Skyrim talk:Alchemy/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Alchemy discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Skill Usage Layout

In general, I'm trying to layout these Skyrim articles based on the final versions of the articles -- i.e., how the content will need to be organized once full information on the game is available. Which is why I keep restoring the original layout of the Skill Usage section.

First, that section is where all information about how to actually use Alchemy as a skill should belong. Information such as the existence of Alchemy Workstations therefore belongs in the section -- not in the Notes section. Notes sections should only be used for information that doesn't belong elsewhere on the article; it is not a place to dump any one-sentence-long piece of information.

I've organized the section in paragraph style, consistent with Oblivion:Alchemy sections such as Potion Characteristics. To understand how to use alchemy, you will need to read the entire section. I don't want people skipping to the third paragraph and skipping the rest. However, a bulleted-note style implies that you can do exactly that.

The sentence on alchemy stations may seem somewhat short to be its own paragraph right now. Nevertheless, I know that ultimately there will be full paragraph of information, which is why I put it on its own. Eventually, we will want information on what specific equipment can be found at a workstation, and on what each piece of equipment does. Putting that sentence by itself makes it as easy as possible for future editors to add that additional information. Otherwise editors might have to rewrite the entire section just to start adding details about equipment -- because the introductory sentence would be embedded in another paragraph, and pulling it out would probably require various other tweaks to the paragraph.

I realize that other editors have only been trying to improve the section with their edits, but I just wanted to explain the perspective that I'm using when writing Skyrim articles. I think it's more important to have these articles ready for future improvements, instead of trying to make them look like they're already polished, complete articles.--Nephele^Talk 02:50, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Tasting still increase the skill?

Does tasting raw ingredients actually boost Alchemy? I tasted quite a few in the introduction, and my skill "meter" did not show any increase. Has anyone actually seen a skill increase from eating/tasting raw ingredients? — Unsigned comment by 99.53.222.209 (talk) on 11 November 2011

By ingredients, do you mean items found under "Ingredients" or "Food" in the menu? Because I think that makes a difference. —Daniellibus ^{E • T • C} 13:47, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

tasting ingredients does not give experience. Vaag256 12:16, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Not true I was given a skill increase for eating a daedra heart. Babytoke 6:45, 18 november 2011 (EST)

Maybe it only gives you a skill increase the first time you eat it? or maybe not for eating, but discovering the first effect? Vaag256 14:01, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

According to the console, eating ingredients gives absolutely no skill increase at all, even the first time. It's easy to test by eating the garlic found in Helgen Keep right at the start of the game, after which the skill value will still be 15.00. Aliana 12:39, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Eating ingredients slightly raises the Alchemy skill, it says so on the tips screen. Eruant 04:27, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Motion to change the Note tip from "does not increase skill" to "minutely increases" or similar to indicate that, while it does increase, it isn't going to help you level the skill.

I'm starting to think that this "weirdness" may be linked to the "Ingredient strength": River Betty and any other Slow/Damage Health ingredient results in the highest Damage/Slow effects;combining Skeever Tail and Red Mountain Flower is about 2 times weaker than River Betty and Skeevertail/Red Mt. Flower. I don't know for sure if Daedra Heart is also a "more efficient" ingredient, but this would make sense:

If you'd consume the Garlic found in the imperial dungeon, the increase would be too low to be visible, if you had a Daedra Heart to eat, while in the Tutorial, hm, I need to try that oneday.MarukiTheFaceHater 10:21, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Different potion %?

So me and a friend was playing, and we are having exact same stats (100 enchant, 100 alchemy) and we were trying to make blacksmith potion. For me, I could have up to 25% when enchanting,and my friend only 20%? We tried everything, clothes, magic, nothing seems to be the problem. Even race change! When he tried to make a potion (the blacksmith one) it was up to 96%! With NO clothing at all! Mine was only 60%. Anyone has a clue why?

Do both characters have the exact same perks? 75.47.107.236 08:59, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

This is a bug involving the unpatched version of the game, in which the 'Insightful enchanter' perk doesn't take effect for the player after being invested in. So far as I can tell there's no way around this bug, besides patching the game... a difficult proposition with an xbox not hooked up to live. (I still cant find a site that offers the thumb-drive/cd versions.)The unpatched version also allows you to wear a felmer helmet in addition to another piece of headgear though, which can make up for the gap where smithing/alchemy skill is concerned. As for why his potions turned out better than yours even though your enchants are better than his, that's hard to say.. did you invest all 5 points into the first alchemy perk, and work your way up to the Benefactor perk? --Grieves 06:21, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Synergy between Alchemy and Enchanting

After a bit of testing, it seems that alchemy and enchanting have a certain amount of synergy between them, as you are able to make a potion to boost your enchanting (enchants are x% stronger),
which you can then use to enchant your gear with a +y% alchemy, after which you can make a stronger +x% enchanting potion, which you can then use to enchant with a stronger +y% alchemy effect etc.

I think this is worth mentioning somewhere, though Im not certain where and how to phrase it, so if anyone would like to do so, feel free.
as per results, I've managed to get up to a +29% enchanting potion, which results in a +28% alchemy enchanting effect, after this point it seems to flatten out (as in not being able to coax the synergy up any higher) but more testing would be needed.

as a fun fact, I've used this final enchant\potion combo to make a strong blacksmithing bonus, resulting in a 199 base damage daedric greatsword.
I'm quite certain that this is how we'll get the strongest weapons ingame. Vaag256 01:33, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Were you making one item with +28% alchemy effect, or four? If I'm not mistaken, the effect of Fortify Alchemy can be enchanted into headgear (hats, helms, circlets), necklaces, gauntlets/gloves, and rings. That could stack significantly. --Quillan^Talk 20:25, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

I made the item with four effects, when wearing the appropriate +twohanded fortify gear+potion I managed to boost its damage up to 1211. When doing the same thing with onehanded gear, one sword boosted up to 1028 damage. (amusingly, the weapon only shows 3 numbers, so up to 999. the indicator at the bottom does still function though) this implies that the fortify skill scales equally for onehanded weapons (as opposed to sharpening, which does not), as such, onehanded weapons become much more powerful. In fact, when using two onehanded maxed out weapons, I managed to get up to 2056 damage. ([1]) did some actual testing on an npc (with the 'getav health' command after each strike), managed to get up to 35k damage with double swords in a 3-slashes powerattack. (30k with daggers, because while they might have a higher multiplier of 30, they dont scale with onehanded fortify)

