesn't mean it wasn't speculation at the time. Robin Hood(talk) 15:37, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Fort Frostmoth Dialogue

Hi Legoless

I notice you added a "unique" voiced dialogue section to the Fort Frostmoth article. I was about to add some of the funnier lines to the page when I checked the Construction Set and found that these idle lines are not unique to Fort Frostmoth, but can be heard practically anywhere on Solstheim--there are multiple entries for each line, including Raven Rock and even the island of Solstheim in general. In light of the fact that the dialogue is not unique to the location, do we want to keep it on the page? Or would it fit better on a "generic" Bloodmoon dialogue page? — Wolfborn(Howl) 03:06, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Looks like you're right, I just checked and found a duplicate version of that line for any Imperials in Thirsk.
That's a relief—having a bunch of dialogue on the place page didn't seem ideal. If you're adding more of those voice lines, feel free to remove the section from the Fort page. I don't know where exactly generic voice lines should be added, but maybe a new "Voice" page on Morrowind:Generic Dialogue would be appropriate? —⁠Legoless (talk) 10:08, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
I have set up Morrowind:Generic Dialogue Voiced and moved the line there. The rest of the page is empty for now. —⁠Legoless (talk) 19:21, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for starting the page. However, this raises a new question in my mind, namely: should we be documenting expansion-specific generic dialogue in the "Morrowind" namespace rather than the expansion namespace? Since this is probably a topic for a wider community, I'm going to start a discussion about it on the CP. — Wolfborn(Howl) 03:39, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Problems with it.UESP

Hi, I would like to ask you why I can't contact the it.UESP admin. I know that they have been inactive for years but I intend to collaborate for the Italian translation of the UESP, however it is very complicated to do so because no admin can give me the minimum authorisation to be able to operate (I can't even move the pages I create) and above all I can't import the pages from en.uesp correctly because it all becomes complicated for the history and templates connected to the page. I also believe that the MediaWiki version is to be updated (e.g: there is no WikED). Could you help me by giving me the necessary authorisation to proceed with my work? Or by letting me know if you're in touch with some of the admin of it.UESP in order to inform them of this issue? If you can't do anything I guess I'll have to give up. Thank you.--Yokudan 15:22, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi, you're going to want to speak to Daveh about the Italian version of the site. —⁠Legoless (talk) 16:41, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Removing of my account

Hi I would like to completely remove my user account from the pages. Could you please do it for me? Thanks. — Unsigned comment by Rancule (talkcontribs) at 16:37 on 20 February 2022 (UTC)

We don't generally delete wiki accounts, particularly in cases such as this where there are no edits associated with it. —⁠Legoless (talk) 17:35, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Image upload guidelines?

Hi Legoless, I noticed you re-uploaded an image that I had recently uploaded, with a different name, and still with a tag about image resolution and/or aspect ratio. I'm new to this wiki (though have edited others), so I wanted to learn how to do this in an approved way for future images so that I don't make the same mistake again.

  • Is there a specific naming convention that I should follow? Or was the effort more to just re-use an existing name?
  • What resolution size is considered "large enough" to not get the "CleanImage" template added to it?
  • Are there any other image upload guidelines that I should be aware of?

(I have an image-specific question as well, but I'll add it to that image's talk page.)

Thanks! — Corwyn (talk · contr) 02:25, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi Corwyn. We do have an image naming convention, and it's usually better to upload over the old duplicate image rather than make a new one. Ideal resolution depends on the game and subject matter, but for a shot like that I would say 900px or more would be the preferred res. I've updated the cleanup tag for this image now and replied on the talk page.
See Help:Images for more info. —⁠Legoless (talk) 11:37, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Kharjo's relation to Caravan Enforcer

Hey Legoless, thanks for the welcome to the wiki you left on my page. I'm sending this in regards to your undoing of my edit that I made on Kharjo's page last night. I removed the note stating their relation because the Caravan Enforcer's facial fur color pattern is different from Kharjo's. Not only that, but Kharjo is known to wield one-handed weapons and a shield and the Caravan Enforcer is depicted posing with a greatsword. Thus I concluded that the claim was unfounded. When you undid my edit, you reasoned that they looked alike, which I disagree with. Unless you know something that I don't, I think my edit should be restored. Thank you for your attention. CommadoreCundo (talk) 18:01, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

