User talk:SerCenKing/Archive-2011-05

This is an archive, please don't post messages here. Post them on my talk page instead.

Welcome Back!!Edit

Hey SerC! Just wanted to welcome you back - hopefully all the exams went well and you are fit for fight; november is coming up! ;) --Krusty 17:13, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks old boy! I'll be around for a while and I'll be contributing as much as I can! :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:22, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Welcome back! Good to see you around again. --GK^talk2me 18:53, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks GK! Hope everything is good with you :) Get your butt in IRC if you've got time ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:55, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

@ work right now, and the java applet's too annoying to mess with. I'll probably be on from home in a couple of hours. --GK^talk2me 19:03, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

The Torture Never Stops...Edit

Hey SerC! For the longest time, I have been annoyed by the ton of missing dialogue recorded for Herdir. It appears that the player originally was supposed to drag Kithlan, Muurine, Nelrene and Anya Herrick down to Herdir’s torture chamber – for some supposed torture and a conversation. I suspect that you can see the conversations a bit clearer than me, though (notice that everything in the Sandbox is in the wrong order) – and since we tend to include important missing dialogue, I see absolutely no reason not to give this a shot. Question is; is it possible for you to recreate the four conversations and insert the dialogue from the four "victims"? --Krusty 21:21, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Ah, up and about! ;) Let me elaborate on my plan with this dialogue. I plan on extracting all the sound bites and edit them together as full audio conversations; basically that means NO written text (I have no idea where to put something like that), but only four audio links on Herdir's page, and one link on each of the "victims"' pages. That's the basic plan anyway... ;) --Krusty 11:27, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Yup, that's an excellent idea! I've put everything as a conversation here. You'll need dialogue from the Conversation tab, SE05InterrogateXX topic, of each of the others clearly. Also, check out this: the new page for the SI revamp! ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:40, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Wow, damn good work! Let’s hope the other editors wants to join, then it should be possible to finish the namespace quickly. I’m not sure Dlarsh has access to a PC on a regular basis, which is why he is not very active – but he’ll notice and reply. You should probably post something motivating on the OBNPCRP page as well – don’t bother with the OPRP page, though – unless you want to rewrite all the guidelines! ;) --Krusty 16:02, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

SI OPRPEdit

Well, just wanted to explain some of the OPRP work I’ve been doing on the complex Shivering Isles pages; now, as I mentioned to you a LONG time ago, both prisons are meant to be real walkthroughs, treated like mini-quests and is therefore considerably longer than your average walkthrough. Also, I evolved the project (including Cyrodiil actually) to include background info on the place, if possible, like Cann. The Isles is filled with hints about “what went on there” and I really think it is worth including. NOT as notes (I hate notes!) but in the walkthroughs themselves. I believe it is much more interesting to include “a story”, instead of a cold-hearted walkthrough describing how to get from A to B as quickly as possible. Also, my entire OPRP output works like this; you look on the walkthrough and the map, then SOMETIMES you look at the game – if the walkthroughs and maps are a perfect match and you get EVERYTHING, the page is perfect. I went through Milchar over ten times before I started writing, and while I realize that I’m not overly keen on providing tips on how to defeat enemies, the walkthroughs make sure you get full value for your exploration. That was the basic idea. That being said, I tend to ramble every once in a while –and pages like Gardens of Flesh and Bone are poorly worded, which sometimes happens when you get to deep into the investigation. Still, you will probably catch all of that – but I felt it necessary to explain, that I changed the guidelines slightly to make more interesting and helpful pages, not only in SI, but in Cyrodiil as well. ☺ Good luck and hail to the King! --Krusty 17:38, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh wow. Ok, I'll do my best to write my walkthroughs like that so they're consistent, and I really like the idea of background history in the main text! After I see what I can check from your pages I'll sandbox Xaselm - I've got this idea of making a separate "Experiments" page with a load of images I've got! --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Haha, no need to be scared - I haven't changed THAT much. Its just the very thought of us writing incredibly "loving" NPC pages - and then incredibly "formal" place pages that bothers me; so I added a bit of "love" to the place pages with background info. Oh, and yesterday I was thinking about writing you a message about Xaselm - one of the best places in OB, and I have been saving it just for you (mostly because I don't have the vocabulary to write a truly sadistic page and the place is pretty overwhelming, so it should probably be a team effort). As always, just holler if there is anything I can help you with. In the meantime, I'm struggling with Syl. --Krusty 10:50, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok so I've a bit busy today. As you already noticed, I've checked the Gardens of Flesh & Bone, which was a really good page. I've also corrected Knotty Bramble from notes I found, tell me if anything else is out of place. Lastly, I noticed you haven't checked Xeddefen, were there any specific problems? --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:21, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Hello again! Gardens.. was a nightmare to write, and I ended up unhappy with a lot of the wording, but you definitely improved it and page looks great! Honestly, I haven't done too much place checking in the Isles (yet), but will get to that. One common problem all over the place(s) are the lack of interior images. There's so many unusual - and pretty sights to enjoy and document, so if you decide to visit any of the places, please snap a few! I'll get to the checking part in the very near future! NPCs keep interrupting - e.g. before I even touch Knotty Bramble, I'll make sure to finish Sickly Bernice while I'm there ect ect. It will take a while, but I will get them done! :) --Krusty 13:34, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Just so you know, I started a revamp of Fetid Grove in this sandbox. --Krusty 22:25, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