I've got an unusual problem. Been playing the game until I reached level 59, yet I have not yet encountered a single piece of fortify alchemy gear. This means I have nothing to disenchant in order to then enchant my own stuff. Is this a bug? Where can I definitely find fortify alchemy gear? I just need one stinking piece, yet I've come across nothing in all of Skyrim so far. 134.176.158.87 10:36, 3 January 2012 (UTC)Tim Bostick ---Never mind, just found something, enchanted an alchemy set, and now alchemy stuff is popping up everywhere. 134.176.247.178 12:06, 5 January 2012 (UTC)Tim Bostick

Can one enchant super-strong alchemy gear? I managed to do so with smithing gear, now having armor and a ring (I think) with a permanent 214% smithing bonus, allowing me to create some pretty powerful arms. The question is if one can do so with alchemy gear. I think I had a set that was pretty powerful, but when I look at my set now, the percentages are all sub 29%. 134.176.247.178 16:33, 11 January 2012 (UTC)Tim Bostick

Ingredient strength?

For some reason, using different ingredients to make potions, even at the same skill level and with the same effects, results in effects of differing strengths. I have been unable to deduce the pattern, but for example, with Deathbell, you can make the following "Damage Health" poisons at my current skill level:

Other Ingredient / Magnitude

• Ectoplasm / 22 (EFIT - 0x00000040 00000000 01000000)
• Falmer Ear / 22 ( EFIT - 0x00000040 00000000 01000000)
• Imp Stool / 22 (EFIT - 0x00000040 00000000 01000000)
• Nightshade / 22 (EFIT - 0x00000040 00000000 01000000)
• Nirnroot / 14 (EFIT - 0x00000040 00000000 00000000)
• Red Mountain Flower / 22 (EFIT - 0x0000040 00000000 01000000)
• River Betty / 36 (this one also makes a Slow effect) (EFIT - 0x0000A040 00000000 00000000)
• Skeever Tail / 22 (EFIT - 0x00000040 00000000 01000000 )
• Troll Fat / 22 (EFIT - 0x00000040 00000000 01000000)
• Void Salts / 22 (EFIT - 0x00000040 00000000 01000000)

It implies that Nirnroot is unusually weak, and River Betty is unusually strong. All combinations of Damage Health that include River Betty (even Nirnroot) give a magnitude of 36...I don't know why Nirnroot drags down the Deathbell poison to 14, but it seems like there are definitely differing strengths of ingredients involved here, somehow.

That's probably because of the ingredient order. X/Y/Z/Q, as far as i understood, X is stronger that Y which is stronger the Z which is stronger than Q. So items with say, restore health in Z are less efficient at transmitting that quality that items which have restore health in X. Hope that made sence. --77.36.50.9 16:38, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

It looks like some of the extra information about the ingredient effects may make a difference this time around. Ingredients have always (well, back through Morrowind) had their effects treated internally the same way as enchantments -- so they have a magnitude, duration, area, etc. But in past games those extra numbers have made no difference. Now they seem to mean something. For the damage health effect, Falmer Ear and Nightshade both have mag=2/duration=1; Nirnroot has mag=2/duration=0; River Betty has mag=5/duration=0. It's clearly not the order in which the effect appears, since in all four of those cases damage health is the first effect.

Before starting to add this information to all the ingredient summaries, however, I'd like to get a better handle on whether there's a single number that can be used to represent the ingredient strength. --Nephele^Talk 17:00, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Interesting. Also, where do these apply? To all effects? Just restores/damage? Fortification? --77.36.50.9 17:57, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Just going on a hunch here, but I'm thinking the EFIT information in the Oblivion.esm files for the ingredients is the key to this. It looks like it holds three values.Judging by the looks of it if the EFIT is key, this example shows that the most powerful effect would be #2 or #3, and #1 would be one of the weakest:

(Jazbay Grapes, 1st effect)

EFID - 73F51 (MGEF - AlchWeaknessMagic), EFIT - 0x00000040 00000000 1E000000.

EFID - 3EAF8 (MGEF - AlchFortifyMagicka), EFIT - 0x00008040 00000000 3C000000.

EFID - 3EN07 (MGEF - AlchFortifyMagickaRate), EFIT - 0x0000A040 00000000 2C010000.

EFID - 73F26 (MGEF - AlchDamageHealthRavage), EFIT - 0x00000040 00000000 0A000000.

Findings thus far - I haven't found an ingredient with anything other than 0 for the second bit of data. Invisibility has no magnitude in Skyrim and the EFIT for it on Chaurus Eggs only holds one value (0x00000000 00000000 04000000). Judging by that, the 1st bit could be magnitude, 3rd could be duration, but no clue on the 2nd. As a side note, I'm using a program called Skyrim Viewer to easily compare this information.

I just added all the EFIT information for the ingredients listed in the original post. It's clear that the EFIT values do affect the potion created, now to figure out the formula and values for each bit of information.

EFIT for Deathbell's Damage Health - 0x00004040 00000000 01000000 --hexorcist

The EFITs you're describing are the same magnitude/area/duration values that I previously described. The first 8 bytes are the magnitude (float); second 8 bytes are the area (uint32) and the third 8 bytes are the duration (uint32). --Nephele^Talk 02:05, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

[edited] Here's a TSV list, http://pastebin.com/fGe3LsGA

That link is now 404. Is there another link?

not 404, just had to remove the -- 98.178.146.254

Preliminary test shows that it only uses the highest of the EFIT values by the selected ingredients. On a new character with 15 alchemy (starting amount) just did Wheat/Butterfly Wing (5/5 - V14,M22), Imp Stool/Blisterwort (3/3 - V8,M13) and Imp Stool/Wheat (3/5, V14,M22). Using 2 and 3 ingredients with 1 match of "Fear" (1/1, 1/1/1 - Cyrodilic Spadetail, Powdered Mammoth Tusk, Blue Dartwing) I got the same results - Fear up to level 4 for 30 seconds, value of 76. I did this test twice because the first time I did the 3 ingredients and wanted to eliminate that as the cause of the values being the same when I used 2 ingredients (similar to how Oblivion worked with potion strength).

