User talk:SerCenKing/Archive

This is an archive, please don't post messages here. Post them on my talk page instead.

WelcomeEdit

Hello SerCenKing! Welcome to the wiki. I hope you enjoy using the site and find the information on it useful. If you decide you want to help improve any of our pages, we're always welcoming to new editors so feel free. You might want to look at our Getting Started page for some tips on how to begin, then play in our Sandbox for a while to practice. If you need any help or advice, please ask one of our mentors. Enjoy! --- Game Lord^{Talk|Contribs} 12:54, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

/Description pagesEdit

Hi SerCenKing! Thanks for all the hard work you've been doing recently! I just thought I'd stop by and mention that it's probably beneficial to leave just a little more detail on the /Description pages, so that if and when they're displayed on other articles, they're a little more "descriptive".  ;) Adios, and happy editing! --GuildKnight^Talk2me 01:36, 3 November 2008 (EST)

Hey, thanks for the tip, I'll keep that in mind. Do you think that it would be better to include the location info in the /description pages? My only concern on that is that you can't put links on the /description pages, right? Wouldn't it therefore be better to include the general location of the place in the city in the /description and then the specific location in the article so that the links can be displayed? --SerCenKing 10:39, 3 November 2008 (EST)

Don't forget that the infobox already has links, so it's not really vital that the text has them too. As a general rule, the description page should be detailed enough to help somebody find the place, but no more than that. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:19, 3 November 2008 (EST)

Why?Edit

Sorry... but why are you making edits like this, this and this? Just changing the order of information on the page isn't really improving it very much and is clogging up the Recent Changes page a bit. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:21, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Ups, forgot about that... I was trying to get all of the pages to follow a certain format and since it takes a few seconds I guessed it was worth it... maybe not... Guess I'll stop. --SerCenKing 13:25, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Not a problem - you've been doing good work on those pages and they're much better thanks to you! I'd say that a consistent format at that kind of minor level isn't that important though. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:45, 11 January 2009 (EST)

I agree, no more switching "across the street" with "next to" :D I'll try keeping it to rephrasing stuff so that it's easier to read. --SerCenKing 13:53, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Why...?Edit

I'm just wondering why you re-wrote Arterion's page when I'd already done that one? The template at the top of the page tracks what has been done and what hasn't, and there are categories too. This is going to be a big enough job without duplicating effort. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 02:51, 29 January 2009 (EST)

Well, first of all I added the unique dialogue and a small bit on the AI. I did see the tag, but I thought that they could be still included. However, I do see your point and find myself agreeing with you: this project is so huge that we should divide our tasks. My mistake was to take only a swift glance at the categories. I saw 'Schedule-Unchecked' and automatically, and wrongfully, supposed that it was 'Schedule-Not Written'. I'll keep that in mind next time. On a similar note, how can I take the 'Inventory-Unchecked' category from the page? And how do you edit the ONPCRP tag like you did on the page? Cheers, --SerCenKing 04:18, 29 January 2009 (EST)

Actually the dialogue isn't unique: Mondrar Henim uses the line too ("Gods! It's the Count! Run!") which is why I didn't include it before. I suppose it could still be mentioned since it's just the two of them but it should be made clear it's not unique.

Full details of how to use the template are on the template page itself: see this - hopefully that'll make it clear. I'll put a link to that on the project page at some point. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 04:38, 29 January 2009 (EST)

Great, thanks for that, I'll update the tags on the two pages done. For future reference I'll be working on all of the Necromancer NPCs, as seen here.--SerCenKing 07:16, 29 January 2009 (EST)

Necromancer PageEdit

As to why my edit to the table was reverted: I am unable to find an instance where a regular necromancer carries a black soul gem. If this does exist, it should be added as to where this can occur. And also the maces that necromancers carry are not enchanted, so I also believe that information is incorrect. The main reason for my edit was that I thought the "Other" category was a bit crowded. Please correct/inform me if I am wrong, Caveman 20:44, 29 January 2009 (EST)

The quest-specific necromancers in Meridia's quest may carry BSGs, but no necromancer carries an enchanted mace as far as I can see. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 00:58, 30 January 2009 (EST)

Yep, just checked and no necromancers have any chance of carrying enchanted weapons. I took it off the page, thanks for that, don't know how I missed it. As for the 'Other' category, I personally think that it's fine, but I can see why you tried to change it. However I didn't particularly like the layout: shoes aren't that important for them to be included in the 'Clothing' section and the scrolls are two separate ones. Also, if you take a look at the Bandit page you will see the layout is similar, I'm trying to keep some consistency between them. Hope that clarified it! ;) --SerCenKing 07:21, 30 January 2009 (EST)

ThanksEdit

Hi there! I just wanted to say that I am very impressed by how much you contribute on a regular basis. I am new to this sight but I have already noticed how much you do on everything. Keep up the good work! -- Mage Freak 15:56, 4 February 2009 (EST)Mage Freak

Thanks to you! Actually, yes I've had a good deal of free time lastly and decided to spend some of it here! Looks like someone noticed! --SerCenKing 16:09, 4 February 2009 (EST)

Issues with the user page (not big ones!)Edit

First, the word "standard" in the "Contributions to the Cause" section is spelt incorrectly, and how are skill books, magical items? 173.32.11.67 19:32, 4 February 2009 (EST) Helper Unknown

Thanks, I don't really check on my userpage that frequently...Guess I'll give it more of a glance from now on. In the case of Skill Books, I take your point. What I mean are Skill Books from the seven magic schools (Alchemy, Alteration etc.) and I therefore refer to them as 'magical'. --SerCenKing 02:39, 5 February 2009 (EST)

VandalismEdit

Thank you for reverting the change to the UESPWiki:Common Mistakes‎ page, but you should be careful about using the term "vandalism". Our policy of Assume Good Faith makes it clear that you should assume the best about people's edits. In this case, Brentonbabe did clear the page but asked a question at the same time. It seems likely that the deletion was an accident rather than deliberate so calling it "vandalism" isn't fair. Just something to bear in mind for the future. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:49, 9 February 2009 (EST)

Yeah, I probably rushed to conclusions when I saw the edit summary 'replacing page' and the -7000 words less. I was actually think of moving the question to the related page but wasn't sure whether he really wanted an answer or if it was simply a page blanking. That's also why I only sent a notice to him instead of a warning... Thanks anyway, I do realise that the term vandalism is greatly mis-used, and I'll try to refrain from using it unless necessary. --SerCenKing 07:35, 10 February 2009 (EST)

When UndoingEdit

Please can you make sure that you give a reason when undoing an edit? This beat my own undo but you didn't leave any kind of reason. Since our help pages advise people to check edit summaries if they find out their edit has been removed, it's important that you leave one to explain any alterations. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:22, 21 February 2009 (EST)

Suggestion!Edit

Hi, SerC! The NPC project have been very busy lately, and I have become a master of Sneak in the process. As I'm still having fun doing them, I hope you and Rpeh will keep them coming. One suggestion, though. When I meet totally "anonymous" NPCs on my way (with "anonymous" I mean, they really dont have the most complicated schedules - like the people in Harlun's Watch, where I am now - and various merchants and inn-keepers), would it be an option for me to write their schedules while I'm there and save it into the NPC redesign project? I know, that it should be checked on the CS first, but after doing A LOT of checks, I'm pretty comfortable with the game's mechanics and it would easen my job a great deal, if I could do locations while I'm there. And not to mention making my job a bit more fun. What I suggest is, that I have the liberty to do the more "anonymous" NPCs, and after I have done them in-game, you guys can check them in the CS and edit them all you want. Same system, just in reverse. What do you say? — Unsigned comment by Krusty (talk)

I say great! I think that could work, because in the end, you are getting the schedules in-game, which is kind of like the checking process you have been doing so well, so far. Before we jump to it, though I would value Rpeh's input, since he's the project leader. I'll post a quick note on his talk page. In any case, if this is approved, I'll create a sandbox page like this: {example} User:SerCenKing/ONPCRP Schedules Sandbox. Editing privileges of this sandbox would be given to (as things stand) me, yourself and Rpeh (as well as any other future members). You can add the schedules in here and me and (possibly) Rpeh will take them and rewrite them in the main articles. Good enough? --SerCenKing 12:49, 23 February 2009 (EST)

Cool with me! While we wait, here's what my in-game problems could be - and what I hope you will check out in the CS after I have done a schedule: 1: Its not always clear in-game, if a peron is "eating" or not. Sometimes they start to wander, sometimes they sit down. 2: Trips that take place in certain days - or even those long-distance trips once a month. There's no way I can predict that, and that's why I'll try to stick to anonymous NPCs. I try, as a basic rule, to check every NPCs sundas-schedule as well as rainy days, but if a NPC suddenly decides to go to a chapel on a tirdas, then I really can't tell. I write down inventories as well, but when it comes to NPCs with levelled equipment, I stay away. Other than that (and my grammar), it should be okay. I have already monitered about 12 NPCs in various settlements that I'm ready to write schedules on. And I sure hope, I can rely on you to help me out in the sandbox, if I run into any problems? Krusty 13:59, 24 February 2009 (EST)

Sure! I sent Rpeh the link for this discussion but haven't really seen him on recently. Anyway I think this would work well. As for the eating bit I think that we'll have to rely on CS for that because eating definitely is something that is AIed. That's also why I took off that breakfast note you put on the Carahil page. On a similar note: I guess you've got all of Anvil done; once Thaurron is done I'll be moving to Bravil, just to let you know. Let's wait to see what Rpeh says, til then, all the best --SerCenKing 14:12, 24 February 2009 (EST)

Im doing Thaurron right now, and, apart from Thamriel, he's the last NPC on the list I can do in my current game. All the other are dead or quest-specific characters. Just keep em coming! As far as Thamriel goes, she seems to be the most complicated one yet, so I'll probably spend the better part of tomorrow following her around. Krusty 16:27, 24 February 2009 (EST)

Still waiting - and now officially out of schedules to check. Maybe I should just start to write schedules on the NPCs I have already followed? Anything you can do to speed things up a bit? Krusty 04:30, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I tried something new - I wrote a schedule for Corrick_Northwode and saved it directly to his page, removed the unsatisfying (and incorrect) description. Does this workaround give you anything you can work with? I figured, you could just save it into the proper categories of the ONPCRP - maybe add me as writer and you as "checked by" (not important, though). And then I'll doublecheck any corrections and additional information you might find in the CS. Krusty 09:18, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Yup, I saw you're idea. Since Rpeh wasn't said anything, I would be inclined to doing it this way. I also checked and rewrote it; but you'll have to add your name to the tag: I can't do that! --SerCenKing 14:40, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Added my name to tag - and found him afterwards in the "schedules unchecked"-page of the ONPCRP, which must be right. I had a few problems with the "Permanent Corpses"-line in his script. Can you check and see, if it's in the right place? Other than that, I think I'm good to go! And as long as you check the CS for unexpected behaviour, we should be fine. And on a similar note, how are things in Bravil's Mages Guild? Krusty 15:26, 3 March 2009 (EST)

(stop indent) Yes, I saw your work and I have to say, I'm fine with it. Looks like we found another schedule writer! I'll check the three newer schedules and hopefully get Aryarie's one up shortly. --SerCenKing 12:08, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Good work - I think we can get a lot of schedules nailed, if we keep this up. Btw, I just wrote Sister Phebe Jeanard's schedule, but I can't do the other sister in Gottlesfont Priory - for some reason, she detects me every time I enter the house (like she's a trainer or something) and I gave up on her - for that one, it would be great, if you could look in the CS and write it, because I dont have a clue about what she's doing - except staying in the house? All the best! Krusty 16:59, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Quick questionEdit

As far as you know personally, are there any characters worth robbing for the equipment they carry? I want to roleplay a mugger next time, and I was wondering if there are any especially desirable targets for that... EDIT: And I forgot to sign the comment AGAIN. God, I need to get used to this wiki fast... GenocideHeart 09:21, 2 March 2009 (EST)

Well, usually this is a bit subjective. However, certain individuals have better chances of equipment than others; for example you will have a better chance of finding soul gems on Mages Guild members and of finding gold and gems on counts and countesses. Generally going for guild members and nobility will probably net you well. --SerCenKing 10:13, 2 March 2009 (EST)

Out of curiosity...Edit

Are there any custom and/or NPC-only classes you especially like to play as? Just curious, really... GenocideHeart 10:43, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Well, I first began with a proper Thief character, but now I'm more on Mages, Spellswords and Sorcerers; but that's obvioiusly my style of playing. --SerCenKing 13:53, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Unsigned TagsEdit

When you're adding unsigned tags, please can you include the date? {{unsigned|Whoever|10 March 2009}}. Thanks. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 16:25, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Sure, I've rarely seen it put in so I never really noticed it. I'll bear that in mind. --SerCenKing 16:30, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Multiple EditsEdit

Sorry to bug you again, but I've previously mentioned the multiple edits you're making but you still keep on doing it. When you eventually become a patroller - as I'm sure you will - you'll appreciate how annoying it can be to have to track several sets of changes to the same page, and at the moment it's something that crops up more with you than with most other editors.

We all make mistakes and all miss things. We also, when making big edits, want to make sure we don't lose anything. Those are cases when consecutive edits are okay, but when there are multiple consecutive small edits to the same article (or [1] [2] [3] [4] for one other example)... it can be difficult to spot what has changed and is distracting when trying to read the Recent Changes page.

If you could try to reduce the number of consecutive edits you make, I'd be very grateful. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 18:11, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, sorry 'bout that... Yesterday evening even Mozilla keeled over and died on me ;). My connection would go down every two minutes and when I tried to re-open the previous session I got a URL Error. So now I've finally decided to get a text-editor and multiple edits shouldn't be a problem anymore. --SerCenKing 11:31, 11 March 2009 (EDT)

Me AgainEdit

I'm going to ask that you slow down a little. The main reason I voted to Oppose in your recent patroller nomination was that you're a bit unfamiliar with site content, which means you're a bit too quick to revert edits that turn out to be fine.

There are two edits that prompted me to post this.

First, this. In this case, the wiki was wrong: the Bands of the Chosen do indeed confer a 50% Weakness to Fire. If you look at the relevant logs, the edit adding the fact was made at 16:52 (GMT), I patrolled it at 16:55, but then you reverted it at 16:57. Before patrolling it, I had actually done a quick check in the CS to make sure that my memory wasn't wrong and patrolled the edit to confirm that it was correct. With factual edits like this one, it's always worth checking either in-game or in the CS to make sure you're right before committing yourself one way or the other. I've made mistakes like this myself in the past, and found that checking is the only way to be sure.