SI House PagesEdit

Hello again! Ive been reading through tons of SI-pages since yesterday, and I stumbled upon these pages (with the top one being the worst):

• New Sheoth Palace
• Palace of Sheogorath
• House of Mania
• House of Dementia

Now, with the exception of Palace of Sheogorath, all these pages almost deserve a stub-tag. I propose that we dig up some Lore-like info on the Palace, and rewrite the remaining three pages in typical Guild-like fashion. Then we add them to this category. What do you think? --Krusty 10:23, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Yup that sounds good. I'd already added the bottom three to the Places category along with a stores and inns and so on. Atm I'm looking through all of my notes to see if I can check a few of the places you wrote walkthroughs for. --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Images imagesEdit

I see you've uploaded, and probably still uploading as we speak, new SI images. I replaced one you uploaded, the one with Relmyna and the Gatekeeper. Quite confusing that, Krusty had made another file with that image he edited to use on the Relmyna page, and all that... This is sensitive stuff, images, I mean, Krusty likes his images ps3 like, and I am still not sure how images are supposed to look. You have your own way of editing I suppose, and to be honest, I'm not a fan of your images, with all due respect again. I'm just a perfectionist and, as I've done before, whenever I can take a screenshot, I'm likely to replace one you've uploaded. I don't know how you feel about that, but this something we have to discuss cause I don't want any awkwardness etc. To be precise about what I don't like about your images is the sort of unnatural sharpness, I think, on creatures/NPC's, and simply the pose or expression. This is not apparent on your 'places' screenshots at first glance. Basically, I don't think the quality is the best it can get. Do you max out the graphics in the options? Cause I wonder. Sorry if I sound rude, but I need to get this off my chest. ~ Dwarfmp 17:07, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, to be honest, when comparing SerC’s new images to the PS3 version, the PS3 version is still much sharper. I’m sorry, but it is not what I like, it is what I know. It is a fact that the PS3 version was optimized in the graphics/sharpness department and is superior to other versions in that regard. You guys have to download a mod to see stuff that was supposed to be in the horizon, I simply see them in the vanilla version.

That being said, and looking through the history of this image I see confusion, and absolutely no reason to revert Dwarfmp’s image with an almost similar one and I can understand his reasoning. As a matter of fact, I remember reverting to the current version (or something like that), and uploading the graded version for a more interesting thumb (yup, I’ll sacrifice everybody to make a good thumb), so it seems like the history is messed up – maybe we changed the name and I don’t remember – my original plan was to keep this image on the quest page, and keep the other image exclusively for Relmyna’s page., a page me and Dwarfmp collaborated on back in the day. So, to keep up the good spirits, could be agree on a small PM to each other before reverting? That is so much simpler – and, as evident during this discussion, everybody has different references and tastes – we’ll need to respect that, and that is why I’ll PM Dwarfmp before I make any changes from now on. --Krusty 17:49, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

If I can absolutely honest I'm really, really confused. What's this PS3 thing you guys are talking about?? Is it to do with video quality? With regards to this image, I don't remember reverting anything and the file history seems to agree with me :D But seriously, I just saw that it was one of my older images and replaced it. I didn't see the history at all, as I was quite in rush yesterday. I'm happier with the version we have now - I realized I didn't have a light spell but I couldn't be bothered to get one so it came out really washed out. As for the duplication of images, that's probably too much for my brain to handle at the moment ;) I'll let you guys sort that one out!