Lab Locations

I think this page should have a list of alchemy lab locations, similar to how the Enchanting page has a section for "Arcane Enchanters Location". In which case, there's one in the The Midden Dark, in a northern tunnel. Minor Edits 18:37, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Potion weight.

Is there any specific information on how player made potion weights are calculated? Are we still subject to the pumpkmelon crisis from oblivion? — Unsigned comment by 124.149.57.134 (talk) on 23 November 2011

If I recall correctly, all potions weigh 0.5 --Timenn-<talk> 14:12, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Alchemy effects

Alchemy effects and alchemy should be consolidated into one. I spent a solid 15 minutes trying to find the alchemy recipes through a link on this page.

Incorrect tip on main Alchemy page.

Shops do not, infact, replenish every 24 hrs, it's every 48. The trip between Markarth, Riften and back takes 25.5 hours one way = 51 hours round trip. I'm assuming the OP didn't account for the trip FROM a location then back, and instead thought of only the trip TO the next location, ergo "24 hours" --75.71.114.55 15:34, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I've incorporated this into the article. Feel free to do it yourself in the future; this is a wiki! -- Hargrimm | ^Θ 00:21, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

- T_T Editing live pages scares me.

Personally, I prefer the following fast-travelling route: Whiterun -> Morthal -> Windhelm -> Riften -> Whiterun. If you start around 8AM, you can usually catch Windhelm's alchemy shop open (though it can be hit or miss) and Riften's alchemy shop never closes. If you have the house in Whiterun and a spouse that has an alchemy shop, then you'll be hitting five alchemy shops in succession before taking about a four-hour nap and dropping off any ingredients you don't want to carry. I haven't figured out the best way to include Solitude in the rounds and I'd prefer to drop Windhelm, but this circuit worked for me. --Fluff 20:31, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Unsuccessful Potion Alchemy Skill Increase

It's stated on here that unsuccessful potions do not increase your alchemy but I've leveled mine up while making unsuccessful potions. A friend of mine looked in the game guide printed by Bethesda and it states in there that it does increase your alchemy, but it's very slight. should this be changed on the main page? MeBetter87 23:50, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

4 Ingredients

ex. Ectoplasm (Restore Magicka) + Elves Ear (Restore Magicka, Resist Fire) + Dragon's Tongue (Resist Fire, Fortify Illusion) + Dwarven Oil (Fortify Illusion) will create a potion that Restore's Magicka, Resists Fire, and Fortifies Illusion. I'm Pretty sure you can only use 3 ingredients per potion, is there some way to use a fourth I don't know about?Jo'ker 03:22, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

No. That part is gone now. --Fluff 03:26, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Alchemy Recipe Helper and Leveling up Alchemy

These were both added in one edit and are copy-pasted from elder scrolls wiki, (Although I have no way of knowing that the person who edited that site wasn't the person who put it on this site,) I don't know what the policy is on copying other sites, but I just wanted to point out that the Recipe Helper shouldn't be on this page at all, the link would be more helpful on Useful Potions.Jo'ker 13:23, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Good call. The new stuff isn't 100% accurate. I'll poke it a bit. --Fluff 16:00, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

percentages discussion

- Anyone confirmed that upping your Restoration skill increases your Alchemy/Enchanting, it seems a bit... off. Considering Restoration is a branch of magic and Alchemy is not.

Evil4Zerggin, there really isn't a reason to enchant new Alchemy gear unless you want to increase the rate of your Fortify Restoration potion effect increase. At least, there isn't a reason to do so if you have some amount Fortify Alchemy enchant already. If your total Fortify Alchemy enchant is at some point (that I haven't bothered to figure out; a full set of 25% Fortify Alchemy gear works), then your Fortify Restoration potions can continue to climb without limit. While I've always been a proponent of using Alchemy+Enchanting to get ridiculous Smithing bonuses (or at least, I don't believe that's an exploit), this is too much. The Alchemy+Enchanting loop has a definite end; it does not offer unlimited power. This Restoration method does not end. As long as you always create a Fortify Restoration potion while you're under the effects of your previous one, you'll always be able to resume the loop and the loop will continue to gain in value.

It should be noted that Fortify Restoration is not directly increasing your Alchemy. It's increasing the Fortify Alchemy enchant on your gear, which is a Restoration effect. This works exactly the same as the weapon enchants getting more charges as your related skill increases. --Fluff 01:05, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

So the potion loop increases without bound? Interesting. --Evil4Zerggin 01:54, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

I missed one of the more unbalancing aspects of this loop. While you're under the effects of a Fortify Restoration potion, any other potions you drink that have Restoration effects are also enhanced. So, assuming you don't take 60 seconds at the alchemy table, you'll be drinking the next Fortify Restoration potion while the previous one is still in your system, giving you that much more of a boost.

To give you an idea of the absurdly unbalanced nature of this, here's a controlled example I did. I used Abecean Longfin and Salt Pile as my Fortify Restoration ingredients. I have full Alchemy, full perks, and a full set of +29% Fortify Alchemy gear. I make my first potion: as expected, it's +130% to Fortify Restoration. This is the same as Fortify Smithing potions, so it's to be expected. After drinking that one and doing the unequip/reequip, things quickly start to get out of hand. Here's a table:

Pass	Magnitude
1	130%
2	530%
3	2,920%
4	65,342%
5	29,847,012%

I didn't see any need to continue at that point; a bonus of nearly 30 million should be enough for anyone. A note to remember: I was drinking a Fortify Restoration potion while under the effects of the previous. Once the Fortify Restoration wears off, the potion from the 5th pass only had a magnitude of +45,608%. In addition, you might say this is a good way to make money except there isn't a merchant in the game that can buy the 5th pass potion. Its value is 478,499 septims.