Second, this. A quick look at almost any other quest description page would show that we have plenty of links: it's place descriptions that avoid them.

This brings me back to my request that you slow down. The wiki isn't a competition. It's not about who has the most edits or who patrols most changes. We're striving to create the best resource we can, and that sometimes means spending hours on nailing down one little fact. I'm not saying that you have to be perfect to become a patroller, because Zenithar knows I'm far, far from perfect! I am saying that while you're not familiar with the content of the site you should take a little more time to be as good as you can.

I hope you realise that this is trying to be constructive criticism. You're doing a lot of good work and the site is much better because of it. I'd hate to think that the way I keep picking up on minor points is going to put you off. The trouble is that most of what you do is good and the few bad things stand out so much more. Please keep up the good work. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 17:52, 19 March 2009 (EDT)

To follow up a little on rpeh's points: I agree that you should slow down a little. You appear over-zealous in editing, and it seems that you're too eager to "fix" edits... there's nothing wrong with leaving an edit to someone else who has the time to check it thoroughly, or even leaving it till you have time later. And to reiterate rpeh's comments, this is constructive criticism... just slow down a little, and your edits will be darn-near perfect! --GuildKnight^Talk2me 18:13, 19 March 2009 (EDT)

thanks and no problem!Edit

Hey, thanks for the welcome! And there's no need at all for you to apologize, especially since that previous edit (the one you reverted) wasn't even mine--I was just browsing the Recent Changes and I thought, "hm, I think that was correct after all" so I changed it back. Aliste 18:39, 19 March 2009 (EDT)

Oh right... I saw that the first edit was made by an anon IP and I thought it was yours. In any case, I'm glad that all's good. I also wanted to point out that there is a simpler way to undo edits: when looking a the difference between two changes (like here) just click the '(undo)' button on the top right hand side next to '(edit)'. This will revert the changes and give the standard revert Edit Summary: 'Undo Revision 4156...ect'. --SerCenKing 03:38, 20 March 2009 (EDT)

Actually, I didn't want to revert exactly to what the previous version was, because it wasn't worded in the standard fashion ("Weakness to fire by" instead of "Weakness to Fire"). Thanks for the tip about the undo button, though; I hadn't noticed that before and was wondering where that revision number came from! Aliste 13:52, 20 March 2009 (EDT)

wellEdit

i would become your apprentice but i asked someone already (they havent replied yet) and also i need someone who can teach me the ropes and is good with morrowind because thats the only elder scrolls game i have just for note i have the game of the year addition Gohog3 20:19, 21 March 2009 (EDT)gohog3

Well, I'm honoured by your request! ;) I saw your post on Lurlock's talk page and I would wait at least a week to allow him to have time to answer, also considering that his last contribution was on 11th February. In case he doesn't, although I can't really mentor you because I am still not a Mentor, I would be very happy to show you round the wiki, even though my main strength lies in Oblivion. If you are looking for someone skilled in Morrowind I would suggest either Game Lord or Timenn --SerCenKing 06:14, 22 March 2009 (EDT)

Pointless EditsEdit

Could you please stop adding NewLeft tags like this one and this? There's no point in trying to improve the formatting of what is, after all, a stub page. At the moment it's just cluttering up Recent Changes. The formatting will be done when the page is written. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:02, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

The reason for them is that I can't seem to get any NPCs in Categories if I don't edit their pages, and the easiest way to do that seemed to be adding newlefts. I'm sure there's a simpler way to get them to show on the page, and I was about to post a comment on your talk page concerning it... Any ideas? --SerCenKing 13:03, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

You should be able to use a null edit. Just load the page, click edit and then click save without making any changes. That usually causes the wiki to do an update. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:14, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

Right, so basically just a dummy edit... But the edit won't show up on the History will it? --SerCenKing 13:16, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

Nope. That's the beauty. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:24, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

Alternatively, you could just wait a day and let the wiki catch up with the requests. The job queue (listed here, currently at 1000+, but normally at 1) is the list of things that the wiki knows it needs to do -- things such as add pages to newly created categories. So that the rest of the site remains functional while doing such low-priority requests, the wiki processes the job queue relatively slowly (specifically, 1 job is done for every 100 pages on the site that are viewed). I don't think there's any real reason to rush getting these categories added -- really all that you're doing is increasing both your workload and the site's workload. --Nephele^Talk 13:28, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

And AgainEdit

There's no need to mark a page with a NeedsImage tag saying that its current image needs to be replaced AND mark the image for fixing (as you did here and here). If the image is going to be replaced, it doesn't need fixing. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:06, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

Ooops... Don't I feel like a dumbass... --SerCenKing 14:13, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

Small RequestEdit

I'd just like to politely ask you not to edit other peoples' posts on my talk page, even if it's cleaning it up. Chunk of Ham 15:59, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

I am of course aware of site policies but small edits such as those I don't think are even important enough to be mentioned. If you are so inclined, you can put the smiley back into position, but leave the unsigned tag, as that is always useful. --SerCenKing 16:03, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

I'm not referring to site policy, I'm just asking, as a personal favor, to leave my pages alone.

Chunk of Ham 21:43, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

Welcoming meEdit

Do you automaticaly generate these welcoming messages? I find it rather pathetic that you don't send a message when I first register, but once I make my first contribution while logged in (I've been doing many contributions without logging in), just two minutes later, I get a welcoming message. Is this really your full-time job, to wait for someone to make an edit, and then welcome them? Dstebbins 18:04, 28 March 2009 (EDT)

The messages are already written, and are simply added to a user talk page through a link at UESPWiki:Messages. The reason why you were welcomed now instead of when you created the account is that the wiki keeps track of contributions...So until you make an edit, no-one knows you're there. I find your sarcasm quite "pathetic", on the other hand. Welcoming users is something I do when patrolling Recent Changes and when I see a new user editing. By welcoming them we are saying "We know you're there.. Thanks for editing". Welcoming new editors is also a good way to prompt them to make more contributions. So instead of trying to be funny (and miserably failing, I might add) it would be nice to show appreciation to someone that has taken the time to welcome you. --SerCenKing 18:14, 28 March 2009 (EDT)

I am well aware of Quest ItemsEdit

SerCen I am well aware of the quest versions of the Bloodworm Helm and Necromancer's Amulet that are zero weight and cannot be discarded. However I was adding those comments to the Xbox 360 players who did not have access to your Tes4Mod:Unofficial Oblivion Patch that added the non-quest items to the Arch Mage's desk thus I went about trying to find a way to get them for the console version, and I found it. I'm sorry if my comment was ill formed. As for my comment on Alawen's page I was just noting a problem that I ran into on several characters and what I did to get around it which, I thought, was what this site wanted if I am mistaken correct me. Chronic 11:17, 29 March 2009 (EDT)

In that case I'm sorry, but your edits were really difficult to understand. I would therefore see no problem in you adding the information back on; but this time could you consider cleaning it up a bit? For example:

• Put the info in the Notes sections and clearly state that it is a work-around to get the items after the quest.
• It's better if you say 'Non-PC' or 'Console' users rather than just Xbox users.
• Make it clear that the items will respawn inside the bodies of Caranya and Irlav Jarol after the related quest and that their bodies will remain there for a certain amount of time.
• Also include the Shivering Risen Flesh power: the Staff of Worms can be confusing in that you need the items to get to the final Mages Guild quest.

If you follow these tips and a comprehensible grammar, I don't see why the info shouldn't be on the pages. --SerCenKing 11:43, 29 March 2009 (EDT)

Vampire Cure questionEdit

The question is about the Oblivion:Vampire_Cure#PS3_GotY_Vampirism_Cure_Notes: the editor obviously used the "European Players" suggestion and now is having subsequent problems caused by that suggestion. If the question is not on the Vampire Cure talk page, then it's impossible to even figure out what the context of the question is, and then it just becomes a mystery as to why someone would even choose to change the game language. Furthermore, the editor posted the question on the vampire cure talk page, so in the absence of a compelling reason why the question belongs elsewhere it should be left there so that the original editor has some chance of finding the question and any response. Moving the question without even leaving a link on the original talk page is extremely unhelpful -- you might as well just delete the question completely at that point, because any answers are pretty likely to help nobody. --Nephele^Talk 14:47, 30 March 2009 (EDT)

Well, in that case I see why it should be left where it is. My apologises, I didn't see the "European Players" suggestion in Notes and I therefore thought that he was simply asking a question about the game in general, which explains my moving it Oblivion talk:Oblivion. But I don't think I would exaggerate by saying that it was quite obscure and difficult to understand that it was referring to that suggestion. That said, I'll revert my edits. --SerCenKing 14:52, 30 March 2009 (EDT)

A few thingsEdit

Hi there! As you might have noticed, I'm doing the residents of Brina Cross Inn these days, and happend to come across a couple of undercover Battle Mages up there (as well as a Rogue Mage). Since the mages are your "speciality", I wondered if you could check the CS on their magical abilities and add them to their pages as I go along? I've only done Arielle Jurard so far, but I think it could be useful to add her magic to a somewhat difficult page.

And you really should log on to the IRC whenever you're online. It's a good way to get to know one another, and it would be great to be able to ask you quick questions right away. All the best! Krusty 05:24, 31 March 2009 (EDT)

Yep, no problem. Spells and magic are quite tricky to do in-game. As per the IRC... yeah, I've been thinking of joining for a few weeks...I'll try to be there from now on. --SerCenKing 05:42, 31 March 2009 (EDT)

Oops, just saw on your Sandbox page, that I accidentally "stole" a Mage you had planned to do (Arielle Jurard) - I hope, it's okay! And if you were on the IRC right now I would write the following warning; There's something VERY wrong with the Cheydinhal Mages Guild, but only at 5pm; Eilonwy freezes up somewhere inside the Guild and never leaves for Riverview. Her husband now lies sleeping in the guild at 6pm, even though I saw him leave at 5pm the day before. Uurwen freezes at 5pm, and so does Deetsan. They all "un-freeze" when they have their next cue. I'll keep on double-checking on Eilonwy (she was the one I was following in the first place), but you might wanna pop in the game and check out the Guild at 5pm yourself - and make the nessecary bug-notes if there is any. Krusty 06:43, 31 March 2009 (EDT)

CastlesEdit

The reason why I removed "Forts" is that there are none on Stirk. The reason I put Castles is to prevent somebody else to place Fort Stirk in that listing again. --Gez 17:26, 10 April 2009 (EDT)

I know that there aren't any Forts on Stirk; that sections was there to be filled with Hammerfell Forts. Castles in Oblivion:Places are not together with 'Ayleid Ruins' or 'Caves' but in the list with 'Bodies of Water'. I still prefer the other version but if both you (Gez) and Rpeh prefer this one, I will accept it. --SerCenKing ^Talk 06:58, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

It can always be changed back to be more like Oblivion later, once there is Hammerfell content... For now, there just isn't as much content as there is for Oblivion, so the listing can be different. --Gez 07:30, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

Sounds reasonable. Fine with me. --SerCenKing ^Talk 07:32, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

I agree. I'd rather not start creating sections for what might be coming up in Hammerfell. Let's cross those bridges when we come to them. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 08:04, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

Double Rephrasing!Edit

I should have clarified that this is upon stealing the Honorblade of Chorrol back after the quest is done. Feel free to do the final rephrasing! :P

--Stephanie 09:07, 11 April 2009 (EDT)Stephanie

Tamriel Rebuilt BooksEdit

Before doing too much on the Books page, take a look at Oblivion:Books. There's a template that we will eventually be able to use that will give a consistent appearance. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 10:38, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, I took a look at it before doing the TR4 page. I didn't love it so I used the stock table I'd done at Southern Books and changed 'desc' with 'loc'. Now at least they look better ;) Anyway, I'll just add the locations now, since that is also present in the Oblivion template. Might I suggest we add cost as well? --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:44, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

Okay. Ignoring an existing template, and changing a page away from using a template because you don't like it is really not the way to go. There's a big difference between a list of books in a store, and a list for a game/mod. In a store, you don't need a location because you're already there. The list of books on a game page should be more general - and that's why we have a template to cover it. Including the cost might be a useful change, but you should discuss things first. In any case, given the new functions Nephele is adding to the site, we will certainly want to use templates to include the same data in multiple places to avoid mistakes. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 10:52, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

My comment was probably ill-phrased: what I meant is that I thought that the way that the page was previously done wasn't very good and I thought a table would look more structured. The main reason why I didn't use the existing table is that it heavily used Book descs, which we don't have yet. That's why I opted for a different version, knowing full-well that it would only be temporary, until the remaining info would be filled in. I didn't mean to appear vain or childish and I certainly agree that we should use the same template once we've got all of the required info up and running. --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:31, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

HelpEdit

Hey, I would like to help out with the NPC or Places Redesign project, I was guided to you. I know quite a lot about Oblivion and was just wondering if there is anything I can do to help out. If you just give me like a region of people or places to do I'll get on with it ;) - KindredPOKER 19:15, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

Ok, for places the main stuff that needs doing is In-game verification. This you can do both on PC or console. For the NPC project: if you're on PC you can write schedules and if you're on console you can check them. If you're on console, I'd recommend a chat with Krusty. For the Places project, I'm currently doing Ayleid Ruins and help would be great, check out my sandbox to see which are missing. For the NPCs, choose whatever NPCs you like! --SerCenKing ^Talk 03:46, 12 April 2009 (EDT)

Going to start with the Ayleid Ruins in a minute, do you have MSN so I can ask you some general questions, its easier there xD. My email is just my user name on here @hotmail.com - Thanks :) - KindredPOKER 16:21, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

Actually, the UESP has its own chatroom. I'm usually on there when I'm on the wiki. My nick is the same as my user name. Follow the instructions on the link and you should be able to log in. Just to know when we'll both be on... What time zone are you? I'm GMT. --SerCenKing ^Talk 04:22, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

hey there need some tips and helpEdit

hey dude can you teach me some stuff about the wiki and tell me how to make those awesome boxes you have thta say this user is <insert text> — Unsigned comment by Konstantin VIII (talk) on 3 May 2009

Sure! But first remember these points: use comprehensible grammar, use correct spelling and sign you post by clicking the 'four tidles' button in the bar on top of the page; it's the second from the left right. In regards to the 'boxes', give UESPWiki:Userboxes a read and see for yourself. If you are having any problems, don't hesitate to answer. --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:51, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

Just to clarify, the signature button is actually the second from the right in the bar above the edit window. --GuildKnight^Talk2me 19:46, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

Image namesEdit

When there is nothing wrong with an image name (e.g., Image:OB-NPC-Dairihill.jpg), any new versions of the image should be uploaded using that existing name instead of uploaded images to a different name (e.g., Image:OB-npc-Dairihill.jpg) which then forces unnecessary edits to rename the image links and forces unnecessary deletions of existing images. See the discussion at Help talk:Images#Recommended Image Names for more details. Accordingly, I'm going to go through and update your proposed deletions. --Nephele^Talk 11:30, 4 May 2009 (EDT)

I understand the way that you want to go about this, I agree with it and I am more than willing to do it this way in the future. However, all that you've done now by changing the proposed deletions to fix images has been to prompt me to do another set of un-necessary edits to re-upload the images, to change the fix image to proposed deletion and to change the name of the image in the NPC summaries. Why can't we simply delete the old images, which would require a single edit, that I've already replaced instead of going through the process again? --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:31, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

• Because deleting an image is permanent -- all old versions of the image, all history, and all records of who made contributions are lost. Unlike standard page deletions, it can't later be undone, by anyone. I would prefer to not lose quality images because of minor issues regarding image names.
• When the site gets upgraded to the current version of the mediawiki software, image renaming will at last become possible. It would be nice to minimize the number of images that are permanently lost while we wait for the next upgrade.
• The above-mentioned discussion is pretty clear about what should be done in this situation: If an image is mistakenly uploaded to a new name ... then the editor should be asked to re-upload the image with the more appropriate name. One component of a compromise agreement can't be thrown out without invalidating the entire agreement. So we are then back to square one, with no guidelines on when or even whether image renaming is acceptable, and need to restart the entire discussion. At which point, I would strongly advocate a moratorium on all image renaming until our mediawiki software is upgraded -- and would want to remove the proposed deletion tags from nearly all images.