To reply specifically to Dwarfmp, it's funny you mentioned unnaturalness because of the latest batch I uploaded I think I only edited three or four, all the other are straight from the game, unaltered. Comparing our images, I think the difference is I have HDR enabled and you don't. You seem to work mostly on the brightness/contrast tool, which is why they sometimes come out a bit hazy whereas HDR tends to sharpen the image and improve the lighting. As for pose and expression, the variety of facial expression in OB is not exactly vast, and to be fair I can't see much difference between our images.

In any case, I still think we're making mountains out of molehills with this image business. I don't revert images and clearly if there is specific issue I've always taken it up to the person in question, like I did with rpeh. But the point is this: we shouldn't even need to do this. There is no point in walking on each other's feet and retaking each other's images when both are, frankly, absolutely fine. We all have our ideals of perfection, and I think we should accept that that ideal might not actually be the best one possible. --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:38, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Purely on that one quest image, I don't really like either of them. SerC's version is a little small and the colours a touch cartoonish, but Dwarfmp's version makes it look like the gatekeeper is attacking Relmyna, although the colours are fine. I'll try to take a version of my own just to make things even more complex :) rpeh •T•C•E• 11:26, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

What's a molehill? :P So it is the anti-aliasing, as I expected, that is my problem. I have that maxed with Bloom lightning, which you can't use with HDR. The ps3 sort of image is actually just a high-contrast thing, it's very obvious if you surf the site on a ps3 :P. When you took a break from the wiki, I was still under the impression my images were too dark, so I kept turning the brightness up etc, and then they indeed looked hazy, and I thought they were too bright myself. Now however, I seem to have nailed (I believe) how to edit an image. I use color-fix, saturation add, lightness add, brightness and much more contrast, but I don't do it to an unnatural degree of course. The unnaturality I mentioned from your images is precisely the fact it looks like the image is from a game, it needs a balance of high quality graphics and still look original. Apparently, I seem to have an eye for poses and angles and the like, if I may say so myself. Yes I'm still going on about this, but this is important to me. If the wiki can be improved, it should be. I guess that does come down to personal preference, which is what makes it so sensitive. And trust me, I take a LOT of screenshots, sometimes with barely or no differences, just to pick out the right one. Sorry if I sound like a pain in the ***, but that is how I feel, and since two of my images are featured (yes at least one of yours is featured too as I recall), people seem to agree I know how to do this. Just to remind you, no disrespect is intended, and I'm definitely not looking to start a fight or anything.

To make this sort of discussion easier, I'm just going to ask: is it alright when I replace images you uploaded? ~ Dwarfmp 12:05, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

I have HDR and AA because I can hack it on my graphics card, but in any case, the reason I downsize to 1000x1000 instead of using a full size of 1050x1050 is to blur edges in case there are any jagged ones left. rpeh •T•C•E• 12:10, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Hacking, I see. I don't get it though, I use the 1440x900 resolution in game, the highest possible. I don't see how you can get to 1050. And for some reason, either my program or the image's height is cut down to 899 :/ ~ Dwarfmp 12:22, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Well maybe not hacking. Nvidia cards have an option in the drivers to add AA to any game whether or not it normally supports it. The list of image resolutions also comes from the graphics card, so I get 1680x1050 in the list on my main PC. On my laptop I get 1900x1200 - but the less said about that computer's ability to play Oblivion on anything above 640x480, the better! rpeh •T•C•E• 12:27, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

(outdent) Unfortunately, my graphics card can only take either HDR or AA. I recall playing around with HDR vs Bloom/AA and I think I ended up liking HDR more. In general, I edit the shot as little as I can, so that it reflects the game as much as possible. NPCs and places as they appear in-game are natural, by definition; anything else has a lesser degree of "naturality". The purpose is to document the game, ergo I keep images as faithful to the original as possible, otherwise it defeats the whole point.

Regarding your question, the point I would make is this: I do not own the images I upload and I cannot, and will not, force you to not upload another version provided that there actually a sensible reason. Unfortunately, "I don't like it" isn't. There's quite a list of things I don't like enormously on the wiki, but as it's a community rather than personal site I don't mind. Inevitably different people have different ways of taking images, as they have different ways of editing. As your personal taste is by no means absolute, what I would ask is for you to ask yourself "Is it absolutely, completely, strictly necessary to replace this image?" before going ahead. There are a lot of my old images (basically all those in 600x600 and 720x720) which I want replaced and I would love for you to help me out. However, there are hundreds of other images that need replacing too; and it makes no sense to waste time and effort by treading on each other's feet and replacing images which are absolutely fine. Now, I want to get back to imaging and editing, so please let's settle this. --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:59, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Una ArminaEdit