To me, they look extremely alike. There are few other Khajiit traders it could be. It isn't unfounded to make these connections when so many generic cards in Legends depict specific NPCs from previous games. —⁠Legoless (talk) 18:14, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
If you'd look again, you can see that the Caravan Enforcer's color pattern is grey with a white mouth. While Kharjo's has some grey, he has more distinct markings such as white and black directly over his right eye, with solid black directly over his left eye, reaching up and completely covering the top of his head and ears. This is also ignoring the other fact that the Caravan Enforcer uses a greatsword and Kharjo is known to prefer one-handed weapons with shields. I looked into the mentioned depiction of npc's from that set. From what I've seen, typically only cards with the legendary rarity are supposed to be named NPC's from Skyrim. I did see what you mean about non-descript commons seemingly depicting a named NPC, Shadowscale Partisan looking like Veezara for instance. That claim has considerably more proof though since they're both the at least the same scale color, wearing armor that only those of the Dark Brotherhood would wear, and both being Shadowscales. Meanwhile, Kharjo only shares his race, profession, and common armor type with the Caravan Enforcer. Moreover, I didn't know that speculation was grounds for declaring something as a fact. Usually something like this should've been denied when it as added in the first place due to a lack of genuine proof. CommadoreCundo (talk) 19:28, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
Choice of weapon and slight differences in fur pattern don't account for the rest of the similarities in my view. This might be best brought up on the article's talk page if you wish to remove the note. —⁠Legoless (talk) 08:38, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Will do CommadoreCundo (talk) 15:08, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Moved to Skyrim_talk:Kharjo#Removal_of_Relation_to_Caravan_Enforcer

Happy Birthday!


Robin Hood(talk) 14:23, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks RH! —⁠Legoless (talk) 14:28, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Have a great birthday! --AKB Talk Cont Mail 15:32, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks AKB! —⁠Legoless (talk) 15:52, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

How can I add my own images?

I noticed your reviews on my articles about Rielle and Wights in Skyrim. I understand that having images from the correct game would help. However, I don’t know where to find my game screenshots that could be used for the articles. I use the Anniversary Edition on Steam, if that helps. Would you happen to know if I could upload my screenshots onto the wiki?

Thank you for reviewing my pages.

-Jaekelopterus3 Jaekelopterus3 (talk) 03:57, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

You can use this page to upload images. See this page for help. —⁠Legoless (talk) 11:00, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Images from promos

Since I still haven't figured out where my screenshots are yet, would using promo art for the Wights page be acceptable? I don't know if I need to actually show you the context of what I found online, but it looks like official promo art for The Cause.

-Jaekelopterus3 Jaekelopterus3 (talk) 11:49, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Official promo images are an okay substitute, but the page will still need to be marked with a {{needsimage}} tag until in-game screenshots can be provided. You can find information on locating your Skyrim screenshots at Help:Images#Skyrim. The folder can be accessed through Steam's interface. —⁠Legoless (talk) 19:20, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Forgot account name

Hello, I have an account here, but I forgot the name. It started with a G or a W. 17:55, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Okay, so it is White Lightning. I forgot the password and I don't know if I have an email attached to it. 17:59, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't know if there is a database for passwords. But knowing I am inactive since 2019 and have no email attached, I don't know if my account can be recovered. 18:05, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

I decided to create a new account. Cody9867 (talk) 16:27, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

That's probably the best solution. If you had a ton of edits and some corroboration of your identity, it may have been worth it, but for smaller numbers of edits, it's probably not worth either of our time. It's a bit of a process to get an account back. Robin Hood(talk) 17:23, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

A pie!

You have been given a pie!
For an argument well-cited and a change in my known definition. —⁠ Mindtrait0r (talk) 23:36, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
Thank you! —⁠Legoless (talk) 17:09, 11 January 2023 (UTC)


Hi - new to editing this wiki, so not sure where to ask this more generally... Added a daily quest from Necrom called Knowledge is Power (WB, for Runemaster Xiomara), but it's linked to a Imperial City quest with the same name. How do I differentiate them, and how to get the relevant quest ID? Many thanks, Gegensmith (talk) 08:37, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi! A similar issue occurred recently with Online:City Under Siege. We need to do something similar here, i.e. move the existing quest to Online:Knowledge is Power (Imperial City) and then set up the new page at Online:Knowledge is Power (Necrom) so that a disambig can be created. When you try to add the link, you can then include (Necrom) in the quest link template and it will be differentiated. I'll go ahead and make the move/disambig if you want to look at creating a page for the new quest. —⁠Legoless (talk) 09:28, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Index pages in the same categories as their entries

Hello. I respectfully disagree with this revert.