In other words, to me the choice isn't between re-upload a dozen images or re-upload no images. Rather, I think the preferable options are re-upload a dozen images or re-upload all images. But really I think it's best to delay re-opening the whole issue until something has actually changed the situation, i.e., until mediawiki is upgraded. In the meantime, I'd rather just stick to the existing guidelines. --Nephele^Talk 13:43, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

Alright, that makes sense. I just wan't to understand a bit better why, and you've explained it well enough. I'll get on with re-uploading the images and improving some I think weren't too good. I really hope we get this new mediawiki upgrade fast: sounds like we can have so much more flexibility with images if we are finally able to rename them. --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:49, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

Thanks :) --Nephele^Talk 13:55, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

Thanks :DEdit

Thanks for the welcome :) I've got experience with editing and using wiki-markup, as I've been editing Wikipedia for 2 years now.  :) I just started playing Oblivion about 4-5 days ago, and so far, I have not been able to put it down. It is just such an intriguing game with such an overwhelming amount of content that I still cannot wrap my head around it.

In addition to this, I have some questions for you (sorry if they are random, but then again, I always have questions that need answers :D)

• Have you ever played the Lost Paladins of the Divines mod?
  • If you have, can you make the armor re-appear in the coffin in that one Ayleid Ruin?
• Say a Level 1 character were to use the console to get a full suit of Daedric Armor and a Daedric Longsword, would this player still have a tough time on dungeons that he goes through, or will they be like a cakewalk because of the fact that you have the highest possible level of armor? In addition to this, the Heaven's Wrath armor set from the Lost Paladins of the Divine mod gives a similar suit of armor (statistic wise) to Daedric. Will this make the game too easy if I acquired it through the use of a cheat or if I got it at a very low level (I got it at Level 9, when the creator suggested you be Level 20 or higher in order to get it).
• Do you think that it would actually be possible for a player to collect and display EVERY SINGLE Non-Random Loot (including the Welkynd and Varla Stones) in their houses, or do you think that that would be a little too over-achieving for a 100% completion stat?
• If I am Level 9, should I be wearing armor with an armor rating of 76? 39?
• I am very heavily into adding new mods to my version of Oblivion, however, I've encountered problems where more than one of the mods that I want to use have the same name of folder for the "textures" and "meshes" (folder is named the same, and therefore, I would have to delete the meshes/textures on one of the plugins' items added while adding the other. Would it be possible to create one central texture folder with one folder for each of the textures, yet several DIFFERENT mods' textures/meshes to be in the same named folder in the Meshes/Textures folder?
• Can you recommend me any great mods to add besides the following:
  • Ring of Console
  • All 9 official-plugins
  • Lost Knights of the Divine
  • Heaven's Fury Armor sets
  • The Lost Spire

• Any other good ones besides those (that adds any of the following (and at LEAST adds new suits of Heavy Armor/good weapons?} Places, quests, things to fight, loot to find?
• My game seems to crash sometimes (and sometimes in random menus or parts of the game. It's crashed when I have tried to load a Save file before (now deleted), its' crashed when I tried to get on and off a horse and when I load a new area, and its' crashed when I've looked at the World Map. I only get maybe 1 crash every other day or so. Is this normal?

Thanks for all the help and answers if you do answer all of these questions :D Razorflame 12:11, 7 May 2009 (EDT)

No problem at all, I find welcoming new users a vital part of buidling a wiki-community. Now I'll try to answer your questions!

• Unfortuantely, no.
• Definitely. Equiping that kind of armor and using that kind of weapons at level 1 would make the game lose all of its flavour: it would be like being in God Mode.
• Actually, that wouldn't be a bad idea. I'm somewhat of an Ayleid collector myself and do have a large collection of Varla and Welkynd as well as Statues and Elven weapons and armor.
• Considering the fact that Dwarven Armor is the best for rating you can get at level 9 and it has 50 with Heavy Armor maxed out, you should really be aiming for the second figure to have a balanced game-play.
• Yes, that's actually how you should structure your 'Meshes'/'Textures' folders. Create a simple 'Meshes' folder and dump in all of the various meshes that your mod is adding.
• This is just my opinion, but I would recommend playing Oblivion throughout before adding any mods. This way you get a real feel of the vanilla world and can judge later whether some mods are unbalanced or not. I'm not very much into the 'new weapons/armor' field, since I find most of those mods unbalanced. Two mods that are definitely in my top five are Ruined Tail's Tale and Stirk. They add new quests, places, NPCs and Tamriel Rebuilt is going to evolve into something much bigger once Hammerfell is created.
• Can be, but usually caused either by contrasting mods or by an incorrectly-installed one

Hope that was useful and that I've answered all of your questions! --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:37, 7 May 2009 (EDT)

Alright, thanks. I did get the Heaven's Wrath Armor set, which has an armor rating of 76 or 79 I believe. I did use a "killall" console cheat on the final area "Sidasesil", and everything that I've done before then was actually done without any console cheats. I have already gotten the feel for the vanilla world, and since I'm starting to complete more and more of the vanilla world without cheating or getting other armor sets with similar stats to Daedric...I've actually started finding Elvish weapons now, as well as enchanted Dwarven armor (which I believe I started getting at Level 8, so I definitely think that I've gotten the hang of it so far. I'm so impatient sometimes when it comes to the cooler looking armor (although Dwarven armor does look pretty cool :D, I've been stockpiling Dwarven armor pieces in my castle that I got called Battlehorn Castle). I've also been stockpiling stuff like Spell Tomes and Soul Gems, as well as Welkynd and Varla Stones, and I've completed some of the harder quests, like Umaril the Unfeathered WITHOUT anyone dying (I thought it would take me more attempts to do it, but I managed to do it with only a single reload :D).

I really do like collecting items as well as completing games as much as possible, so I definitely think that I will be trying to collect a ton of items. So far in my collection of items, I have:

• Full Dwarven Armor set minus the Shield and a weapon
• Three of the "Glass Replica Armor" pieces (the shield, the cuirass, and the gauntlets (and yes, I know that their health sucks (I think their health is at 1 or something D:)))
• 54 Welkynd Stones
• 17 Varla Stones
• 4 Flawless Pearls
• 2 Flawless Topazes
• 1 Flawless Ruby
• 2 Flawless Sapphires
• 2 Flawless Diamonds
• A bunch of lesser gems (at least 1 of each level below Flawless)
• Elemental Bolt Spell Tome
• Candlelight Spell Tome
• Absorb Strength Spell Tome
• Several skill books
• Full Crusader's Relics Armor set, with both the Sword of the Crusader and the Mace of the Crusader (I like the Longsword more, so I keep the Mace on the stand).
• Base Ring of Nighteye. Yes, believe it or not, I got this when I was Level 3 and I was like HOLY SHIT! because I was using Fin Gleam before then to help me in those dungeons where it is too damn hard to see ANYTHING, let alone the chests and items on the ground).
• Ring of Destruction (First Non-Random Loot)
• Fin Gleam (My Second Non-Random Loot)
• A lot of other rubbish, like 158 Lockpicks (Thanks to the guy who lets you into the Thieves Guild :D (5 gold for a lockpick is like child's play for me right now now that I'm averaging roughly 750-3,000 gold per dungeon run :D) and other crap that I have use to level other skills, like 2 Repair Hammers (with another couple hundred (yes, hundred) sitting at my Battlehorn Castle), a whole slew of keys (probably a dozen by now), a ton of quest-related notes in my inventory, like the deed to Frostcrag and stuff like that that I want to keep for historical purposes (because they don't have much weight assosiated with them).
• A Cuirass of Battle (Dwarven Cuirass enchanted that I got off a Maurauder outside of Battlehorn Castle)
• A Longsword of Jinxing that I got in my most recent vampire dungeon run (I've already been cured of vampirism, so I'm safe from becoming a vampire again, right? (and even if I'm not, I got Vile Lair's Font of Renewal to heal me again)
• A shortsword and Claymore of Scorch or Flame (whatever the Dwarven Claymore and Shortsword are).

Yep, that's pretty much what I've gotten in terms of items in the 20-some hours I've played Oblivion. Amazingly, I haven't done much of the Main Quest yet. I've done through the Siege of Kvatch (already gone through the Gate and destroyed it), but I have not gone back to lift the siege yet.

The Crusader's Relics that I have currently have the same stats as Dwarven Armor, so instead of wearing the dwarven armor, which actually looks pretty cool, I'm wearing the Crusader Relics, because they look cool and have some awesome enchantments and abilities, and because they don't cost me anything to repair or recharge, unlike other swords and armor. I'll probably keep the Crusader Relics while I continue hunting for new items, and as the newer versions of armor become available, I'll try to get a full set.

Currently, I'm planning on getting a full set of all of the following armors:

• Steel
• Dwarven
• Orcish (if I like it, not sure, because I've never seen an Orcish piece of armor yet)
• Ebony
• Daedric (my favorite armor in the game, not because of their stats as the best armor in the game, but because they are the coolest looking armor that you can get in the game without any of the Official Plug-ins or any mods installed into your copy of Oblivion).
• Elvish (If I like how they look)
• Mithril (If I like how they look)
• Glass
• All Non-Random Loot
• All Ninroot
• All Welkynd Stones
• All Varla Stones
• All Artifacts
• At least one of every indregient in the game into my house

and other stuff.

And a few more questions for you:

• If you lose any piece of the Sir Amelion Brunsorf armor or the sword, will they reappear in Amelion's Tomb, or will I have to console them in (by lost, I don't mean dropped and then glitched through the floor or something like that, I mean either sold to merchants or dropped on the floor in someplace that I can't remember the name to, or where it is, which I've done for a few items in the game)?
• Which items are worth picking up in runs of dungeons, other than: Welkynd Stones, Varla Stones, Ayleid Statues, enchanted armor, items, accessories, or weapons, and gold/Lockpicks?
• Is it worth picking up stuff like Dwarven Cuirasses (unenchanted) if I can only hold maybe 80-100 weight with all my armor and weapon on (used to only be 45-50 free weight)?
• Any other tips you can give me to help me (even though I think I got the hang of the game so far?)

Thanks for reading yet another long post, Razorflame 15:30, 7 May 2009 (EDT)

And a few more replies:

• I don't think so. If you sell it to a merchant it should be lost forever and if you leave it somewhere it should stay put.
• For both of the other two question see Oblivion:Making Money: a very good article with tips on what to take out of dungeon to get the most cash. --SerCenKing ^Talk 05:19, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

Hmmm....I noticed that on the Oblivion:Making Money page, it said nothing about enchanted items. As a rule of thumb, I've just been picking up the enchanted items that are worth the most amount of gold and keeping them in my inventory, no matter what kinds of items they are. I've noticed that jewelry, such as this Amulet of Portection that I got from a dungeon when I was Level 6 (Worth a whopping 8,726!!! gold!) is worth a lot more than other items...anyways, thanks for the help, and sorry if I overposted information to you :) Hope you enjoyed reading it :) Razorflame 14:20, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

CookieEdit

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: You know you deserve it! You've just completed your big Mages Guild-project for the OBNPCRP! You've done an excellent job, and I'll look forward to read (and check) even more pages from your hand in the future! All the best and keep it up! Krusty 14:52, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

GreetingsEdit

Hi SerCenKing, thanks for the welcome. I gather that you noticed the edits I made to the discussion page for the Amulet of Kings in the lore section. Sorry that I edited it too much, there were spelling mistakes and I found other stuff that I wanted to say. I'll try to check my work first before saving it from now on.

Would you be able to help me on the issue of editing the lore page for the Amulet of Kings? I believe some of the information is only speculation or is made up. No sources have been linked to for the statements I'm talking about, although I know the source of one of the things that I think is only speculation(I linked to it on the discussion page).

However it seems like there is a problematic history surrounding this page and users that have edited it, and I don't want to open a can of worms... Is there any admin in charge of the lore section, or anyone else I should discuss this with first? (sorry forgot to sign) Jager 06:30, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

Well, I've looked at the page and I'm with you on this one. See my edit here. In any case, I don't actually know if any of our admins are specifically good with lore. So either bring it up at the Community Portal or contact a user in this category. --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:53, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

Thanks for your help. An admin joined the discussion on the Amulet of Kings lore section discussion page, and I've continued it there for now. Jager 06:31, 11 May 2009 (EDT)

Mods?Edit

Hi there. Can you tell me if I can use the Construction Set to make a mod? I'm thinking about making Nirnroots much more common in the game (by placing them in various places including some very hard to find ones (including some underwater :D, and I am wondering if it would be at all possible to use the Construction Set to make the mod. If you don't know, that is fine. Thanks for the help if you do know, Razorflame 11:04, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

Yes, the CS is the only way to create mods, which is why they are only limited to PC users. For help on modding see this guide. --SerCenKing ^Talk 11:14, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

Thanks for the link to the guide. After reading the first section of the guide, it is now looking to be like it would be pretty easy to add Nirnroots to the game :D. I especially liked seeing those huge Nirnroots :D, so I was thinking about making a mod to add a lot more Nirnroots into the game. I would add them to places where they would be hard to find, such as on the inside of certain places, and also underwater :D. Sounds like a pretty primitive mod, but I think that it will add much more "treasure hunting" to the game, as if you want to complete the mod 100%, you have to find all of the new Nirnroots, which can be quite a hassle, because I was going to add quite a few more Nirnroots to the game.