Because your Alchemy level increases with the value of the potions you create, I tried a second test with no Alchemy perks, an Alchemy skill of zero, and a full set of Fortify Alchemy +8% equipment (created with zero Enchanting, zero Enchanting perks, and Grand Souls). My first Fortify Restoration potion was +21%. After four passes, it was at +29% and stalled. So, while it appears you can't quite do this immediately at the beginning of the game, I don't think it'd take much leveling up of Alchemy or Enchanting to let you break past the +29% boundary. --Fluff 03:48, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Are you remembering to drink your potion, and then take off your +alchemy equiptment and then put it back on in each pass? As I tried the exact same thing as you and it worked like a charm. A ridiculous game breaking charm :D JimmyDeSouza 00:41, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

hmm. My results were quite different. I got a 642,692% bonus very quickly (3 potions, I think), letting me create a +4,694% Alchemy+Smithing ring. That's with 100 Alchemy and 5/5 plus Benefactor. I was just trying to make a single item so I didn't have to mess around with equipping full suits every time... Interestingly, with my old +33% items also equipped, Active Effects shows the bonus is reduced to 4615%, and a base damage of around 250 for an Ebony Sword at the grindstone. With those 3 removed and only the "Uber Ring" equipped, the base damage skyrockets to 780. It looks like some piece of math is imploding badly somewhere, with values past a certain point being treated as negative numbers, or something crazy like that. Aliana 02:55, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

For reference/comparison, with the three +33% items an Ebony Sword is a nice round 100 damage on this char. Aliana 03:29, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

A second pass potion would be worth doing for 100% shout cooldown reduction. Then you could shout to your hearts content, like some spoiled brat that you see in the stores now a days

What should be noteworthy is the fact that if you "over-do it", you end up with Potions that go into NEGATIVE values, which happens after you reach several MILLIONS of %, Potion-magnitude that is. What I find is a nice, and not too gamebreaking Magnification:

Make 4 Items, each about 10-12% strong

Repeat the exploit until your gear has a combined Magnitude of about 6000-8000% Fortify Alchemy.

Make a Fort. Enchanting Potion, and use different soulgems to further tweak the magnitude of the new Item.

That way, you can make Potions that instantly heal you, or get you a loooong invisibilty, or a fast health regen, but not so much that nothing can kill you/you can 1-shot-kill everything.--MarukiTheFaceHater 19:51, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Further testing has revealed to me what seems to be the "best" balance between a slight bonus thru the exploit, but still challenging game: Reach the point where your COMBINED EQUIPMENT STRENGTH is about 10000%, BUT LESS THAN 20000%, and make a Fort. Enchanting Potion with magnitude WAY BELOW 2000%, with tweaking via different Soulgems you can reach (ROUGH assumptions!) ~100%, ~180-200%, over 200%, up to ~400% (Grand/Greater), usually with a "2000% Potion" you can use a lesser/common soulgem to get the same strength (on a Necklace for example) as when you'd use 4 Items with 27% each. That way, you only need 1 piece of Apparel, I currently got a Necklace with +147% Fort. Alchemy, and that equals 4 fully developed Items PLUS a little BONUS. BUT YOU want to stay WAY under 400% if you don't want to break your game.

PS: It is funny, when you make a Apparel with a couple 1000%'s Fort. Alchemy, you can then make insanely expensive Potions (which make your alchemy level up MULTIPLE levels at once, my best was from 53 to 71 in one Potion) and sell them, (insanely high prices raise your Speechcraft, even if you don't get any money for the transaction).--MarukiTheFaceHater 04:22, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I created a bow with 35,500 point shock damage and notice I can kill humans with 1 shot. But high level draugrs and creatures like frost trolls or elder dragons appear immune to this damage. is this expected? — Unsigned comment by 72.18.252.18 (talk) at 22:24 on 14 February 2012

Are you sure you didn't create a bow with frost damage? Every last one of the creatures you named are (or can be) partially immune to frost damage. – Robin Hood↝talk 07:45, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

experimental confirmation of minimum requirements

I've done some experimenting (on Xbox) to try to discover the setup requirements for the ftfy restoration potions loop. At this point my data supports Fluff's "second test" results. My character had alchemy 67, no perks, using three pieces of alchemy gear (for base +40%). In this configuration I hit an asymptote on the tenth round with a total (potion) modified equipment bonus of 57%. I did some additional digging by reloading a save and iteratively taking alchemy perks. The best results I have are with three levels of alchemist (for +60% overall), with my character at starting 67 alchemy and these three perks I have found that the response explodes at 14/15 rounds. After the 15th round the (newest) potion was listing as providing a 2165% fortification magnitude, and my total equipment bonus was 565%. My conclusion is that to achieve the previously described behavior, a character must have enough alchemy skill to acquire three levels of the alchemist perk (and acquire them), must have at least one piece of fortify alchemy enchanted equipment and must have enough fortify restoration ingredients to accomplish at least fifteen rounds of potion loop. I expect that there is some variance in the number of loop iterations needed conditioned on the amount of equipment enchantment your character has at the beginning. Something wicked 00:25, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Just tried it, and i can confirm. It works. However, due to the whole potion does not take effect while another potion that does the same thing is in effect, you have to wait a minute between each one. Unless i'm doing something wrong. 203.19.254.143 22:01, 9 December 2011 (UTC) Actually, never mind that. It started working for some reason.

You are doing something massively wrong. If you drink one fortify restoration potion while under the effects of the previous one, that gives the new one the previous ones bonus. (IE if you have 2 +130 potions, drinking one will make the second give a 299% bonus) This only works for +restoration potions btw. JimmyDeSouza 00:41, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Should we add this into the "Leveling Alchemy" section? As this is an incredibly quick way to level it, all you need to do is get the resources for 16 fortify restoration potions and you are at lvl 100. (Or I was anyway). Or is this not feasable because it is a glitch, or relies on enchantment? JimmyDeSouza 00:44, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

No kidding- I cracked the hell up when my first potion worth six digits took my Alchemy from 80 to 100 in an instant. Also, this Fortify Restoration method has other ramifications not yet mentioned- it affects *any* pre-existing gear with any type of fortification, and this includes perks like Armsman and Agile Defender. Under the influence of a high level Restoration Potion, literally *all* of my weapons, spells and armor were doing/blocking *absurd* damage, as I have at least one perk in each weapon/armor/magic tree. Additionally, and I'm not sure if this is a glitch or not, once I made the Fortify Restoration effect strong enough, my armor actually displayed NEGATIVE armor values, implying too much fortification can take the numbers into negative values, which is something other people have noticed with things like Fortify Pickpocket and Fortify Sneak. Perhaps most interesting of all (to me, anyway), *all* of these fortifications lasted until I unequipped the gear in question- they don't go away when the potion effect ends. I had a carrying capacity of over 80,000,000 before I unequipped my boots :-D It even persists through a save and reload- it really does last until the gear is unequipped. This could be useful if you find weight limits so irritating you're willing to resort to other exploits like followers and zombies. 209.66.120.3 18:02, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