If you get a deja-vu from the header, no worries - I just wanted to notify you that I revamped Una Armina's page based on all your observations located here. I realize she still has tons of dialogue not documented on the page, but I also think we have to draw the line somewhere - but a table made room for some more dialogue, so there you go. For once, I think that it is inhuman to expect anybody to check the dialogue in-game (please find two Sheogorath-Shaped Amber), so basically, with the exception of the dialogue outside of the table, you have already checked it once. Also, if you feel like writing a little schedule, I just added Hirrus Clutumnus to my Sandbox - due to his stalking nature, it is impossible to write the schedule from the game and I have a feeling it will be different before and during the quest. Meanwhile, I'll correct all of his dialogue (wrote it myself back in the day and have been annoyed by it since then) and get it right this time. --Krusty 10:41, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Sure thang! ;) I'll get to both. Also, I'm starting to figure out the Xedilian adventurers' dialogue with a mix of CS and in-game. I'll sandbox them later and if you could lend a hand that would be great! --SerCenKing ^Talk 11:44, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Haha, sure - let's finish it! You just say the word and I'll return to Kiliban for yet another painful venture into randomness! --Krusty 11:49, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Seems like we worked on Hirrus Clutumnus at the same time! Thanks for adding the schedule; I'll try and merge the smaller parts with the dialogue, just to see how it plays out as a "story". At least NOW it looks like a true quest-related NPC page from the Isles! --Krusty 13:23, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Shivering Isles QuestionsEdit

Okay, this is where I'll ask all the questions that I have kept in store for your return! First of all, we have a ton of Dark Seducer/Golden Saint NPC pages with the note: She does not have a persuasion option available in her dialogue menu. Now, since the NPC pages are HUGE to begin with, wouldn't it be much easier on the eyes if we stick that information on the Dark Seducer / Golden Saints pages? I'd much rather note if some of the named guards actually HAVE a persuasion option... --Krusty 20:30, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, none of the named Dark Seducers or Golden Saints have the persuasion option available. I'll put it on the respective pages. --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:39, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Brilliant! Notes, be gone! Btw, I launched the Fetid Grove revamp; should be quite easy to check, IF you are bored... :D --Krusty 11:09, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do. Atm I'm still figuring out the Xedilian adventurer dialogue. I think I've nailed Syndelius now, although I can't get him to say "Yes. Seems whoever designed this place only meant for us to get hurt." --SerCenKing ^Talk 11:38, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I'll make my way through Xedilian now - in a random attempt to help out. --Krusty 11:43, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

(←) Okay, here comes the next question; unhappy with the incredible amount of text on the NPC pages, we need some action shots. I'll compile the list tonight, along with all my suggestions, but where to put it? An e-mail to you, perhaps? Then maybe you can fit the list into the images section of the SIRP? --Krusty 17:19, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Yup, that sounds cool to me. :) Email them and I'll get them done tomorrow and/or monday. --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:24, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Gotcha. I bet similar lists will pop up in the Places and Quests sections, but I'll try and handle the NPCs for now. Btw, I'm getting ready for Xeddefen (which is why I chose to Sandbox Shelden) and that page is in SERIOUS need of some images... ;) --Krusty 17:28, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I just wanted to mention I have saves throughout the whole main quest, and I'd be happy to take some shots, which should take some load of your shoulders. ~ Dwarfmp 17:58, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good, Dwarfmp! If SerC can get it up and running on the project page, you are, as always, more than welcome to participate! Looking forward to break up the walls of text. --Krusty 18:07, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

To avoid spending too much time transcribing it, I've just emailed you a couple, Dwarfmp. --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:02, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

(←) Here's another one - or a reminder from our IRC convo earlier today: Can you check the conditions for the following lines of dialogue for Shelden:

• Thanks for the help, I suppose. Although you seem to be doing your best to get me killed.
• Well, that was humbling.
• Everything is gone. What a shame.
• It is my home. I... I feel so strange. There's this cold feeling inside of me when I think about what's been done. So cold. I think... I think it might be... sadness? Why would its destruction make me sad?
• Things are coming along nicely here. Soon enough, they'll have no choice but to do everything I say.