Have you noticed how you find a good portion of the Nirnroots next to water or close to water in vanilla Oblivion? For instance, I walked around the town of Skingrad (all the way around the town), and since there is a good amount of water surrounding the town, I found nine Nirnroots around the outskirts of the town. Do you think that this was intentional? Razorflame 11:36, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

First of all, nice idea for a mod! Sounds a bit like a Morrowind ingredient-scourging quest. The place near Skingrad is called Shadeleaf Copse. It has the highest concetration of Nirnroots and yes, I believe it is intentional: it is mentioned by Sinderion as a good place to start and it will give you a good idea of where to look for Nirnroots in the future. --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:17, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

I wasn't actually going to make it a quest, because making a quest mod is much more difficult than just a plain "adding tons of objects to the quest" mod. I might if I can be bothered to do so, but after reading through the tutorials on that site you gave me, it turns out that it would be a much bigger hassle than it would be worth. I was not very impressed by the amount of Nirnroots in the game, and 306 Nirnroots in the game, to me, is far too few for a world the size of Oblivion's. There are many, many, many good spots that I've found and noted to add a Nirnroot to, so that they are not always clumped together by the waters' edge or near the water. For example, near Fort Farragut (on the backside of the fort), if you climb up onto the fort and move around to the backside of the fort, you'll find a rock that juts out of the hillside that can only be accessed if you have 60+ Acrobatics. I was thinking about placing a Nirnroot on this rock, because of the fact that it is both out of the way, and that it requires a skill in order to get to. Another place that I was thinking about putting a Nirnroot was right on top of the boss chest in Sancre Tor that you have to have insane Acrobatics to get up to. You know, stuff like that.

As for the Ingredient hunting quest in Morrowind, I did not even know that they already made a quest for hunting alchemical ingredients because I've never played Morrowind before. Thanks for the praise, too. Another idea that I had for the mod would be to create an "Oblivion Plain" version of the Nirnroot, that would either be called the Obroot or the Evil Nirnroot and would be a reddish-black version of the Nirnroot. It would be scattered throughout the Oblivion Gate worlds. These ingredients, in my mind, could be used along with normal Nirnroots, to make a potion that could allow you to go to a random Oblivion World and continue to gain Sigil Stones, even after you've closed all of the gates. I would have to ask someone who is good with making new items for mods because that would be WAY too much of a hassle for me. I like things that are nice and easy to do.

My main motivation for the mod would be to make the Nirnroot hunt much longer and more tedious, because that is how I am by nature. I plan to increase the number of Nirnroots in the game up from its' current 306 roots to more than 1,600. You will have to look EVERYWHERE for the new roots, because they will show up EVERYWHERE, including in some spots that are very hard to find. The first version of the mod will add all of the exterior Nirnroots to the game (currently, the roots that I would add to the outside number over 1,000), and then the second version of the mod will add more than 100 Nirnroots to the interiors of the game. I am not sure if I can add them to any dungeons in the game because they restock the loot, but since the game has Non-Random Loot, then maybe it is possible to add NRL to dungeons like Forts and the such.

Another idea that I had for a mod was to make a use for the shovel. You can equip shovels and then by attacking with it when you are not near any enemies, you can use them to dig in any spot that is not covered by rock (mainly in dry ground) to unearth new treasures. I am not sure if it would be possible to "bury" items in the ground, but if it is, that would be my third project. Another idea that I have for a project would be to add a quest to the game in which you have to go treasure hunting for metal balls. There would be many different kinds of balls, including Copper, Iron, Steel, Bronze, Silver, Gold, Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald, Topaz, Diamond, Dwarven, Orcish, Ebony, Daedric, Mithril, Elven, and Glass balls, and for every one that you collect, you can ask a "figurine" maker to model them into a figurine for you to display around your house. You can even combined them to make a multi-faceted figurine. Since this would require a large number of new textures, I would need someone to make these textures for me while I do the coding for them.

These are just some of my ideas, but I really think that they will be great once released. Cheers, Razorflame 13:28, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

Also, when you said Shadeleaf Copse, that wasn't what I meant. Actually, it was Bravil. I found 9 Nirnroots all around just outside the City Gates to Bravil. They were within 100-1,000 feet of the city walls and they were almost all located near a source of water. What I meant was, was it intentional that they placed a majority of the Nirnroots near a source of water, because that is where I have found most of my Nirnroots. Cheers, Razorflame 13:32, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

Yes, it's intentional. Nirnroot can only thrive when water is in close proximity. Sinderion will tell you all about it and besides that he will give you a missive with loads of information. Or you can read the Nirnroot article where it states that Nirnroot can only be found in wet places, or sometimes in people's homes. I hope nobody minds that I edited here! Wolok gro-Barok 14:11, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

Shivering Isles userbox?Edit

I remember seeing a Shivering Isles userbox somewhere. Can you direct me to the page, please? I just got the Shivering Isles expansion yesterday, and I love it :) Adds much more interesting content. Already have full Perfect Madness with the Helm, Shield, Cuirass, Gauntlets, and Boots all enchanted (enchanted both Helm and Boots AFTER I made them)...I also have the Longsword as well, which I enchanted with a Sigil Stone to make it add 25 Shock Damage as an effect :) Cheers, Razorflame 15:06, 14 May 2009 (EDT)

See UESPWiki:Userboxes --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:07, 14 May 2009 (EDT)

Cheers, and thanks, Razorflame 22:08, 15 May 2009 (EDT)

Thanks for the warm welcome!Edit

Thank you, SerC! It is a pleasure, when you just started the user page and immediately recieve welcome from a uesp oldfag (=. I just started to explore TES: Arena (and also planning to write a remake), so i wanna be helpful in this way. Who is in charge of Arena here? (= I definitely need an overseer. Also I played Morrowind for many hours and know quite much about it, maybe i could be helpful with it too. With best regards, --Sindikat 00:33, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

I am afraid that Arena has fallen a bit into decay, and any help you could give would therefore be immensly appreciated. I am also afraid that there is no-one really 'in charge' of the Arena section. Try looking in this category. My favour rests with Gez, Magnus, PLRDLF or Timmeh. Hope to see you contributing shortly! --SerCenKing ^Talk 02:41, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

Replying to comments on Discussion Pages?Edit

I checked out the Getting Started Page but I can't find info on that. How do I "reply" to comments on the Discussion Pages? Do I do this by Editing and then adding my comment? — Unsigned comment by Diadu (talk) on 21 May 2009

Ok, let's take this very discussion and my reply as an example. First, I scrolled down to the Section where your comment was posted; in this case 'Replying to comments on Discussion Pages?'. I then clicked the '[edit]' button to the right of the title. This opens up the page to edit, but only the Section you chose. You can see this in the top left corner where it says: 'Editing User talk:SerCenKing (section). Remember to indent your reply. For example, since my comment was the second in this conversation, I added one ' : ' . By placing it in front of your text you will indent it. To further indent, just keep on adding semi-colons. After you have finished writing your comment, remember to sign it by using the '--~~~~' button in the top left-hand side. Click 'Show Preview' to check you have made no mistakes and then just hit 'Save Page'. --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:15, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

Ah okay, I got it. I thought that, maybe, I had to do it like this, but I'm still new to this and replying like that just seemed a bit unusual to me. Thanks for the help. Diadu 14:34, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

No problem; always happy to help. --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:27, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

CookieEdit

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: Great work on the Oblivion Vampire article! You have been one of the most active users at the moment and you have been adding so much good content, that I feel all your work must not go unrewarded. Furthermore, now I can personally thank you for giving me a cookie! Wolok gro-Barok 10:50, 27 May 2009 (EDT)

TemplateSandboxEdit

After talking to Ratwar in the IRC, I have decided to make a page that holds all the templates on them in order to have everyone at your finger tips. However, I want to ask if you can look over the additions I have already made (it is in my sandbox). I am not finished, but plan to be soon. Thanks! Oh, and if you want to talk, I will be in IRC. :) --Mr. Oblivion^(T-C) 11:50, 27 May 2009 (EDT)

First of all... great idea! I think that it will be extremely useful for anyone wanting to find those templates quickly. I've looked in your sandbox and have a few suggestions:

• Add the OPRP 'Needs Verification' template to the 'Questionable Content' section
• Move the 'Needs Wikification' template there as well
• Add the 'Fix Image' template to the 'Images' section
• Add the 'Unsigned' template to the 'Other' section
• Add Places and NPC summary box templates; maybe in a new section called 'Summary Boxes'

Good luck with it! --SerCenKing ^Talk 11:59, 27 May 2009 (EDT)

ThanksEdit

Thanks for putting my fan fics in the right place ^^ I'm new to the wiki scene -— Unsigned comment by Darkom (talk) on 30 May 2009

No problem! Always happy to help. --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:13, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

My recent adjustments to spell formulasEdit

http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Morrowind:Spells&action=history Okay, I've read all of the discussion page. What's your point? Skrofler 10:30, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
Okay. Have a nice day. Skrofler 15:16, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

Stub TemplateEdit

Hiya,

I've made the changes you were trying to make to Template:Stub including new categories. If you think the categories are okay (you can see them on the Special:Wantedcategories page at the moment) then go ahead and create 'em. If not, rename them to whatever you think best. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:04, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

Hey, thanks for that! I'm afraid all that NS_Name stuff is still beyond my reach! Good to see you peek in once in a while; hope you're getting rid of the stress. --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:30, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

Page LinkingEdit

Hi, thanks for moving my page, but how do i like, get it onto my page, and where should i put it ? — Unsigned comment by Bensp12 (talk) on 6 June 2009

You can't properly 'get it' on your page, unless you transclude it, which requires a breadcrumb trail; which is not what you want. I see you have already linked it on your user page; that's about it. May I remind you to use the four tiles (~~~~) to sign a post and the 'Show Preview' button so Recent Changes is not clogged up with changes. Thanks. --SerCenKing ^Talk 05:07, 7 June 2009 (EDT)

TR userboxesEdit

I'm guessing you'll notice anyway, but just in case you don't, there are now standard userboxes for Tamriel Rebuilt, in particular User TR4. The only real difference is that with the standard ones you'll get added to the "users knowledgeable about Tamriel Rebuilt" category. --Nephele^Talk 10:33, 7 June 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, I had already noticed them earlier today and changed them. Thanks for making them! --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:26, 7 June 2009 (EDT)

Sorry... I somehow managed to patrol that edit and yet completely miss it at the same time ;) --Nephele^Talk 18:05, 7 June 2009 (EDT)

Gold StarEdit

You have been given a gold star! Congratulations on your successful Patroller nomination! Welcome to the team...and the insanity ;). –Eshetalk 16:39, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

Will won't?Edit

Hey SerCenKing. I'm not sure what you intended with this edit, and I'm not sure whether "will" or "won't" is appropraite. Can you check it and revise as appropriate? Thanks! --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 18:54, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right. I amended it; see here. --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:14, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Speedy DeletionsEdit

I recently went through all of the images you renamed and speedy-prodded and changed them to regular proposed deletions. These files redirects do not qualify for speedy deletion. Please see this to freshen yourself with the guidelines, particularly section 6. Please be a tad more hesitant when using {{speed}}. Thanks! :) —Elliot^(T-C) 19:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

ImagesEdit

Hi Serc - hope you're enjoying your break but I have a small request.

Please can you re-upload these images over the existing ones so we don't lose the edit history:

• OB-npc-Bronsila Kvinchal.jpg
• OB-npc-Hillod the Outlaw.jpg

Additionally, please could you re-upload your versions of these images over the originals then do a rename - for the same reason:

• Fathis Aren.jpg
• OB-Pinarus Inventius.jpg
• OB-Quill Weave.jpg
• OB-Martina Floria.jpg
• Jeanne Frasoric.jpg
• OB-Talwinque.jpg
• OB-Imus The Dull.jpg
• Oblivion CountRegulusTerentius.jpg
• Cosmus the Cheat.jpg
• Eletta.jpg
• OB-UlrichLeland.jpg

No hurry though. Hope to see you back soon. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 16:49, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey, sorry for taking a month to reply; but I've only just returned to civilization! I re-uploaded all of the images you asked except for OB-Martina Floria.jpg, Jeanne Frasoric.jp, Eletta.jpg and OB-UlrichLeland.jpg. The first three are all your images while the fourth doesn't seem to have been changed at all. Also, to rename the images, I need to delete those already existing; no problems with that? --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:28, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

I'll take care of those. Thanks for re-uploading - and welcome back! –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 00:30, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Stolen HorseEdit

I just recieved the message "Your White horse has been returned to Anvil Stable." Does that mean it was stolen or...?Chronic 20:39, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

He seems to be away at the moment so I will answer. Since you got that message, I assume you got another horse. What happens when you have two horses is that your old horse returns to the stable where you got it from (i.e White horse returning to Anvil, such is your case). So no, it wasn't stolen. :) –Elliot ^talk 21:22, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

are you my potrol? - ser brandon99.130.204.223 00:19, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

QuestionsEdit

I have a few questions about UESP and if you would answer them then thanks - Ser Brandon 99.130.204.223 00:31, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Essence of breathEdit

While collecting that part of the Gatekeeper I noticed that the breath that happens at intervals will actually help guide you to the Essence of Breath. I didn't know if this was worth noting, but I figured you would know what to do with it as it is your project. — Unsigned comment by Chronic (talk) on 5 September 2009

CookieEdit

You have been given a plateful of cookies! Well, a half plate anyway. I promised these to Eshe when I asked for pics to use here, but since you beat her to at least half the pictures, you get half the plate :) Dlarsh(Talk,Contribs,E-mail) 21:52, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

New picturesEdit

I noticed your newly added pictures of the residents of the shivering isles. I just wanted to say thanks for that, because I'm working on a sandbox with several pictures of them. It makes it look so much better! Thanks again!--Arch-Mage Matt 01:21, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

You're very welcome! Could I just ask you to change the link for Caldana Monrius on your sandbox from File:Caldana Monrius.jpg to File:SI-npc-Caldana Monrius.jpg so we can get rid of at least one image redirect? Thanks. --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:31, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Sure, I'll get around to changing all of them eventually.--Arch-Mage Matt 14:49, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Moving ImagesEdit

Hey, I just wanted to let you know that when you move the files to a correct name, you should prod the redirects and edit the pages the files are on. ;) –Elliot ^talk 20:01, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Hey there! Yeah I know, but I tend to leave that task till the end, because in the hell that image uploading is, that's probably the worst of the worst! XD --SerCenKing ^Talk 20:03, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Shivering NPCsEdit

Hey SerC! Brilliant work on all the new SI images! As you know, I wrote a few Shivering Isles NPC pages a while ago, and I figured I would give you a small list of the NPCs that I couldn't write from the game - for various reasons. If you don’t have the time to write them yourself, it would be great if you could write down the AI packages on either my or the NPCs talk page – then I’ll give the NPCs another look. I’ll probably update this section every once in a while – hope it’s okay with you.