• Yes, The math does go negative, I'll assume it's due to the floating point value on the math co=processor on the 360's motherboard being exceeded. Ofcourse, for it to go negative, your values need to exceed 8x10^13. It happened with Morrowind too when you created Fortify Int potions.Llwynn 15:31, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Does anyone know the actual *minimum* requirements? The guy who tested at level 67 alchemy isn't super helpful since level 67 isn't exactly minimum. I tried it at level 30 alchemy with 2 pure perks and then all the way up to benefactor with a single +12% alchemy circlet. I stalled out at +52% fort restoration and +17% on my alchemy circlet. What is the true minimum? Like minimum alchemy level and *initial* alchemy gear?

It seems that the key is to have enchanted Alchemy equipment that (when worn in total) will exceed +100% to Alchemy. I tried with a set of +11% gear (+44% total) and could not get the Restoration effect to "go exponential". With a full set of +25% gear, the loop quickly went exponential.

Just confirmed on the xbox, you need 4 pieces of +25% gear to not stall. With all 4 pieces, I was able to able to go from level 15 alchemy to 100; you need enough ingredients to make about 25 Fortify Restoration potions, depending if you take the perks or not.

Higher-Level Alchemy can kill he game

When you reach Alchemy 70, and get all the Perks up to Green Thumb, you ONLY have to know WHERE to get the best stuff and you can wreck your game, as just happened to me:

I spent 5-6 REALLIFE Days / about 5h each day, just wrecking up Smithing and Alchemy, hit 100 Smithing in no time, but had a hard time reaching Alchemy 70.

All I used was *SPOILEEEEEEEEER!*

Chaurus Eggs + Luna Moth Wings, you can find those in Shimmermist Cave and around the Giant Camp closes to Whiterun, you get about 50 Charus eggs and about 20 Luna Moth Wings each time.

NOW: That creates Invisiblity AND Damage Magicka, so one positive and one negative effect. But it is ALL about the TOTAL VALUE, and that one is NOT bad, not as good as Wheat+BlisterWort+Giants Toe, but still good.

Long Story short: if you know certain places, and have the Green Thumb skill, you just collect HUNDRETS of samples, and that allows for extremely huge quantities of strong potions, and SELLING all that, well, makes you the medieval, dragonborn Rockefeller.

Also, the Alchemy skill should level faster (only the first few levels that is) when not using overly strong ingredients, and at least when you try to reach the "Experimenter 3"-Perk, I know of some people whose characters know ALMOST (speaking only 1 or 2 they don't) all ingred.-effects (ingame, not just looking up on any sheets found on the net) without use of Experimenter, and that makes experimenter USELESS. Esp. since it is so hard to reach, it should be the second (swapped with Benefactor), since you more likely choose Benefactor and max. out Alchemist, which in turn creates overly strong potions as well, making leveling up even easier. --MarukiTheFaceHater 17:05, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Experimenter isn't worth any perks. Spending perks on Experimenter is a total waste since (as you say) the perks immediately become obsolete when you know all the effects. In my opinion, effects on ingredients should automatically be revealed when eaten based on your Alchemy level. Since I play on console, I can simulate this by giving myself an Experimenter perk at Alchemy 25, 50 and 75. --Fluff 17:17, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, yeah. I finally gave up on Alchemy and cheated to give myself Experimenter 1-3. I got sick of the game crashing and ruining my savegames, DESPITE I SAVE MULTIPLE SAVES BEFORE CRASHING, and everytime I land at the savegame I took 1 hours ago. Also, I always restarted from scratch when a new patch was downloaded, since I got the feeling (don't know from which games, but there was a lot) that patching and continuing your savegames may cause errors and lots of hickups. (Oh yeah, Vampire Masquerade for example: after Patching, every Human was a Vampire, while many Vamps turned into Humans, Skills were broken, scripts missing , etc., only a NEW GAME after Patching solved all that.) So yeah, I had leveld "Alchemy 90" in 20 Savegames, and "Smithing 100" like 200 savegames, only to try to fix the crashes and do that, reinstall, etc. and restart over. I'm sick of it, and since I know all the ingredients' effects (the useful ones anyway), only have to think around. That is because I am not a native english speaker but have an English Game (as always, can't STAND any localized versions) and find it too hard to memorize all hundred ingredients and all their 4 effects, but, yeah, Wheat+Giants toe, Nirnroot+LunaMoth/Icewraith, yeah that's easy to memorize; so I cheated. Yeah. First and only time, and I was at Alchemy 86 when it crashed over and over. So I just gave me the skill and plan on giving it to my character to start with, when I am forced to restart a new game. No cheating, just even the odds. If they can't program a flawless game, and put in a Useless Skill (you can only get when it is too late already), might as well take it from the get go.--MarukiTheFaceHater 17:19, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

VN: Stacking Fortify Restoration Potions

I don't think I've experienced it exactly how the article says. In my experience, Fortify Restoration potions have only stacked if they have differing base magnitudes. For instance, the example as listed in the article would not stack; drinking all three would just waste two of them. However, if the base magnitude of each potion was different (90%, 100%, 110%), each successive potion would gain the effects of the previous. Can anyone else offer input? --Fluff 04:47, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I was able to get a *huge* multiplier drinking multiple bottles of the exact same strength, so I don't appear to be having that problem (I'm on PS3. FWIW). 209.66.120.3 22:40, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

I've seen the same behavior as Fluff on Xbox. Something wicked 18:04, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the potions must be different values in strength. It shows the potion strength in the info increases for each successive potion, however, if you go to your active effects screen in magic, you will see that the 2nd boosts, but the 3rd exact same potion used puts you somewhere in the middle. The best way to do this is to make the a few potions of different strengths. Start with one bonused peice of gear, make a few potions, put on a 2nd peice of boosting gear, make a few more, and continue til you have all 4 peices equipped. This will give you several different strengths of potions and you can get to insanely high bonuses drinking the strongest one all the way down to the weakest one and back up again to get the strongest bonus total. I spent most of last night discovering this, but then came here to show everyone and you all already knew it =P

They don't stack, but they don't need to stack. When you drink one, it will remove the first effect but still boost the effect of the next one you drink. Plus, if you use it to reequip and boost your fortify alchemy equipment and then make another one to drink, they'll have a different effect amount each time anyway. 98.162.248.232 06:55, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

My experience has consistently been when reloading that a merchant's wares revert back to what they were last time I visited; coin balance as it was after our previous transactions were completed, items purchased from my inventory present, etc. Xbox

I would like to figure a way around this, anyone else seen this to be the pattern? — Unsigned comment by OpheliaRising (talk • contribs) at 15:58 on 19 February 2012

Frenzy/fear at later levels?