Also, if you could doublecheck if he resumes his "old" schedule after the Main Quest, I'd be a happy camper! Thanks in advance! :) --Krusty 19:19, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, here are the conditions:

• It's the "SheldenCutOff" variable from the SE08Xed hidden quest but I can't figure out what the different numbers mean. Try rpeh on this one.
• After you've spoken to him and you're Sheogorath
• Ask him about Passwall before Retaking the Fringe is over (small q: will he always have the "Passwall" dialogue option? If so does he keep on saying the same dialogue as during Through the Fringe of Madness?)
• He has to be in the "Ordered" Fringe and you mustn't have started Rebuilding the Gatekeeper (I think). Also, it's random - either 20% or 80% I'll have to learn how to read GetRandomPercent! ;)

Also, you may have noticed I've corrected the map overlays for Xeddefen and this afternoon I'll take a trip to Cylarne so expect pics! :D --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:06, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, although you only answered 4 out of 5 dialogue lines? Or am I going blind? Also, for me to relaunch Shelden's page (and if you have the save) could you check in-game after the Main Quest - just to see if he actually returns to his old routine/schedule? I'll head back to Xeddefen for the final tweaks according to the new maps. A very annoying question is coming up about Xeddefen before relaunch. Watch these pages! :D --Krusty 14:56, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Haha ok "Everything is gone. What a shame." is the same as "Things are coming along nicely here." except it's not random, and you only hear it once. Unfortunately I don't have a save after the main quest since I'm still playing through after I got the new Steam GOTY version. :( --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:52, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay, whatever you do, KEEP Shelden alive! ;) I'm done updating the Xeddefen page in my Sandbox, and a small perfectionist task for you will hit the Xeddefen thread in a few minutes. Until then, I'll run some tests on Shelden. --Krusty 16:04, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Nevermind, Dlarsh popped into the IRC and helped me check the post-main quest stuff in-game. He resumes his usual routine and says all three Sheogorath-lines, so basically, with the exception of the line It is my home. I... I feel so strange. There's this cold feeling inside of me when I think about what's been done. So cold. I think... I think it might be... sadness? Why would its destruction make me sad?, the page is finished. Oddly, he would only start to reflect on the destroyed town AFTER you initiate Rebuilding the Gatekeeper. The missing line will be added to the Problematic NPCs page in case anybody can figure it out. Over and out. Now, I'll run through Xaselm, just to prepare a little. --Krusty 20:14, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

(←) Hey SerC! I was wondering if you could take a second look here. I just made a few corrections to Dredhwen, but two things annoys me a bit: The "Blindness" section and the Bug Note. Both of them are longer than her schedule and should be shortened. I'm not sure how to do it, though, so I was hoping you could take a quick look. Thanks in advance! --Krusty 12:34, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Yet another question (yep, they're piling up these days) Actually, it's two questions, and simple ones I hope: I think that Felas Sarandas needs some kind of bug description due to his lack of sleep. Also, will he be disabled between Retaking the Fringe and Rebuilding the Gatekeeper? Also, I just revamped the page for unknown Ra'kheran but was forced to add a note and two bugs due to weird behavior. Can you take a look and maybe come up with some determining factors? Thanks! --Krusty 07:54, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Back! Sorry for disappearing for a week, I've been trekking/camping in the Alps and I forgot to leave a notice! Ok, both of the Dredhwen things look like they've been written from in-game so I can't really help you there (couldn't find that "Blindness" thing in the CS). I'll get Felas and Ra'kheran asap :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:29, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I was wondering where you went! For Dredhwen, it is merely a question about shortening both the bug and the blindness-section, so they still make sense. "Blindness" should just be a note, however. New revamps for Felas, Shelden, Ciirta (I'm very proud of that one) and Ra'kheran are up. Ah well, you can just look through the updates on the project page. Remember the Camps section on the same page - if you can't find the time, I can easily do it. ;) --Krusty 09:35, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I'll take a look at them. I saw you're doing Nanette Don, so I just wanted to remind you of this. I'll give it another look in the CS later. I'm adding the camps atm! ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:40, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for reminding me about that old talk page post - I'll make sure to keep all the issues in mind when working my way through the page. Nanette will have to wait a bit, though - I forgot I added Adeo to another Sandbox last evening. Good luck in The Howling Halls; probably the most interesting ruin I have examined for the longest time - and notice, that I added cleanup tags to all three maps. :) --Krusty 11:43, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

(←) Okay, this is a bit embarrassing, since we both agreed that Adeo's dialogue was written and checked, at least that's what the tag says - and I didn't even check her again for the dialogue! Still, the line (DyloraTopic) "She is our commander. She leads us. Without her, we are at a loss. I have done what I can to take her place, but I know I am insufficient. Order has kept her hostage so that she cannot return to us and lead us. If we can free her, she may know how best to defeat them." does NOT appear in the game, or maybe I just can't find it? Can you take a second look at the conditions/packages? --Krusty 12:38, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