• Amiable Fanriene (so paranoid, that he is impossible to follow)
• Tove the Unrestful (really really bugged)
• Hirrus Clutumnus (Quite impossible to do in-game, as he will seek you out and seems to change his behavior every hour.)

That's it for now. No rush or anything! --Krusty 22:23, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Hey there! Good to see you! Yeah, I've almost *stresses almost* finished images and looking forward to writing up some NPCs. Funnily enough, I have literally just finished writing up Adeo's, Ahjadza's and Amiable's info. As soon as I have time I'll add them, and yes my friend Amiable will need some good old in-game checking! ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 22:29, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

ImagesEdit

I'm not getting involved again, but please be careful with what you're uploading. File:OB-npc-S'jirra.jpg - you said your version was a "Better resolution image"? It's not. The previous version was square and perfectly good and also had a higher resolution than the one you replaced it with. I also think you're overwriting many good images... and I'm not the only one.–rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 22:55, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I've just reverted all the images where a better version was in place. Please be careful with what you upload. Your images are good, but there are many good images already in place. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 23:09, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

CensorshipEdit

Hi SerC,

In blatant violation of the site's policies, The Powers That Be have removed a link that I added to your page. Please use the History function to find it, although I'm sure you didn't need to be told that. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 02:44, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

General ResponseEdit

First of all... Guys... Let's all calm down please! No need to get so angry! First off I would like to thanks (yes, THANK) rpeh for what I believe is positive criticism: I will do my best to improve. I would also like to point out that I didn't mind having that link on my page, I am absolutely fine with people disagreeing with me. If however it broke any policy, fine let it go. So finally, I just want to say that I've been trying my best with images but I since it appears I still have room to improve, improve I shall. Thanks to all of you. --SerCenKing ^Talk 08:10, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Image DiscussionEdit

Okay... let's get going :)

You may have noticed on the Recent Changes page but I've added brief comments to the contested images on their talk pages. For ease of access, those are:

• S'jirra
• Hill of Suicides
• Prior Maborel
• Uungor
• Knifepoint Hollow
• Cann
• Dunroot Burrow (note - this image is misspelled: "Dunroot" only has one "r" but the name has two. I can't move images any more though) Done!
• House of Dementia
• New Sheoth

I kept it brief to start with to get the ball rolling. Let me know what you think! –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 11:37, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Message!Edit

Hey SerC! As you might have noticed on my user page, my PS3 crashed big time yesterday - so I'm out of the (in-)game for about a month, maybe longer. I also lost all my savegames, so I'll have to spend a few weeks building up a new high-level character for the ONPCRP work. But as soon as all that is done, I will be back on our SI revamp! Just wanted to let you know! --Krusty 22:18, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Ahh, hope it'll get fixed up soon and it won't cost too much! Don't worry, by the time you're back you should have quite a few fellows to stalk! --SerCenKing ^Talk 07:58, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Alden the WandererEdit

I know what you mean about the Inns page for TR4, but it doesn't seem right to have a page about inns only to say "There aren't any". Maybe have a heading on the Places page and put that "There are no inns on the island, but, as everyone will tell you, the beggar Alden the Wanderer is willing to rent out his bedroll." line there? What do you think? –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 18:53, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually, that's exactly what I was planning! I meant the Inns page to go sooner or later, I just wanted to make sure that the info was on the place page before that happened. Are we just going to put that line or do we want to include the standard chart as well? --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:08, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

My preference would be just to use the line. Treating Alden like an Inn seems... odd. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 22:00, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Same here.. In this case, I'll leave you the honour to make the changes as I'm off to bed (maths tomorrow morning :s) --SerCenKing ^Talk 22:02, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

SorryEdit

ok ok im sorry i wont do it again i promise but lets admit it.............it was funny — Unsigned comment by 124.178.180.219 (talk) on 20 December 2009

Finding something funny is subjective: personally I don't like uncalled-for insults; hopefully that won't happen again. Posting a comment on Wolok's talk page would be nice as well. --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:00, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

WhyEdit

Why? Rpeh's no better than me. He's vandalized this site, I, at least have never done that. 86.170.169.139 14:29, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

First of all, rpeh has never vandalised this wiki; even if you believe he used a sockpuppet, the accusations end there. He was de-admined for allegedly having an sockpuppet not for vandalising the site. Secondly, I never stated you were a vandal, I said that with you edits are leading me to believe you are one. Furthermore, your edits were not reverted, which is the case for vandalism. What you were doing was posting personal attacks, since that is not tolerated, I followed policy. If you don't like rpeh, fine; but insulting him isn't going to help. --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:10, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Wow!Edit

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: Really well done on all the images! And you accused me of filling up the Recent changes page :) One or two are perhaps a little bright, but most of them look great. Congratulations! –rpeh•T•C•E• 18:29, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks rpeh! Yeah well *cough cough*.. well.. well.. mine are images not edits! Just kidding ;) I really enjoyed the higher degree of imaging PSP gives you so it wasn't too much of a burden. Your opinion is greatly valued, especially with images, so I'm happy you like them! --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:54, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Your Images, SirEdit

Here and here are images of the two miners' shacks - Western and Eastern respectively. here, here and here are three images of Stirk Manor's second floor, showing the entrance, bedroom corridor and central bedroom respectively. I've already added the image of poor Captain Steller to the Creatures page.

That just leaves the image of the guard with a shield. I couldn't actually find a guard carrying a shield but I'll have another snoop around tomorrow. Let me know if any of those aren't what you wanted. –rpeh •T•C•E• 00:22, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks rpeh! They look fantastic! Hmm, you've probably come across the Archer guards, how have a shield but maybe won't equip it visibly. On the CS the normal guards with shields are: the really tanned imperial that looks like a redguard, the one with a chubby face and green eyes and the one in my pic. Hopefully that helps :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 08:43, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

FeedbackEdit

SerC, I would really appreciate your opinion as well for the matter going on here. Whenever you have the time please post your opinion there as well. TY :) --S'drassa ^•T2M 19:36, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Can I ask a favor? (or many :P)Edit

Hi, SerC! As you can see in my conversation with Krusty, I've moved all the info of the DB members to their pages. But there are a few things missing. First, M'raaj-Dar's page still needs spells. Also, their chests seem to be set to spawn certain random, leveled loot, and last, it seems that Vicente has some strange behavior of "follow M'raaj-Dar" that kicks in at 4pm (at least from my observations in-game). So, if it isn't too much to ask, do you think you could give me a hand with this whenever you have the time, please? --S'drassa ^•T2M 23:36, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

First off, great job! You've probably seen my comment on your talk anyway :) As for the spells checking goes, sure it won't take me long and it will make the page look more complete; same goes for the containers. I'll give a look at Vicente's schedule too and see if its buggy. I'm also going to try to get new images for those NPCs since my older ones have a weird green lighting xD Again, well done! --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:50, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi, SerC! It's me again. Hmm, do you think you could give a check to Vicente's inventory in the CS when you have the time, because in both of your images of him he isn't wearing a gold necklace, while in the first version he is. Also, in your newest version it seems that he is weilding a claymore instead of a sword. Hope I'm not bothering you with this :S --S'drassa ^•T2M 23:12, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

No problem! Yeah I saw the comment on the image's talk.. In any case, he definitely has a gold necklace; but I honestly don't know why it doesn't show :) He does carry a leveled longsword but he also carries an enchanted leveled longsword and an enchanted leveled claymore. Hopefully that answers your question. Oh, and see here for my musings on Vicente's schedule. --SerCenKing ^Talk 23:22, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thanks again. I'll make the necessary tweaks and add a note about the... bug? In any case, thanks again :) --S'drassa ^•T2M 23:25, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

No worries.. btw, where are from S'drassa? (Soz if this seems stalker-ish :p) --SerCenKing ^Talk 23:33, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Well... we're actually way too far way. I'm from Mexico, so don't be surprised if you see me making edits at 4am (UTC of course) since at that time it's only 11pm here. Though the edit "traffic" really gets slow at that time so it's not so hard to patrol the few edits that I see. --S'drassa ^•T2M 23:41, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Jayred Ice-Veins - suggestionEdit

Hey SerC - could you check the latest edits I made to the (rather big, but good) page for Jayred Ice-Veins? I made a few corrections to the schedule (some rather strange ones, actually), so you might wanna double-check with the CS. I also tweaked the layout a bit, and then I started thinking; maybe we should consider designing the page in the same style as the J'skar-page? You know, schedule and dialogue mixed together to form some sort of history? I'm not sure, but Jayred's page could be an opportunity to use that idea once again. --Krusty 19:22, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I've just checked in the CS and I got before and during the quest mixed up!! Silly me, guess that what you in-gamers are here for! :) In any case my suggestion is: let's go for it. I can see the Jayred page being a really good page; especially if we can get rpeh to check the spells :p Since you definitely have more experience than me on this sort of thing (J'skar and Meth) I'll let you sort out the layout and I might just tweak it a bit :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:30, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Haha, okay. I'll give it a shot in my sandbox in the near future. Nice tweaks, btw - I was writing it directly into the wiki (without my beloved Word) so it needed it. I'll let you know when I'm done with the design. --Krusty 22:02, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

TyermallinEdit

Really? It was copied from another person...maybe get rid of the other one? 69.211.143.97 18:24, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw that but it looks like Itachi has taken care of it. It's not really necessary as I said and it's better not to have it in general.On a side note, thanks for the NeedsMaps you've been adding on Tribunal pages! --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:33, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm doing that to many Tribunal/Bloodmoon pages, but am beginning to worry about spam (someone should definitely have done it by now or they did and the map is already good)...

69.211.143.97 19:26, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the current maps are bad, but I understand the need for cohesion and so forth. The problem is that if more than one editor produces the maps there could be differences in their choice of layout and format on points not dictated upon by the guidelines, so we'd probably never achieve complete consistency. Anyway, thanks for putting up those tags! -Itachi 19:32, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

ALL done?Edit

O'RLY? ;-) rpeh •T•C•E• 15:12, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

DAMMIT!!!! Missed that one :( I've downloaded the overlay now, so technically now I have all the overlays. I'm having a few problems because of the gigantic resolution on that map so I might retake it myself... Will be done soon ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:18, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry! I happened to notice that one yesterday when I was doing the Refugees. From the image history it looks like Vesna also had some trouble with it. rpeh •T•C•E• 15:29, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

No worries. Btw, great work on the missing SI npc pages! The only ones missing now are the Vitharn Revelers, Citizens, Soldiers etc! --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:39, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Plus there are a couple that needs NPC Summaries (like SI:Apostle) and others that currently redirect (SI:Ghost Fanatic). Krusty mentioned on IRC that you were planning to tackle the fanatic one. Is that right? I wouldn't want us to waste each other's time.

There are also a few Oblivion NPCs that need doing: the various Arena Combatants should probably have entries, and there are several specific types of guard (Bruma Investigator Guard, Cheydinhal Gate Guard and Leyawiin City Watch). It never stops, does it? :) rpeh •T•C•E• 16:09, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Chapel of the BrethrenEdit

I'm not really sure, but since we have seperate pages for all other chapels in the game, should we make a page for this one as well? As you might have noticed I just finished writing all the NPCs from Hackdirt, and each and every time I have been a bit sad that I couldn't link to a Chapel page. Still, it only contains some benches and that book. --Krusty 16:19, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

I'd say the chapel should have it's own page, a bit like Cadlew Chapel. And I'm more than willing to go take a pic for the exterior :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:24, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant! We can always try. I'll see if I can whip up some text about that weird cult. We already have a pic of the book, I believe - but maybe also take a pic of Etira Moslin reciting from the Bible? (Just an idea, though) --Krusty 16:30, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Sure, that would also make a better NPC image! Once I finished uploading the last NPC pics I'll get to it! --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:33, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Nice! And btw, it's good to see the Hackdirt people get some good images! --Krusty 16:42, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

My pleasure, do you like Staya's new one? --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:46, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Yup! It looks really good. And it was much needed! --Krusty 16:57, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I have tried to do some rambling about Chapel of the Brethren in my SANDBOX. Could you take a look and make the (often) terrible writing a bit better? All the info is based on the dialogue from the citizens, so it should be accurate. There's also something wrong with the layout, compared to other chapel pages. Maybe you have a few ideas? Feel free to work directly in the sandbox. Thanks in advance! --Krusty 22:21, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

CookieEdit

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: You have uploaded more than 50 images and helped me on a Meridia question, this is the least I can do.--Corevette789 17:18, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Corevette789! Well done for the good work you've being doing too. Just a bit of advice: if you're not entirely sure about an edit, leave it and someone else will surely tackle it. That said, keep the great work! --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:21, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Cookie!Edit

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: Thanks for helping me out with how to remove the oblivion patch. --ModderElGrande 13:18, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks ModderElGrande! Although as I said I'm not sure it'll be a patch that will allow you to use the duplication glitch. --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:46, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

The only patch really need to get rid of is the 1.2 patch, which is what I've got. --ModderElGrande 14:51, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Okay, That Does It!Edit

You have been given a plateful of cookies! I've lost count of the number of images and NPC details you've added over the past few days! You must be getting hungry, so the least I can do is give you a few cookies as a reward. Keep up the good work! rpeh •T•C•E• 17:13, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks rpeh, it's always a pleasure receiving baked treats from you... I know they're well deserved! I've still got 50ish to go so hold on tight! ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:25, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