Can someone tell me at higher levels (50-80) if frenzy/fear poisons are at all effective with maxed skill, and all available alchemy perks? Because I know they are level dependent. Thanks in advance Thekidd84 22:48, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Well i for one am displeased with fear/frenzy/the other effect i can't remember because i never use it. At level 81 frenzy/fear/(the other one)spells and poisons don't work. Enemies are too high a level to be effected normally. The only way to get any of the aforementioned effects to work is to use one of the alchemy loop exploits (i'll assume you know about them or can search the site for yourself). You would basically create a frenzy/fear poison of god magnitude or a weapon that does the same (although it would require multiple soul gems to charge it enough for just one use). In summary, use alchemy loop and make better poisons as the legit poisons just don't cut it..

You won't get much higher than level 25 with all the perks, skill at hundred and wearing four fortify alchemy items.

Removed note.

• Experimenting with ingredients that do not result in a potion being created does not progress the alchemy skill.

Removed because: Actually, combinations that result in nothing do increase the skill, albeit by a very small amount. --139.153.52.136 21:56, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Also removed: There is a bug where by loading two saves that are 48 hours apart, will refresh a shops inventory, this works when buying alchemy ingredients. Make 2 saves 48 hours apart by the alchemy shop keeper, on the last save buy all the ingredients and save the game. Load the game which is 48 hours prior to this. Speak to the shop keeper and look at his goods. Now reload the last save and the shop keeper will have fresh goods again, buy save, repeat. This is useful if your load times are significantly faster than a 48 hour wait.

This is inefficient.

It is much easier to simply kill the NPC and reload, as it yields the same result. --139.153.52.136 22:00, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

HOW are you supposed to kill the NPC? Console->left click-> KILL, then reload doesn't yield any result at all, only that you reloaded, yeah. Do you need to KILL the person via attacking?--MarukiTheFaceHater 06:23, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

       Buy -> save -> equip weapon -> club shopkeeper to death -> load = shop resets (works on all shopkeepers, even the essential ones like enthir)

Anyone know who tends to sell the most apothcary stock, like ingrediants? I realize it is supposed to be random. surly people notice one person selling more then others...

Or just quit the game and reload. That's it.

How do you increase the level in general, when playing at a level 40 none of the fear/frenzy potions are higher than a level 20-30. I've never been able to utilize these since my enemies have all been higher than the level of potions I can create?

Purity perk

I've never gotten this perk, and I can imagine that when you get this the following probably won't bother you anyway, but I was thinking: if bad effects to potions/good effects to poisons increase the value of the brew anyway, doesn't this perk lower the value? I haven't seen any notes, unless I'm blind or they're hidden, stating this. Can this be confirmed? Anyone? ~ Dwarfmp 02:13, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it does exactly this. There aren't even any useful potions or poisons that can be made only with Purity. The Useful Potions page has a list of all the potions and poisons that can only be made with this perk. As you can see, it's pretty underwhelming. --Fluff 03:13, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Seems a *lot* of these "Ultimate" perks aren't really so great. Oh well- at least Twin Souls and Extra Effect are amazing. 76.90.130.126 20:42, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, 76.90.130.126, you got it. Esp. Alchemy has too many overpowered, yet too late to get Perks: when you finally have Green Thumb and all the other perks needed for that one, there is no need to advance further into the other half of the perk tree, since Experimenter is useless altogether, and "Purity" drops the Price of "Good+Bad-Potions" (Potions with Poison effects, and Poison with Potion effects) down to the "Pure Potion's price"; Same with Poison resitance; I play on Master, Level 37, and have yet to meet an Enemy that uses poison besides the Chaurus and Spiders. And even their Poison, heck, I walk it off, with a little help from a health potion.--MarukiTheFaceHater 09:41, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

That's exactly what I wanted to aks here from you. Snakeblood: what for? Is it even possible for anything or anyone to use posion against you apart from the already mentioned Spider/Chaurus creatures? I thought that Bandits and the like would use it on their Bows and other weapons. Just like in Oblivion (even though they usually had some pretty useless poisons like Drain Personality 5 points for 15 secs :D and naturally on Iron Battleaxes...) at least they had poisons as it is realistic. Goblins also had Posions to use against the player. I've heard rumors that Falmers have been spotted using poisons just like in Oblivion but I personally think this is not the case. Any thoughts on this, fellow travelers? Have you found any usefulness in this perk?

Falmer do use poisons, even though they're usually really pathetic like weak poison or weak lingering poison, but you're right this perk sucks.

Alchemy training bug

I've observed a bug where training Alchemy with Arcadia in Whiterun from a skill level of 33 initially does not raise the skill even though gold is removed and training sessions for the level are incremented. Further training works normally. I've only observed this happening at skill level 33. I thought this was very strange, but I'm not using any mods so I wanted to seek confirmation. Kastagir 05:46, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

I've experienced this exact same bug with *several* trainers (and at different skills/levels), although all of them seem to be in Whiterun.

Like you said, it will happen every single time with that trainer at that level- it's *definitely* a bug.