I don't think it's typical for an index / a listing page to be included in the same category as its entries. Of course, this is based on what I observed in pages listed in Services, which includes Trainers.

Also, if we are to be consistent with these categories, I think removing Trainers from Morrowind-Trainers would be easier and simpler compared to going through Services and, for example, adding Alchemist to Morrowind-Alchemist Service and Morrowind-Apothecary Service, adding Smith to Morrowind-Repairs and Morrowind-Smith, etc.

What do you think? Salamangkero (talk) 14:47, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm not usually too involved with our categories, but having the 'index page' as you call it included in the category of the same subject but without alphabetical ordering is something I've observed across the entire site. For consistency I can't understand why it would be removed. See Category:Morrowind-Races for a quick example I could find. —⁠Legoless (talk) 14:51, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
I did a quick check on the "???-Races" categories elsewhere and got mixed results. It appears most of the other namespaces do not include the main "Races" page in the "???-Races" category, while Daggerfall, Morrowind and Lore do. Oh well, if there's no clear consensus, I won't push it. Salamangkero (talk) 15:22, 9 June 2023 (UTC)


Why'd you revert my recategorization on General:Obscure Locations? The only reason that the Dev Mod-specific category exists on the page is because I advocated for it while I was under the impression that Dev Mod lore wasn't considered UOL. Dev Mod lore being UOL is the status quo, however, considering its presence on General:Unofficial Lore in multiple instances. The talk page of that page with unanimous defense for these entries staying is a consensus, no? Mindtrait0r (talk) 00:50, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

The consensus you cited was a discussion on a different page about the possibility of hosting/listing dev texts from mods. It does not provide a basis to remove a useful distinction on General:Obscure Locations. In my view, your edit was non-constructive and a misinterpretation of the other discussion. —⁠Legoless (talk) 09:23, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
Well, I can perhaps see why separating Dev Mod lore from UOL could be useful in the main body, similarly to how Cut Content is distinguished. However, in the references, cut content is mixed with UOL as per usual, so Dev Mod stuff should be too, right? The current note under the dev mod stuff makes it seem like it is very different and lower than UOL, which is not consistent with the precedent of the status quo of and discussion page on Unofficial Lore. Mindtrait0r (talk) 21:52, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
I would prefer separating out cut content under a new header to make the distinction. —⁠Legoless (talk) 23:28, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
While I don't have a particular issue with separating cut content from UOL in references, as it does have different usage rules from general UOL, Dev Mod lore has no such difference in usage from what I have seen, primarily from that talk page. The current Dev Mod lore distinction on Obscure Locations omits the 'may or may not be' regarding its authoritativeness, which the talk page on Unofficial Lore seems to refute from my understanding, placing its nature of being dev-written to be just as authoritative as something like Loveletter from the Fifth Era, for instance. I also feel that it is dangerous to establish a precedent of breaking up UOL, as it lends credence to the whole shades/tiers of UOL thing that has yet to be fully established and is a vague case-by-case thing from my understanding. Mindtrait0r (talk) 00:05, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Revert 2

Thanks for correcting that! I completely forgot about generic Nord Mead somehow. I tried just searching "Skyrim:Mead" and it didn't come up. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 10:27, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

I was doing the exact same thing! —⁠Legoless (talk) 10:32, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Regarding my "PC" edit

I didn't know what "PC" meant and I thought it was a mistake which supposed to say "NPC (non-playable character)" instead. That's why I made that edit. Sorry about that. Fazbeus (talk) 09:20, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

No worries! "PC" in this context means player character. —⁠Legoless (talk) 09:22, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

"Undo revision 2914082 by Robin of Blackwood (talk) irrelevant necropost / shit stirring"

A bold claim for such a biased party, given that you were are part of the irrelevant and necrotic shit getting yourself all stirred up... You should have done right by Dragon Guard; you should do right by me. But you don't even know the definition "irrelevant", "necropost" (something which I deliberately avoided doing by posting where I posted) or "shit stirring". You are a sorry excuse for an administrator and an embarrassment to this wiki. Kindly take your head out of your ass, read UESPWiki:Etiquette (that also goes for all the other admins violating those rules against Dragon Guard!) and learn some manners. It's just common decency.