ImagesEdit

Kindly stop replacing images with your low quality garbage. Saya 14:16, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm, of course you would know more than me about imaging and NPC pics since you've

a) Contributed extensively in the last few years and know all about the consensus regarding images

b) Have uploaded a great deal of your own and thus qualify to take a stand on other people's

and c) Happen to be an expert in imaging, which makes you understand the concepts of jpg size, resolution, brightness and contrast inside out

But wait, this description doesn't fit you. Shame. Now, do something useful or go away. --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:48, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I've already told "Saya" I think s?he is talking nonsense but it's worth saying again. Of the images that were reverted, the only one that gave me pause was this one because I rather like my original version, but OTOH it's technically an interior so you're right to overwrite it - and the new image is excellent. This one is particularly good, even though it's not square. I'll let you off because it's such a good pic though! rpeh •T•C•E• 18:05, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. You're right, I was a bit reluctant to overwrite that one but I figured we needed a view of the building, I'm glad you like the replacement. Ferrum was quite hard to get and I had to resort to a slightly distorted image, hopefully it didn't ruin the pose too much :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:28, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I've reverted the images back to the old versions and kindly asked Saya not to repeat this behaviour. Jayden Matthews 18:29, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Surely saved me quite a hassle. :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:30, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

You're more than welcome. Thanks for the star! Jayden Matthews 18:39, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

CommentEdit

How is/were/are my comment(s) unconstructive? –Elliot ^talk 20:31, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Of course, that is subject of opinion. I fail to see how a comment like the one you posted on MDS' page is constructive: it surely didn't prompt anything but further arguments. In any case, it seems to be settled and I don't wish to create an argument over something so small. --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:57, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Vitharn Images?Edit

Hey there. Just a little reminder - and a bit of begging - for the pictures for the Vitharn page. Dlarsh and I have finished the page, and as soon as the images are there, we will launch. Most important one would be the square Althel image, but an image of the ruined city (maybe with some ghosts fighting?) and the battlefield in Vitharn Keep would be more than nice! Feel free to improvise - also, your thoughts about the page will be more than welcome! :) --Krusty 16:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Sure, I'll go grab some right now! Just to clarify, the "ruined city" is the exterior right? --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:56, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I think so - the image we already have only shows the sealed entrance and it's a bit boring. Would be nice with some fighting ghosts with the ruins in the background. --Krusty 18:14, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Right, I finally made that trip to Vitharn and I'm telling you... It was hard! I've uploaded new NPCs images (including Althel) and two others: one shows a fanatic and a ghost fighting in front of Vitharn and the second shows the final battle. I'm a bit worried about the second, I tried to tweak it as best as possible but it's still a bit dark. So if you like them cool, if not, I'll give it another shot. --SerCenKing ^Talk 11:13, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Not to worry! I like all of them - and realize that the final battle is a tough one to shoot. A few weeks ago, I tried to run around on the battlefield and it is a pretty messy scenery, no doubt. Thank you so much (from me and Dlarsh) - now, I'll launch the revamped quest-page and we can scratch that one from the list. --Krusty 11:18, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

(outdent)I agree, the new pics look great. A heartfelt thanks from me as well. I'm quite pleased with how the page turned out :) Dlarsh^(T,C) 18:13, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

No problem, I'm always more than willing to help... And thank you two for the great work you've done! --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:43, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Confront the KingEdit

I have reviewed the confronted the king mission earlier today, and it appears that if only if you paralyse manimarco, then hit him with the skull of corruption will the gitch work. I tested it with over 40 different spells, and the paralyse one, was the only one that worked --Manic 20:55, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

That is great information to know! Thanks for your testing - I wasn't arguing that it was incorrect, simply you gave no indication as to why you were removing the VN tag (see my edit summary here). If you don't provide an explanation, then your edit will be reverted as we do not know if you have really tested this or not. Thanks for bringing it to my page, but next time please remember to post a comment on the article's talk page explaining why you are removing the VN. --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:18, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Fathis ArenEdit

Hey there! Right now, I'll begin investigating the Fathis Aren page - but before I begin I would like you to take a look at the pages for Dro'Nahrahe and Brokil gro-Shatur - and specifically the bugs section. On the page it says that Fathis will take the same midday trip to the statue (and the circumstances seem to be the same) as the two bugged characters - could you compare the schedules, just to check if he has the same bug? Thanks in advance! --Krusty 15:26, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

I've just pulled up the NPCs that use that specific package and they are:

• Brokil gro-Shatur
• Dro'Nahrahe
• Fathis
• Olava the Fair

My best guess is: Fathis is gonna be bugged as well. Still, try checking in-game. --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:44, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Will do. And, just for the record: Fathis does not sleep - he just wanders around his quarters all night long. Back when we wrote the Janus Hassildor-page, we discovered that a certain quest had to be completed before he would sleep. Maybe it is the same thing here? --Krusty 15:53, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Nope, his conditions are set to "None". The problem might be because the package doesn't have the "Armor Unequipped" and "Weapons Unequipped" flags checked. --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:57, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Okay, this is the in-game schedule:

• 12am-2pm - Wanders around in his quarters, Lord's Manor North Wing
• 2pm-5pm - Mages Guild
• 5pm-8pm - Wanders around in his quarters
• 8pm-12am - Formal dinner

Now we only need to find out why! Seems like tow bug notes to me. And another detail to consider: When he "wanders" around his tower, he actually performs alchemy near the table in his study. --Krusty 16:55, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Yay! I've found the reason why he won't sleep! After a bit of tinkering and modding I realised that the sleep package is the last one in the load order and never gets chosen. You were right about the Arrow of Extrication as well - there were two conflicting packages and I chose the wrong one. I'll update the page. :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:30, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Nice work! As you can see, I added all dialogue and rumors and tried to clean up a little. Maybe we can somehow implement the last note into the second one? And maybe rephrase the service info from his introduction (since he never sleeps). Other than that, we can finish this page pretty soon! --Krusty 10:46, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

ImageEdit

Hey again! You just prodded the image of Gruiand Garrana praying in front of the Altar of the Nine. Like I wrote in the cleanup-tag, that image will look brilliant as an "action-shot" on Gruiand's own page. I think it is a beautiful shot (you can even see the name "Arkay" in the background) and the only reason I didn't add it to the NPC page right away was that I would like the top cut off, so the image would be in 4:3. But, to remove it from the unused image-category, I'll go ahead and add it to the page as it is - and reinstate the cleanup tag. Oh and btw - can I point your completed-NPCs-hungry-eyes towards Dro'Nahrahe? ;) --Krusty 08:53, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Ahh, I see. Yeah I was checking the unused images cat and I thought I'd replaced it. Feel free to re-instate the clean-up and I'll crop it. And here's a treat for you :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:01, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Great. I renamed it (not entirely perfect as I accidentally hit the "enter" button) and put it on her page. If you will crop it, then I'd me most happy. Thanks for the spell-checking! --Krusty 09:07, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Btw.. do you want the image in 4:3 or square? --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:34, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

In 4:3 - I think the action shots looks best in that format (so we don't have two square images on the same page). You can actually just cut off the top until it fits - then it will be just fine. Thanks. --Krusty 09:38, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Soz, I just saw the clean-up tag.. Hope you like it! --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:40, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Yup, it looks great. Gives the page a bit of spice. Thanks again. --Krusty 09:43, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank youEdit

Thank you for actually explaining the desired guidelines and being generally helpful to someone wishing to contribute, instead of being seemingly more interested in demonstrating your station than helping Walbert 22:16, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Rock OnEdit

Rock on for checking all of those rumors/spells :) Walbert 19:11, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! A thank you for all the good work you've been doing! --SerCenKing ^Talk 08:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

EditingEdit

Hey SerC, When you're going to edit a page for grammar or spelling please remember to hit "Show Preview" and check your spelling as this saves the need for two to three additional edits to clean up the spelling/syntax. Also, third person perspective is entirely acceptable as per the style guide (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/UESPWiki:Style_Guide#No_First_Person) - so there is no reason to edit a page simply to remove third person writing unless the article is being fully re-written and second person is needed for some reason (For example if you've written a whole section in second person, and a stub is all that existed before, then I would change it all to second person for simplicity's sake). Thanks, and thanks for clarifying on my images question :) Walbert 21:32, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the tips, but having edited this site for over a year I am fully aware of all the guidelines. Apologies for that "encounter"... which Corevette had to correct... which I had to correct :P I never said third person wasn't accepted but using second and avoiding repeating "the player" endlessly flows much better ("second-person descriptions can often be easier to write"). Also, those aren't the only changes I made: I better organised the rumors and dialogue sections and removed a few unnecessary words. No probs for the image question! :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

AhdarjiEdit

Okay, I finished the page and added all the quest dialogue as well - I think it is relevant (and kindda funny) so it belongs there. But as usual, when the pages gets too big, I kindda missed something in the layout, so I tried to put on an image of Amusei. This image should be replaced with an "action shot" (I added an explanation on the NeedsImage-tag), but I will let you decide if an image is even necessary. Also, I didn't make too much of an effort in the dialogue descriptions, because I know (and hope) you will tweak it anyway. --Krusty 09:16, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and this page can be finished - by you! :) --Krusty 11:22, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Oops! What is this? Another one, I think! :D --Krusty 22:08, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

And what is THIS? :D (btw, I hope you noticed all the Fathis Ules stuff I wrote on my talk page. --Krusty 14:35, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks...Edit

... for catching that one. I would say "I can't believe I substituted one typo for another", but it does seem to be one of those fundamental laws of the universe. --Vometia 21:37, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Haha, absolutely no worries! Thank you for finding the typo in the first place. --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:40, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Sometimes I really hate you...Edit

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: This is almost perfect: lighting, time of day, pose, everything. If you've still got the original s/shot and can re-upload in 4:3 rather than 1:1... well, I'll hate you even more :p rpeh •T•C•E• 00:49, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks rpeh! I'm really sorry but it looks like you'll have to love a bit.... I'm afraid I deleted the original .bmp :( Soz. --SerCenKing ^Talk 07:31, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

AgarmirEdit

Hey SerC! I can't remember if I told you, but I found a small bug with your Agarmir schedule - I described it here. I'm a bit curious, so maybe you can take another look in the CS and add a bug description? --Krusty 21:38, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

RE: RE: Your Comment on ANEdit

I'm just saying that Elliot has been making this for a long time and that he refuses to change his habits. I don't have anything against you; I like your work here. Sorry for any confusion. --Michaeldsuarez ^{(Talk) (Deeds)} 16:17, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Alright. --Michaeldsuarez ^{(Talk) (Deeds)} 14:44, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

VicenteEdit

Hi, I will try and find the alternate version, although my CS seems broke at the moment. I've heard of the Imperial version several times on fan sites as a bit of trivia, and theres a mod out there that reverts it to that version. I may be wrong, but I'll do some digging when I can Corvus 10:18, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Perfect! I tried sorting the NPCs by name and I didn't find him... Let me know if you get anything ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:20, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All I seem to be able to find at the moment is this mod, the description claims that the voice files were already there. Haven't been able to check this though, I'm a CS noob Corvus 15:48, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

The DuelistsEdit

Hey SerC - maybe you can solve this little problem. Back in October I checked the inventories for all the Duelists and found that Caldana was NOT bugged and only carried one piece of equipment, so I removed the bug note from her page. I did, however, have my major PS3 crash afterwards and lost all my high-level saves, so I am unable to check it in-game now. Can you by any chance see if there is a difference between Caldana and the rest of the Fight Club? --Krusty 13:37, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

From what I can tell Caldana and Cutter are different from the rest because an iron dagger is added to their inventories rather than a club. I ran the USIP on all of them and its has indeed changed the script for Caldana: instead of removing one dagger, it removes 32767! It appears as if only Cutter hasn't been affected, although I honestly cannot tell why. --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:29, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Just a thought: could it be something to do with her being a Bosmer? (Sorry if that's an utterly idiotic idea I'm super tired right now).--TheAlbinoOrc^{Got_a_question?} 14:33, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

>SerC> Thanks for checking. Seems like I was wrong about Caldana and that the bug description belongs on her page. --Krusty 17:37, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Kud-Ei - and the restEdit

Hey SerC! As you know, the ONPCRP has evolved quite a bit since we started – and quest related dialogue bits are more or less included on all pages, as long as it tells something about the NPC or tells a story of some kind. Reading through some of the “old” Mages Guild pages, I started considering including some more dialogue and I checked Kud-Ei for inspiration. Not only does she have a unique way of letting you join the Guild, her entire dialogue for the Recommendation quest also tells a bit about her being quite a leader, “willing to do anything for her girls”. For consistency with how we handle things now, we should probably include all that at some point. However, if we do, a considerable problem arise; many pages have “DialogueChecked” in the ONPCRP-tag, which basically means that we will mess up the system, unless we remove the Checked-tag, in the process flushing a lot of hard work from several editors. So: What do you think: Complete pages, consistent with how we write them now - or incomplete pages? This talk probably belongs on the project page – but I wanted to hear your opinion first; after all, you wrote the entire guild! --Krusty 14:52, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea. We want to both keep up with the new developments and keep consistency between the pages. As you said, we can include the quest dialogue that provides some info, not every single bit - that would overdo it. So, yeah, it's a yes from me ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:12, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Cool. As a matter of fact, we have included Falcar's join-the-guild dialogue, so we might as well do it all over. I´ll have a go at it when I get back from work later today. --Krusty 09:55, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

The Mages Guild leadersEdit

Hey SerC. Just a quick message before I'm out the door. As you can see on Kud-Ei and Carahil's pages, I have added joining/recommendation dialogue. Since I'm not very inspired when I write the text "between" the dialogue bits, I was wondering if you could take a quick look and give the pages your "touch"? Oh, and both pages could really need some action shots at some point; Kud-Ei and Henantier together for example. See you later! --Krusty 09:46, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Sure thing, I'll give 'em a look. And you, my dear friend, are a mind reader! I saw the cleanup on the Anvil Mages Guild image and I thought: "Hmm, I really need to get an action shot of the ambush" :P --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:48, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing :) I'll leave you to get it then. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm, then it's definitely something to do with UESP screenshot taking... :P We should call it "Obsessive Action Shot Disorder" xD --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:01, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually, rpeh, would you mind taking care of them? I just realised I'm running a bit late on my study schedule :( --SerCenKing ^Talk 11:02, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Your wish is my command :) I'm lacking inspiration for Carahil though. rpeh •T•C•E• 11:57, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