You should be fine if you use a different trainer, or raise one skill level some other way- both of those work for me (PS3). 76.90.130.126 20:39, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, making potions to increase the skill from 33 to 34 and then resuming training circumvents the problem. I'm not aware of other trainers, or the affected levels. If anyone can provide this information, I can verify it myself and post it in the respective locations. This is a bug and needs to be documented. Kastagir 22:15, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Effects Fortify Restoration Exploit Affects

This is a topic for any and all effects you have tested the fortify restoration exploit on or any requests for an effect to be tested. Platform may be relevant so post that as well. It should be noted that as of 1.3 skills can no longer be improved beyond 100. In order to test any effects your character must be created with he patch removed and any exploited fortify restoration potions created pre-patch. All potions *should* carry over when/if you patch regardless of potency, although fortify skill potions will still have no effect past skill level 100.

Effects confirmed: Any armor enchantment with a # value including unique enchantments (xbox).Perks with # value(s)(xbox).

Effects to be tested: Other abilities i.e. prowlers profit, Negative Effects, Self targeting Spells (conjuration and cloak spells).

Effects confirmed to not work: Standing stones.

Alchemy/Enchanting endgame gear

Using Alchemy/Enchanting makes a great endgame goal for powergaming gear. However, there are two problems with this mechanic as-is:

- mixing Enchanting potions only gives a miniscule gain compared to store-bought Enchanting potions

- mixing Restoration potions to enhance enchanted Alchemy gear creates a stupidly good infinite loop (as described by authors: Fluff, Something wicked, Aliana, Evil4Zerggin, Llwynn)

I would like to share my experiments with a procedure that results in powerful endgame gear without creating godmode stats in the millions. My character has 100 skill in Alchemy (plus level 5 Alchemist and Benefactor) as well as 100 skill in Enchanting (plus level 5 Enchanter, Insightful Enchanter, Corpus Enchanter and Extra Effect). I think using the double headgear Falmer helm + circlet bug (feature) is legit, so you can enchant 5 items for endgame gear: the Falmer helm, circlet, bracers, ring and necklace.

1. Drink the best Enchanting potion
2. Enchant 5 items with Fortify Alchemy
3. Equip and mix a Fortify Restoration potion
4. Drink and reequip Fortify Alchemy gear
5. Mix a Fortify Enchanting potion
6. Repeat

Following the above procedure gives a smooth, asymptotic increase in gear quality with iterations:

Iteration	Enchanting Potion	Alchemy Gear	Restoration Potion
1	25%	28%	144%
2	66%	34%	162%
3	82%	37%	171%
4	90%	39%	177%
5	96%	40%	180%
6	99%	41%	183%
7	102%	42%	186%
8	105%	43%	too tired

--Gregthechemist 19:51, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

It's more efficient to not upgrade your enchanted Alchemy equipment and just make/drink Restoration potions. See Breaking the Game with Alchemy (and_maybe_a_bit_of_Enchanting). --Fluff 22:30, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Aye there, fluffy, you're rite. I made some vids off this, and can say that you ONLY need 2-3 Items (but if you get 4 it goes faster) with about 9-12% magnification, and then make Fort. Restoration Potions, take the Potion, unequip+re-equip the Apparel, and repeat. After about 7-8 Repeats, you get a "Fort. Restoration" with about 30-40.000%, and will make a "Fort. Enchanting Potion" with at least 2000% Strength - so using that Potion you can then Enchant overly strong items, but if you keep making Restoration Potions, you end up with multiple 100.000% strong Enchantment Potions (highest one I made was 10 million something, after another run it went into -75395241% or something low like that, negative value, so the game's calculation broke at that point) which create 10.000's % strong Equipment -> instant game restart for me, there's no need to keep playing like that, LOL! Imagine "Invisibility for 578987 seconds" or "2768 Points of Lingering Health Damage for 10 seconds", or "Fortify One-Handed 25678% for 60 seconds", no enemy can resist that much damage. Not to speak of fort. Smithing and then improving your armour, which effectively makes your Character more damage-resistant than mighty Jyggalag himself! KYNARETH SAVE US!--MarukiTheFaceHater 19:44, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Alchemy Leveling tool

I have made a tool to help people with alchemy, right now its only functionality is for finding the optimal potions for leveling up based on what ingredients you have.

http://skyrim-alchemy.com

Sachmophoclies 03:32, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Another one is Merlin Warlock's Ultimate Alchemy Wizard

Natural Alchemy Tips?

Has anyone picked up on any particular traits of an ingredient that indicate what it does? How, short of eating it or just randomly putting it together, could anyone figure out that a blue mountain flower and wheat go together?

Orwell 04:26, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Hey Orwell, good question there; but I think that it's been like that in every Elder Scrolls game; you have to eat or (if the game allowed) slap them together with good luck;

Oblivion for ex. had the stupid system of linking identifying to LEVEL, so you had to be Alchemy 100 (Master) to identify all the 4 Effects, if you'd try to make a potion you only got the effects you already discovered.

But in terms of realism, it would've been better to give a HINT (like colour, naming, weight, plant-type you harvest the ingredient from) to what the MAIN effects are - Orgnar (or whatever his name was) links you to Blisterwort and Wheat (ironically Blisterwort is relatively expensive, whilst one can find Blue mountain flower much easier, even on the first visit to Riverwood, all along the roads), but that's as far as the game goes on telling beginners what's going on.

With Realism I mean: IRL you just don't combine absinthe and cola, cause it tastes horrible. Whilst you can booze the whole night with vodka and cola, and it tastes wonderful. So a little hint would be the booze is made from herbs and very aromatic, while cola somewhat contradicts that taste. Just and example, and a bad one, but I can't come up with something better right now.--MarukiTheFaceHater 17:21, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

While it doesn't completely answer your question, a great tip (and this isn't in the article, at least not clearly written out as far as I can see) is to eat ingredients, and then combine two known similiar effects and add a random third ingredient to see if it pops any new effect. The added effect could be any match on 1-2, 1-3 or 2-3. This is how I found out all the known effects I know of :). This way, you still get a benefitial potion that 1) increases your alchemy skills, and 2) that you can use or sell (to buy more ingredients to eat/combine maybe? :D). Is this excess information or should it go into the article? The article simply mentions eating and combining randomly (which I interpreted as combining into "potion of unknown effect" and hoping for the best). Of course, I might be the only one interpretrating it that way? -- Ikee 23:48, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Experimenter Prerequisite for Purity

"Although the in-game perk tree indicates that the prerequisite perk for Purity is Snakeblood, in fact the only required perk is Experimenter."