Robin of Blackwood (talk) 10:24, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi Robin. Your post on that talk page had absolutely nothing to do with image requests, and was completely disrespectful to staff and to the user in question. I worked with Dragon Guard extensively to help him make constructive edits, and he ended his time here making productive and appreciated dialogue additions for MWOP and ESO pages. There is no bad blood, and for a new user like yourself to arrive on the wiki a decade later and dredge up all that drama on unrelated talk pages is the definition of shit stirring. Please consider making more appropriate use of your time. —⁠Legoless (talk) 10:45, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
My post was completely relevant as to why the image request could not be marked as completed despite being complete. Was it disrespectful? It was certainly accurate. And far more respectful than any of your posts to and about Dragon Guard or your slander about me. Have you considered being respectful if you want to earn respect? Apparently not. When administrators violate UESPWiki:Etiquette, all it does is give everyone a license to respond in kind. None of this fascist "rules for thee but not for me" nonsense.
"A new user like [my]self to arrive on the wiki a decade later"? What? One who has been an active user of this wiki for well over a decade? You continue to embarrass yourself and demonstrate why you are completely unfit to be an administrator. You consider making more appropriate use of your time! "Irrelevant necropost / shit stirring" indeed.
And before you start making futile threats about blocks and bans and vandalizing my user page, like you did to Dragon Guard, just save your breath. I don't care. Delete me, cancel me, unperson me, or don't. I don't give a hoot. As long as fascists like you hold on to even an ounce of power, this place will continue to be clownfest and any contributions a pointless waste of time and effort.
Robin of Blackwood (talk) 11:10, 2 February 2024 (UTC) — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 11:11 on 2 February 2024 (UTC)
Happy to receive any and all accusations of censorship over this issue, but I believe the edit history on Dragon Guard's talk page speaks for itself. You are lacking the full context of a situation that you were not involved in, and your comments are uncalled for and needlessly provocative. Your post on the image request page was not appropriate behaviour, and responding to this with personal attacks will not get you very far. —⁠Legoless (talk) 11:23, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
Of course, you are. You take pride in your abuse of power. And yes, the edit history of Dragon Guard's talk page certainly does speak for itself. Thank you for proving my point.
I have full context. I have been using this wiki longer than your user page claims you have. It is your comments that were uncalled for. It is you who are being needlessly provocative. It is your behavior that is completely inappropriate.
For once, your personal attacks get responded to with personal defense, fancy that. Why don't you take a good long look in the mirror and see what anyone else can?
Robin of Blackwood (talk) 11:32, 2 February 2024 (UTC) — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 11:32 on 2 February 2024 (UTC)

"wikitable is for better UX than well-hidden links"

I don't think I understood the revert message for Special:Diff/3004593 in Books:Greg Keyes Novels. Can you please clarify what's a "well-hidden link" and why a wikitable is better than it?

For my part, I tend to remove tables when they're not being used to present tabular data. The problem with layouting using tables, especially for side-by-side content, is that they respond poorly to narrow viewports (eg. resized browser window, the mobile site, the UESP app) by "squeezing" the contents of their cells. The effect is not as severe for this page but I thought I might as well, since I was also fixing another thing, which is a separate and unrelated concern: I thought that the prefixes for the subpages are redundant so I removed them in the same way Online:Player Housing does not have prefixes for its subpages. Salamangkero (talk) 06:34, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