When I added the NeedsImage tag to the quest page I more or less hoped to use the new shot on Carahil's page as well - with a text that says "Carahil sends you right into the action" or something similar. Nevertheless, the new images (the one of Kud-Ei and Henantier as well) really gives these pages a more interesting feel/look and I think it is the way to go when the text gets too massive. Good work - and I'll just continue my dialogue rampage on the other Guild leaders. --Krusty 13:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks rpeh! Excellent action shots!--SerCenKing ^Talk 13:45, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

(←) Agreed! I especially like the second one. – Robin Hood↝talk 17:44, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Dagail is up. As I feared, the page is more than massive, but a lot of great dialogue as well. We can, if it is too much, remove a few of the statements made by the other Guildmembers, but for now, the page tells the story in a good way. Once again, inventive action shots are more than welcome! --Krusty 15:16, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Cold Flame of Agnon NPC questionEdit

Hey SerC! I was, once again and in much pain, back inside Cylarne, trying to check the schedules of the NPCs. However, I came across a problem and I'm not sure what to do. I was attacking with the Golden Saints and Mirel survived. His page then states that "Once the battle is won, he will kneel down in front of it until Kaneh sacrifices herself. After this, he will be found wandering around the newly-conquered altar." Problem is, when exactly is he supposed to wander around the altar? I just returned to Cylarne (after completing the quest) and it is completely empty. Am I right when I say that he is disabled once the quest is completed? And is that true for every named NPC in Cylarne? --Krusty 08:20, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, isn't it a bit weird to state that Aurmazl Kaneh will "always be disabled at the end of the quest"? She will always die, right? ;) --Krusty 08:48, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I can't check now on the CS, but will do. I suppose he wanders after Kaneh sacrifices herself and before the quest ends.. Taken from his page: "He is enabled at the beginning of the related quest and will then be disabled once it is complete.". And yes, I'm 99% sure that's with all named NPCs in Cylarne (except maybe the guards). As for Kaneh, you're right, it doesn't sound right :P --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

My god, his page DO say that he is disabled. No panic, then! Still, maybe it should simply say that on all the NPC pages (if it doesn't already)? --Krusty 10:37, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm, in the various scripts I can only find one that mentions disabling Mirel, but nothing on Stela, Chuna or Vika... I went to Cylarne yesterday to take a few pics and there were was no-one inside Cylarne, only a few GS (I did the Mania side of the quest) around the Altar of Rapture... I think you should get RH or rpeh on this one. --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:54, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Just for the record, I hate you guys! :) The scripting around this quest is a nightmare (aka, "spaghetti code") and it's very difficult to figure out who's doing what where at any given moment. Here's what I've got so far.

• Chuna: Side with Saints: May or may not be alive, wandering around Cylarne, Altar of Despair. Side with Seducers: Must be killed to complete the quest.
• Stela: Side with Saints: Must be killed to complete the quest. Her body will disappear normally in time. Side with Seducers: May or may not be alive, wandering around Cylarne, Underkeep.
• Vika: Side with Saints: Must be killed to complete the quest. Her body will stay where you killed her forever. Seducers: Disabled as soon as you've finished talking with Ulfri.

Okay, I've just updated the above. Some of it was verified in-game, other parts in the CS, as I didn't relish the idea of repeating the quest a dozen times just to try to keep various people alive, but I believe it should be accurate. – Robin Hood↝talk 20:24, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

XedilianEdit

Hey, it is me once again! I just wanted to make surte you saw all the answers I wrote here - I feel like dungeon crawling a bit tonight, so let me know if there is anything you need checked - in the Isles, of course. ;) --Krusty 17:04, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Nothing in particular except for what is in my sandbox. I've added the maps in this sandbox, so it should be easier to check the teleport pads. As for the zombies, I just need to know if the bodies are there before you activate the Resonator. --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:39, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I'll give it a good test so we can get it right. Watch these pages. --Krusty 18:03, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I have added all information to the maps and uploaded them to your Sandbox for comparison. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask. I hope the maps speak for themselves. When you're done looking at them, just let me know - and I'll Speedy them as fast as I can. --Krusty 21:21, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Great Krusty! I think this is the correct and final order:

Zone 1: Enter from Out exit from F

Zone 2:

• Enter from F and activate Resonator
• Door closes behind you, G blocked, so use I teleport pad

Zone 1:

• Enter from I, meet Kiliban, Gnarl room
• I is walled off, use C to teleport to D - treasure room
• D is walled off.

Here is where we have a problem. If you are sure you have never used the G pads and that the wall in the second zone blocking the G pad there is always closed, then H cannot be blocked too... Otherwise you'd be stuck in the second room. I'll keep going with my assumption:

• Use H to teleport to second zone

Zone 2:

• Enter through H, anathema chamber. H is walled off, use E to get back to Zone 1

Zone 1:

• Enter through E, collect the Adventurers' equipment, meet Knights of Order

That sound correct to you? --SerCenKing ^Talk 22:25, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I'll take a final look tomorrow. :) --Krusty 22:33, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Okay, this thing should be entirely linear, so now I'll run through the dungeon and write down each and every telepad I use on the way - using the map as reference.

• Zone 1: Enter from "Out", exit from "F"
• Zone 2: Enter from "F" and activate Resonator.
• Zone 2: "I" teleport pad to Zone 1: "I" Teleport pad
• Zone 1: "C" teleport pad to Zone 1: "D" teleport pad
• Zone 1: "G" teleport pad to Zone 2: "H" teleport pad
• Zone 2: "E" teleport pad to Zone 1: "E" teleport pad

That is the complete, only and correct route. --Krusty 07:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Great work Krusty! Much appreciated! Looks like the map-designer got a bit confused with G and H, I'll correct that and then copy the info on the page. About the zombie corpses... They aren't there before you activate the Resonator are they? --SerCenKing ^Talk 08:21, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I need to hear it once again; exactly what zombie corpses are we talking about? --Krusty 08:43, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

The corpses found at O in the second zone, in what later becomes the chamber of anathema. My guess is they're not there before you talk to Kiliban, but I'm not 100% sure. --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:46, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Ah! It took a while, but I finally understood what you meant. No, absolutely no dead bodies in that room - only three Grummites and nothing else. --Krusty 09:54, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations - that Xedilian page looks absolutely gorgeous and the text is easy to follow. Nice! :) --Krusty 11:16, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup TagEdit

I tried putting it on the image page. The problem was the image stopped appearing in the preview, so I assumed that it went on the NPC page. Since it doesn't go there and it messes up the image page where should I put it?--TheAlbinoOrc^{any_questions?} 16:00, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

As a general rule, put it on the image page, as I've just done. The image preview not showing up is due to server lag (I've been uploading a bunch of shots and the wiki is still processing everything). Just hit F5 a few times to refresh the page and everything should be fine. --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:05, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Your own StarEdit

You have been given a gold star! Since you can't really award it to yourself, it is with great honour and pleasure that I award you this star, for the exceptional work you've done on the OBNPCRP. Thanks to you, we've managed to reach an important mark: 100 completed NPC pages! Great job! rpeh •T•C•E• 20:32, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Many thanks! It's been an great pleasure to work with you :) Let's keep it coming! --SerCenKing ^Talk 20:33, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Rpeh beat me to it - but I would like to echo what he said: Great job! --Krusty 20:36, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Indeed! Are we sure we haven't been working to much on Necromancers recently though? We seem to have gotten into Echo Cave :D.--TAO^Huh? 20:42, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Everyone has been given a complete collection of all Tamriel beers! Everyone, grab a beer! It's on the house! Enjoy a beer (For the minors, like myself, I threw in some milkshakes), and toast to the best Elder Scrolls Wiki ever! :D Even though I haven't contributed greatly, thanks for the star and enjoy the liquid refreshment --Arch-Mage Matt Did I Do That? 21:22, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

You have been given a Completed NPC! I figured this would be an appropriate prize, especially with the Grakedrig Ulfri!

By the way AMM Could you make that a template or something please? It keeps expanding to include mine.--TAO^Huh? 21:15, 17 September 2010 (UTC) Thanks!--TAO^Huh? 21:33, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

TR3 CreaturesEdit

Do you have information on hostility and any other related details that I might need for adding the descriptions to the page so it can get FA status?--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 17:16, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, nothing like that. I've barely started playing TR3 and I simply don't have the time to go looking for this stuff.. Sorry :( Good luck with the work though! --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:38, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

That's okay. Thanks for the luck!--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 16:00, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Will you be my Mentor?Edit

Hey SerC! Just to "get into" the OPRP, I have been messing around with my own rewrite of the Vanua page. What I would like you, the only member of this project still standing, to do, is "correct" my work. I have tried my best with the writing, inspired by the many pages you have made - but I also realize that I might be too detailed, too geeky, too... Well, you know what I mean. My attempt can be found here and I hope you can find the time to read through it - and to correct it, maybe even finish it. I will then compare your corrections to my own attempt and learn from that - and hopefully find the time to do some more place pages in the future. Thanks in advance - hope everything is good with you! --Krusty 18:27, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Haha, of course Krusty! I'm having a really tight schedule these days, but I'm free atm :) I'll give it a look. --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:34, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks - there's probably a lot of work there, but hopefully I can get some insight on how to write the pages properly, and we get another dungeon finished at the same time, which can't be a bad thing at all - looking forward to your results! --Krusty 19:23, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok so I looked through it and I must say: it's a very fine first page (not that I expected any worse from you :P). Unfortunately, I had ot do it quite quickly, so I might give it one last check tomorrow.
In any case, current philosophy on the OPRP is for walkthroughs to be more of a skeleton, which players then "flesh up" by themselves. By this I mean that a walkthrough should provide a brief overview of the most important bits: intersects, different paths you can take, areas accessible only from another zone, Welkynd Stones, boss chests, boss enemies, particularly high enemy concentrations (4-5), loot chests you might miss and unusual, non-random loot. I don't think we need to list every single enemy and minor loot container or that we have to spell out every room. If we keep it concentrated on these points, we can save a load of time and make sure we've covered all the important bits, while leaving the player freedom to explore his way round.
With that in mind, I've cut a few bits of your walkthrough. Most of the stuff you had down was great, so it wasn't too hard! If you keep these points in mind, I think you'll be a great OPRP member :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 20:54, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant! Thanks a lot for all the pointers and the corrections - they all make sense to me and that was what I hoped for. When writing pages like that, you can easily get carried away in detail and I figured I was too focused on detailing everything - guess that only experience can help me get through that hurdle. Nevertheless, while I'm unsure how fully-fledged an OPRP member I can be (still a few NPCs to go, right?), it happens quite often that I spend a LOT of time digging through dungeons while working the ONPCRP, so I figured I might as well help out the best I can - and now I have the tools. However, I will not launch the Vanua page until you have given it the final get-go, so just let me know. Thanks again. --Krusty 21:13, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I've done a few last tweaks and the page is now good to go... Great job! :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:34, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Nice! Page is now launched and tag removed! Thanks for all the help! --Krusty 14:21, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Oops...Edit

Sorry about that. I didn't realize rumors were an exception.--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 19:17, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

No harm done. In some cases rumors can be checked in-game, but because it is very hard to be able to hear them all in one go, unlike dialogue, relying on CS users is probably better. --SerCenKing ^Talk 19:20, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Nigidius the NeedyEdit

His page is almost completed (everything written and checked) expect for his spells. Can you confirm that he has no spells? --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 16:38, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Imperial Sewers SplitEdit

As one of only two official OPRPers who are still active that I'm aware of, I wanted to bring this to your attention, just in case you miss it going through RC. – Robin Hood↝talk 23:27, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

What to do?Edit

Hey SerC! I know that you are more or less busy with that real-life thing, but I also know that you are occasionally snooping around, so I figured I'd ask you this: What to do when you find something not displayed on the (wiki)map during your OPRP-work? THIS map lacks a green dot in the catacombs-like structure connecting the two large rooms - there are three chests (coffins, actually), not two. How to correct that? And how to correct the written info? --Krusty 00:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Hey Krusty! Hope all is well and that the latest filming went smoothly. In a case like this, the most important variable is: Does the container meet the "relevance criteria"? What this means is: Are there any valuable items in the container? Checking from the CS, the two chests marked are "DungTombCoffin01" while the unmarked one is "DungTombCoffinEmpty". This is actually misleading, because there is chance for some bones and lower-end clothes to be found in it. OTOH, the other coffin type has a chance of containing jewelry, potions, lockpicks, ingredients, weapons, gold, armor and ammo. What I'm basically getting at is that the unmarked chest doesn't contain enough valuable stuff to be mentioned - just like food sacks for example. In this case, it's best to leave things as they stand and not mention the coffin.
However, should there be a genuine mistake (like here) the best thing to do is leave a message to the map creator or me and we'll fix the map. Hopes this helps and good luck with the walkthrough! --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:06, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Gotcha. The walkthrough is up and running, and as usual, you are more than welcome to tweak it. I'll go ahead and make the minor change, though. Thanks for the response! --Krusty 07:54, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

A few questionsEdit

Hey SerC! Since I know that you're really bored with almost nothing to do, here are a few questions for you:

• I launched the Crayfish Cave revamp. I realize that the walkthroughs are too long - still, I think you have a much better feel about what to "peel" out.
• Could you give an opinion on THIS discussion? Just skip to the point where I indent it with the words "screw it". :)
• I also made a choice about the Una Armina-page. What do you think? Also, would it be possible to find exactly what a "fully-filled" museum tour would sound like? I don't have my completed save anymore, but it would be a nice addition to the page if we could write a museum tour dialogue with the quest "complete."
  

Hope it is okay that I send a few problems your way - remember, there is absolutely no rush! --Krusty 17:21, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok, so I gave my two cents on the Catacombs on rpeh's page, basically I'm for a page with info on the house and the Catacombs. Great job on Crayfish Cave! I especially liked your walkthroughs for Zones 1 and 5, and went ahead to shorten some of the others: just make sure you point at the most important bits, without detailing every single move the player should make! :) If I've got a bit more time before I head off to the cinema, I'll take a look at Una ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:22, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for tweaking the Crayfish Cave-page - I need to learn not mentioning all the minor-loot chests, and focus on what is important. Ah well, if I keep going I will get it sooner or later! :) It was a great cave to investigate actually; had a blast over the dead-drunk Goblin and thought the inclusion of the extra chamber with the Soul Gem was brilliant - fascinating how many surprises this game contains. Anyway, thanks again! --Krusty 18:36, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Hey again, SerC! I just wrote walkthroughs for Pinnacle Rock (needs tweaking at second glance, though), but wanted to ask a question: What to do if you stumble upon traps that are dysfunctional? The Cave-In traps here just doesn't work - or exist. --Krusty 20:15, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Possible?Edit

Since you are knowledgeable about the CS, I have a question to ask, though this may involve Ini settings. Is it possible to change the actor that you take control at the start of the game? Let's say, to put Raminus Polus or Irlav Jarol (examples)? --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 17:45, 29 November 2010 (UTC) P.S. I can't believe I forgot that, 2 days ago you completed 2 years into UESP. Congratulations!