You have to be between stages 10 and 30 of the Helpless Army. Quick q: do you aways get the "Where is Dylora?" topic? --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:53, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Yup; "Where is Dylora now" and "What kind of opposition" - no "Dylora"-topic regardless of what I try. --Krusty 12:57, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

OK try entering Pinnacle and then see if it comes up, those two topics should not be visible after you've talked to her the first time. --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:02, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

No dice - she just says; We must find Dylora and free her! - and then exit conversation. She will do that until you free Dylora, then she will talk again - but not about Dylora. --Krusty 13:04, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I'll write the bug desc now, I think I've got it ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:09, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Nice, just add it to my Sandbox. And can you confirm that she loses her essential status at stage 49? --Krusty 13:16, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I've added it to the Adeo page, sorry! Anyway, I can't find a specific reference but she should die of a scripted death??? This is quite confusing. :S --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:24, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Haha, I already realized that this page is a terrible, incomplete mess. Neither Dylora nor Adeo suffer a "scripted death" - they are both putrified at one point, but will both wake up again. After the final showdown at the Font, Adeo will be killable, while Dylora will remain essential. So much work... Let's wait with that for now! :D --Krusty 13:31, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

(←) No day without an annoying question, and once again about dialogue: I just played through The Lady of Paranoia, probably for the 50th time, and checked everything concerning Nelrene. Only problem is – she will ALWAYS greet you with “What do you want?” and NEVER with "You should not be here, Inquisitor. Perhaps you are lost? I have business to attend to. Excuse me." Can you check the usual conditions and see if we have a bug? Thanks! --Krusty 11:57, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Oops, solved this myself a few days ago. :) -- Krusty 11:02, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

XeddefenEdit

Hey SerC! I’ve crawled through Xeddefen a few times now, and it seems like we have a few tweaks to consider; after your escape from the ruin during Retaking the Fringe, the first two zones of Xeddefen will be open to public and will more or less be a destroyed version of the original ruin, unfortunately with a few differences; it will still be crawling with Order and the bridge over the central room in Xeddefen, Fane will be inaccessible due to two iron gates on either side. Also, the hidden wall in the first zone will still be present.

After the Main Quest, when The Fringe is restored to its former glory, we have more differences; first of all, the map-marker for Xedeffen disappears, making it possible to discover Xeddefen twice, the “backdoor to the destroyed version (zone 6) of Xeddefen, Fales will be blocked by a huge statue and the first zone will be open to public, now in its 4th version, as displayed in zone 7, with an oddly placed Weak Potion of Healing near a skeleton. I have a feeling that Gardens of Flesh and Bone can be discovered twice as well, but these thing should be mentioned a bit more clearly on the page. My Sandbox is your Sandbox! Oh, and notice the huh-tag in the second zone; I’m not sure I understand the meaning of that sentence. Also, I tweaked your pre-quest walkthrough for zone 2, because you cannot access it from both doors. --Krusty 10:16, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I didn't really check what happened to the first zones immediately after; as soon as I reach Retaking the Fringe I'll get to it. As for the sentence on the withering moons, it means that the plants are too far up for you to harvest them. I don't know if this is worth mentioning (we'd have to do it on a load of pages) but I did it just in case someone spent hours trying to find all the moons before realizing they're out of reach. ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:21, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I was curious, so I checked it - it is ALMOST the same as before, but it is worth a few sentences explaining the destroyed version of the zones. Maybe as a Note, which is probably appropriate for the map marker and the other stuff as well? Anyway, I'll dig into the quest-related stuff now. ;) --Krusty 10:35, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Just need to add this somewhere in case it is worth mentioning somewhere; both Xeddefen and Gardens of Flesh and Bone can be found "twice", and it will update your "places found" on the Accomplishments Page. Interesting stuff, actually! --Krusty 11:00, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

So, the final task for this nightmarish ruin is: PLANTS! I noticed that the amount of Plants in the Notes section doesn't match the amount listed in the sections. I think the first two zone sections needs to list plants before and during the quest (if there is any difference, of course) and that the Notes section should be longer (along the lines of "during the related quest, two ??? plants and five ??? plants is added") - or something like that. I'll let you make the decision - and the editing! ;) Sandbox is here. Good luck - after that, page is finished. --Krusty 16:18, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Page done and checked - thanks for the help along the way; now I know why I was postponing this ruin. :) --Krusty 17:45, 30 May 2011 (UTC)