The subpage links are an irrelevance; whether the prefix is included or not has no effect. As was pointed out to you before, these sorts of edits just make it more difficult for other editors to parse the diff and see what actual changes you have made to a page.
In regards to your removal of the wikitable, it was a disimprovement to the page layout and functionality. Wikitables are not only used for presenting tabular data, but also for stylistic page layouts. If you have a better idea of how to do something similar to what's on the page now, go ahead. As far as I'm concerned, the primary functionality of that page should be to aid users in navigating to the two individual book pages. Prominently linking to them via the table is preferable to obscuring the links elsewhere on the page and converting the cover images into non-functional thumbnails. —⁠Legoless (talk) 06:45, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
Noted on the disimprovement, although the thumbnails were hardly non-functional, as they both link to their respective book pages. Thanks for the clarification, though; I now understand why they were positioned the way they were before.
Re: links, it was pointed out that there is no meaningful difference between full and shortened namespaces. I was not aware that the same also applied to subpage prefixes. Salamangkero (talk) 07:46, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
I hadn't realised you had maintained the page links on the thumbnails, so that's my bad. I still think some style of left-alignment suits the page better on desktop and mobile. That said, the wikitable is a bit of a hack and I'm sure there's room for improvement on the formatting. —⁠Legoless (talk) 07:50, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
Much improved!! —⁠Legoless (talk) 08:21, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Concerning Lore articles written in past and present tense

Hello. My questions concerning the above topic can be found at the UESP Wiki's Lore talk page. Since you're an admin, I was wondering if you knew the answers to my questions regarding which tense to use for certain articles. — Unsigned comment by KevinM (talkcontribs) at 21:50 on 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Usually (but not exclusively) the past tense. —⁠Legoless (talk) 05:51, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Having read the talk page discussion, I concur with AKB and Enodoc. Writing all pages fully in the past tense is incorrect and does indeed lead to inherently wrong sentences. —⁠Legoless (talk) 01:12, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


Hi there! I have been adding constructive items to different articles and Tarponpet has undone them. He has also undone reasonable edits (Such as debating removing Wyverns from Lore:Bestiary W), this being reasonable because there is one dialogue citation certifying it as a creature, and has generally behaved in a manner not constructive to the greater improvement of the site as an encyclopedia. I would also claim many of his edits revolve around his personal ego, and because of this, edits have been undone, not out of the desire to have a net benefit improvement. Will you please talk with him or direct me to someone or some part of the site to submit an appeal about him? Thank you, 333dragonb0rned (talk) 03:01, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I've just had a quick look at things, and I can see the two of you butting heads in a few places. I don't think things have gotten to the point of taking any kind of official action, but if you really feel the need, you can always post on the Administrator's Noticeboard. Honestly, though, for now, I'd suggest that you both take a break for a bit, as AKB has already suggested elsewhere, and then for any future disagreements, take them up on the talk pages and hash things out there. That'll give you the opportunity to debate the quality of sources and what rules/precedents/discussions apply so that the actual edits to the page are constructive and based on consensus. Robin Hood(talk) 04:14, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
Yep. I am in the wrong there and I had not been aware there was a conversation and consensus with Wyverns being allowed. I am taking the users’ word as truth to that. 333dragonb0rned (talk) 02:32, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
333dragonb0rned, I would gently suggest that you have taken the wrong approach with this. Unrelated to this discussion, I have been patrolling your own edits over the past few days and I have not been impressed with the changes you've made. Without wading into the merits of your issues with Tarponpet's revisions, I would encourage you to continue familiarising yourself with this wiki's standards prior to throwing stones at other editors. —⁠Legoless (talk) 07:17, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
I have. I will. 333dragonb0rned (talk) 02:32, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Seconding Legoless, there's still a lot of edits to go through but from what I have seen so far, dragonb0rned's edits are riddled with errors and misinformation construed from next-to-no evidence. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 07:20, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
Oh yeah the Snow Elf edit was definitely wrong. Mostly what I’m looking for now is dialogue. 333dragonb0rned (talk) 02:32, 27 June 2024 (UTC)


For future reference, I suggest that either you or someone else create those articles, so no one makes that mistake again. --KevinM(talk) 11:17, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

That is not how redlinks work. This is a voluntary project. —⁠Legoless (talk) 11:18, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
I understand that creating article is a voluntary project. I was merely suggesting that creating those articles could help prevent such mistakes in the future. --KevinM(talk) 11:26, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
My point is that a redlink is not a mistake and should not be treated as such. It should not be removed; it should be left alone unless you decide to create the article yourself. They serve to highlight gaps in our coverage. —⁠Legoless (talk) 11:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
My point is that my edits were mistakes. Your comment above makes me fully understand your point though. Have a nice day. --KevinM(talk) 11:30, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
No harm done! —⁠Legoless (talk) 11:33, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
Return to the user page of "Legoless".