Does this also mean that if you only take Alchemist -> Physician -> Poisoner -> Concentrated Poison -> Snakeblood, that you will not be able to select Purity? If this is the case then this fact should probably also be mentioned in the note, otherwise the table should be changed to read "Experimenter or Snakeblood ‡". 98.228.90.26 04:36, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

---

Absolutely some of the ingredients do what you would expect them to do if you just guessed, either due to a historic knowledge of it from earlier games or from just "it makes sense". If that is what was meant by "naturally".

Some examples: vampire dust and invisibility is a given, troll fat and frenzy is a no brainer, or it should be no surprise that frost/fire/void salts from astronachs provide various effects to resist elements or weakness to elements. Other things are a total mystery: who would have guessed that grass pods enhance alteration magic??

It is not much, at best a wise player who has been kicking around since daggerfall might be able to guess 1 effect off 1/2 the total ingredients this way, but if the player is hardcore and not willing to look at the lists but wants to figure it out, it would be a starting point.

^ That is indeed how it works 98.228.90.26 -_-. I was a bit miffed about the fact that I placed my skill points in the order of Alchemist -> Physician -> Poisoner -> Concentrated Poison -> Snake Blood only to find out far, FAR too late that I was unable to take the final perk in the tree. It's fairly obvious that the dipshit who coded this put Experimenter and Snake Blood the wrong way around.--62.30.162.142 00:35, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Benefactor or Physician perks enhancing existing enchanted gear?

I'll start with an example. My character has a helmet that gives 28% fortify destruction. That's what the tooltip says when I'm in Items->Armor.

However when I check at Magic->Active Effects, it says the fortify destruction is actually 35%. This is true with all the enchantments on all my gear, they're all 25% higher in effect than they should be, as shown in Magic->Active Effects. As a result my two handed damage is also higher (as I have items enchanted with +two handed damage). I have no way to explain how this happens other than that it seems to have started after picking up the Physician and Benefactor perks.

Does anyone else experience this? Does either of this perks offer an unintended bonus to all existing armor enchantments?

Determining whether brew is poison or potion

I play the game "naturally" so I havn't looked up ingredients on the web, so I'll post my question/hypothesis here:

In the article it says: "To create a potion (or poison) you must combine two or more ingredients which share a magical effect. If the shared effect is a beneficial one (e.g., Restore Health), you create a potion; if the shared effect is a negative one (e.g., Damage Health), you create a poison. Multiple-effect potions can be created if the combined ingredients share more than one effect in common. A list of useful craftable potions is provided at Useful Potions."

I didn't see this specified anywhere in the article (if I missed it (read 2 more times to confirm), I suppose this section should be deleted?), but someone said that "the first effect that is combined will determine this", but after a bit of research, I think the real connection is based on value, but I need help/confirmation from someone that is willing to look up ingredients/have already discovered all effects to test more possibilities. The thesis is:

• The most expensive effect value-wise determines the name, and such it also determines if it is a potion or poison.

I tried to create the most powerful benefitial poison there was (to poison my follower to "boost" them), but I couldn't find any good combinations to try out. I tested most individual values of effects (I suppose they are at some table somewhere, so I won't post them all if not requested), and here are some of the more interesting ones:

(not that it matters, but level 30, alchemy 65, 4/5 alchemist, physician, benefactor and poisoner added)

• Fort Enchanting 36
• Fort Conjuration 198

• Resist Shock 213
• Resist Fire 213
• Resist Frost 213
• Resist Poison 230

• Fort Twohand 294
• Fort Pick 294
• Fort Restore 294
• Fort Sneak 294

• Fort Destruction 378
• Damage Stamina Regen 397

• Damage Magica Regen 663

I have yet to create a potion with the Damage Magica Regen side effects, but Damage Magica Regen Poisons with Fortify Enchant AND Fortify Conjuration is a valid poison. Now this rises a follow-up question, it COULD be Total poison value - Total Potion Value, as in this case it is

• 663 - (198 + 36) > 0

but due to the names of pots having one dominant effect, this hypothis is less likely.

Can someone with a greater knowledge base confirm whether this is true or not? If it is true, can this be added into the article? I'm sure others have wondered :) Ikee 23:36, 20 January 2012 (UTC)ikee

I've been trying to deduce the same thing to include in my online alchemy tool. My conclusion is similar. I think to test this, I'll set my tool up to output the values of the individual effects for various recipes, and compare them to what I produce. Sadly, I just picked up some perks that will make this harder - I may go back to a save game where I didn't have those. - Sebastian Wiers, AKA "Uncle Alchey"

Magic, Not Stealth

I was surprised to see that alchemy was a Magic skill (not stealth) according to the CK. Can someone with a CK please verify that alchemy is affected by the Mage Stone, not the Thief Stone, in the game. If so, a note to that affect should definitely go on the Alchemy page. If not, then maybe we should continue to regard alchemy as a stealth skill, if in the game its rate of increase is governed by the sign of the Thief, but that's another discussion altogether rendered mute if indeed the skill is affected by the Mage Stone inside the game. --A Caveman

There's a big discussion going on about this issue over here. I think there have been notes added about the Stones since then on certain parts of the wiki but not others. Alphabetface 15:33, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

No fun - everything is relative ;-)

I quote:

• Fast and easy method to train alchemy using all your ingredients:

1. Identify as many effects of the ingredients you wish to use as possible (the fun part of the Alchemy skill, if you don't look them up).

/end quote

Everything is relative. Training Alchemy in Skyrim is, to me, extremely boring, time consuming and utterly annoying - so, please, do not add such statement in the wiki, that it is fun, because to me it's definitely not.

This wiki is so good, and I'd rather see it stay that way. It bothered me that it said like that. While some people may like it, others may not …just saying ;-)

Thanks again for this great wiki. — Unsigned comment by Tockenen (talk • contribs) at 04:17 on 25 February 2012

That's a good point. I'll rephrase that line on the article. ?• JA^Talk 05:26, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I know I'm a bit whiny atm - I've struggled so with e.g. the Alchemy part. Now it looks much, much better, and a lot more appropriate (considering it certainly is necessary if you don't look it up). Thanks a lot (blushing now) Tockenen 08:29, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

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