Yeah, congrats on the 2 years SerCenKing! Not many people have the time or patience to stick around that long. --Dremora Lord 17:52, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you :) Rigas - unfortunately I have no idea, sorry :( --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:20, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't matter. I'll take a look at it myself. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 15:36, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the SI revampEdit

Looking through the list, I saw that some places needed in game verification. What would this consist of and could I help out on this task? - Emoboy64 21:08, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Feel free to join in! Your help would very much be appreciated :) Basically, the objective is to provide walkthroughs for the various SI dungeons, according to the guidelines found here. You may want to check out these three pages for inspiration. If you need help, just holla. --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:20, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Under the places section, there is a header 'Places needing in-game verification' with links to stores and the palace. I would like to do some work on them links, but im not sure what needs doing on them, the header confused me. - Emoboy64 15:39, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

An imageEdit

Hey, I have recently worked on upgrading The Knights of the Thorn lodge page here and think that it could benefit from an image of the basement. As you took the other images on the page, I was wondering if you could fix me up a shot of the basement. Thanks - Emoboy64 23:11, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

I took a look when I did the other two pics, and there is honestly nothing particularly image-worthy in there; plus two images fit in nicely with the text ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:20, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Una ArminaEdit

Hey SerC - just a friendly reminder about checking out Una Armina, if not for the ONPCRP, then simply for your opinion on my "choices" in the dialogue section; also, I still think it would be great t0 finish off the section with a completed quest-tour of the Museum, but I'm not sure it is possible to extract from the CS. I pasted all your Una-related dialogue to her talk page in case we ever need it. Oh, and you will find all answers to your Gundlar questions here. Cheers! --Krusty 08:52, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I'll check it out asap - currently working on Wide-Eye but will do :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:08, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

A few funny detailsEdit

I just saw Gundlar eat during Thadon's soliloquy - different package? Anyway, I made a few corrections to Wide-Eye's schedule and were a bit puzzled when I killed her - she carries an ordinary Elven Dagger in my Lvl 16 save - should it say "possibly enchanted" in her inventory section? Also, remember to click here. ;) --Krusty 20:25, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup, you're right - it is "possibly" enchanted. I don't get what you mean with Gundlar: he is supposed to eat through the monologue. I've tweaked the wording to make it less confusing. Also, a present here. I wasn't sure how to work it into the page so I dumped it there. I also can't figure out the order from the CS :( --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:33, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Ah, Gundlar's schedule says "he will feast together with the Duke" - I misread that. I just thought it was funny that this is the only occasion in the entire game where he gets something to eat, since he is bugged at any other meal. Ah well. Thanks for the Una Armina dialogue - now I just need to find someone with a completed quest-save, so they can give me the correct order. :) --Krusty 21:40, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Dialogue GlitchEdit

Hey SerC. I want you to test something, a problem that occurs with Carahil. Most of the times I tell her about the rogue mage and how she died, she says she'll give me my recomendation, but nothing happens. The topic remains gold and I have to ask about it again to get the quest update. Can you test it? It happens most, but not all of the times. PC, with all official and unofficial patches. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 20:29, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Nothing in the CS to explain this and never happened to me... I literally have no idea :( --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:33, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

A bit of help with Relmyna?Edit

Hello again, Serc! I was wondering if you had the time to write an exact inventory/spells section for Relmyna Verenim? As you might have noticed, I'm going through an eternal Sandbox hell trying to catalogue all her dialogue and her weird behavior, and will end up with a record-breaking amount of (great) dialogue. Nevertheless, for layout-reasons, I could use the inventory/spells section as soon as you can. Let me know if you do not have the time, but until then - thanks in advance! --Krusty 23:50, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I've added the inventory section here as well as an incomplete spells section. I'm quite ill and simply don't have the physical will to decrypt her scripted spells :P --SerCenKing ^Talk 20:43, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

No worries at all - but thanks anyway! Since she is floating around in my Sandbox, there is really no rush and I can easily test the complex page design with the info you provided. Best wishes for a speedy recovery! Also, you may have noticed that a few things have changed a bit? ;) --Krusty 20:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup, and I'm absolutely in favour... We might also want a "Checked=" param, but that might be pushing it a bit ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:49, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, at the moment, I'm on a spree reading through all the supposedly completed OPRP-pages, trying to make the layout consistent, add authors and re-add the tag to the pages that are far from complete - and I tend to agree; a "Checked=" param would be the best solution. Still, if we choose that solution the tag would be re-added to ALL Place-pages, unless of course, we keep the "Checked=" param hidden, so the tag disappears when walkthroughs are added? Nevertheless, a major news update for the CP is in the works, as we still have to figure out exactly how the checking procedure should be executed. Any suggestions from you are more than welcome - and you can always follow my progress and edit summaries here. Let me know if you disagree with any of my decisions - after all, you are my mentor! ;) --Krusty 22:01, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Hahaha sure! I think we can keep the "Checked=" param and the whole tag hidden - after all, only those who know about the project will be looking for it. --SerCenKing ^Talk 22:10, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh, by the way - do you have a complete list of your additions to the OPRP? Reading through Page Histories for the walkthrough authors gets tedious after a while... --Krusty 22:57, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Info for SI ones can be found here and for Ayleid ruins and Necromancer dungeons here. Also, all of the Stirk places as well as Smuggler's Cave and a few others I can't recall atm. Hope this helps! --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:56, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

(←) Thanks a lot! Hope you are feeling better today. Btw, I have looked all over the Wiki, trying to find an explanation as to why nearly all Sewer pages (and corresponding places like The Old Way that is accessed from Sewers) lack an introductory image in the upper left corner. Do you know anything?

Yeah, that's always annoyed me as well. I suppose its because they don't have an "exterior" proper, although I absolutely agree to an image showing the entrance. --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:11, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Definitely agreed; the images might be dreadful to take and a bore to look at, but the pages looks clumsy and uninteresting without them - we might wanna go for some interesting exterior shots, but "interesting" is a hard thing to come by in the sewer system. --Krusty 13:19, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Ow! Stop nudging me in IRC, Krusty! There's no conspiracy here, it's just a case of "What image should go there?" The image in the top left is usually - 99% - an image of the exterior of the area in question. With the sewers, most of them don't have any kind of exterior so the image has usually been left blank. I've had similar problems in Tamriel Rebuilt, which is why I've ended up with awful images like the one on Unknown Grotto.

The best solution is probably to take a representative internal image and use that in the "main" place, although even that's a tricky task given that the sewers are all pretty standard. rpeh •T•C•E• 02:33, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I recall talking to you about this for Stirk rpeh, and I'd say the Vassa image is pretty good. Of course, I doubt sewers will be equally interesting... The best deal is probably to get both an entrance shot and a representative shot and choose the best one, without any specific guidelines. After all, there aren't that many sewer pages. --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:12, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I'd prefer a few less interesting shots than the emptiness currently on display. Also, I could really use a few images for my revamp of The Old Way as allI have is this. Besides the boring introductory image, an image of the final large room of The Lost Catacombs and, especially, an image describing Hall of Epochs, complete with statue, two Ayleid Guardians and all that. Pretty please and with sugar on top? :) --Krusty 12:33, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Hey Jules, I ain't your Mr. Wolf ;) Joking aside, I'm having problems with OB - getting crashes and the like so I don't know if I'll be able to get you a shot :( --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:54, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh... I thought you "solved problems" :D Nevermind, I still have a lot of work to do on the page (Hall of Epochs is rather complicated) and I can use that horrormovie-like image for inspiration until more images are available - the quest page could use them as well. I might slap on a NeedsImage-tag when I launch it. --Krusty 12:58, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Problem at Lost HistoriesEdit

I just noticed that here, the blood price stages are the same ones with those of Ahdarji's Heirloom. Can you check the CS to find the right ones? --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 20:54, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Errr, what do you mean "right ones"? 60, 61 and 65 are the correct stages... --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:49, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Ahhh I just got what you meant! It appears to be an dev error, the stage really is the same as the one for Adharji's Heirloom. Just stick a note on the page. --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:52, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 21:54, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) When you kill one of those NPCs it "becomes" a different quest. Notice the TG06Atonement and TG06BloodPrice --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 22:03, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Emmm, yeah, but that's not the point. The point is that Stage 61 of TG06BloodPrice is the same as Stage 61 of TG04BloodPrice, which is obviously a mistake. --SerCenKing ^Talk 22:14, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Wtf? You typed 61 but it shows 60. I'm confused now. What happened? Edit: And now it doesn't. Weird.--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 22:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

_{(yet another)}(edit conflict) Yes I got it few secs ago, the stage is not the same but its wrong. I believe it is an in-game bug since there are many of these wrong texts in thieves guild quests but I don't know for sure because I never went through that stage. --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 22:32, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Albino: it's because I changed it literally 2 secs later because I realized it was wrong.

Wizy: yeah - that's what I figured out before you posted. --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:46, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

OPRP thoughts?Edit

Hey SerC! As you have seen, I’m slowly moving through the new and very useful Category listing supposedly “completed” OPRP pages; simply to add the authors, make a consistent layout and correct obvious mistakes – and of course, to re-add the tag to pages I think is “incomplete” based on the things that you, as my mentor, taught me. It will take a while, but I hope you agree with my decisions; otherwise, just let me know. As of now, the new and better tag includes a “writtenby” param, and a hidden “checkedby” param as well. Obviously, the checkedby param needs to be visible as well, even if the tag rightfully disappears from the page when the walkthroughs have been added. When a page have been checked by another editor than the author, the page lands in this Category, and, in the style of the OBNPCRP, can be considered “complete” unless someone objects. So far so good, BUT:

What exactly is required when “checking” a page? When we add the walkthroughs, they are always written from the game (I know you double-check certain things in the CS), and as such, is checked in-game. It is obvious that the project will NEVER be finished if other users will have to run through the cave and follow the walkthroughs, so my suggestion is that a mere “read-through” is enough; by this I mean that an editor reads the walkthroughs and compares them to the maps, checking that text and map follows each other and corrects confusion and possible mistakes, then marks the page as Checked. This method can cause a few problems, but that is why we have the Final Preview Cat. I wanted to hear your opinion, as you probably used some kind of method when you checked the pages for Fort Facian, Crayfish Cave and Vanua (in theory, you could mark all three as Checked). Any suggestions? Additions? Opinions on this new take on the OPRP? All the best from DK. --Krusty 08:09, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I like all the new changes - I'm hoping it's going to revitalise the project a bit. I'm also absolutely in favour of doing a simple checking process: literally just a read through, checking with the map. If there some bits which are written in such a fashion that it is unclear, the checker can either post on the writer's talk page or check for himself in-game. To answer your question on my checking, I did exactly what I've said above, just going through using the map as guidance. I'll mark those walkthroughs as checked :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:56, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant - and it looks like everything works like a charm and the checked pages land in the Final Review Cat as expected. :) I'm not really doing any checking at this stage, as it seems more important to get the project up to date and discover incomplete pages. Once I'm done, I'll write something for the CP and advertise a bit for the project - next up, I'll try and write a few additional guidelines, simply to describe what is expected from the walkthroughs, how to fill out the new tag and so on. After reading through the completed pages from A to F, I realize that we are all different writers, with different preferences; Some writers like to describe how to defeat enemies easily, others prefer walkthroughs the "old-fashion-way" and so on, and I don't think that is a problem. As long as the text is informative and helpful - and the text and the map follows each other to the letter without too much rambling - a few extra tips here and there only adds a bit of spice. In short, as long as we have the final review, we can do no wrong. In my honest opinion, we should aim to work the project in a "less strict" manner, so more contributors will be attracted to it, and having three Categories will definitely help with that; at least I hope so. Final question is: What to do about incomplete maps? I have added a cleanup-tag to a few, but I'm not sure that is the way to go - also, when a map shows something that is not there, who should I confront? --Krusty 22:38, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Just to let you know, Emoboy64 have joined the project as a checker for written walkthroughs. :) --Krusty 23:15, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Golden Saints FinishedEdit

Check out this message, I'd like your opinion. ~ Dwarfmp 03:20, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Oops :(Edit

Sorry about that. I somehow thought hat rpeh had suggested doing this on the golden saint page and you'd said to try it out on OB:Vampires. Looking back through, I don't know why I thought that but...--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 15:18, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

No harm done. I'm not against the idea in general but it kind of messes up the text when the images go to the left. Also, I still need to add some images, so at the very least we can do that once the page is fully done. --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:27, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

XedilianEdit

Hey SerC! As promised, I took a good long look at the page for Xedilian while I was there checking the adventurers; the walkthrough is spot-on with two minor exceptions - I could correct them myself, but I hope you can double-check my observations in the CS, just to make sure:

• In the first zone, the two Hunger Statues (K) will not shoot at you during your first run through the zone; they are only active when they shoot fire at the two adventurers later in the quest, depending on your choice.
• It should probably be mentioned that reaching the boss Urn at B in the second zone requires high Acrobatics, as it is located on a ledge - I couldn't reach it, or even see it, no matter how hard I tried.

While the latter correction might be less necessary than the former, I think the info should be added - I will then mark it as checked for the OPRP. --Krusty 14:48, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup for the first one; as for the second one, my year-old notes tell me I somehow jumped up there, possibly using the brazier in the middle of the room, assuming it's there before SE03. --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:55, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

The brazier is there - probably just my limited Acrobatics that held me back - had to dig up an old save for this test. :) --Krusty 14:57, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Cool, I've done the changes :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:11, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Lewin TilwaldEdit

Hey SerC! I'm in Xedilian and have just looked at Lewin and the other adventurers. It seems like he randomly chooses between five sentences when he arrives in the chamber - I heard all of them without even pushing any of the buttons. The other corrections are tested as well - I'm too tired to check if he is saying something when he is imprisoned later on, but it will get done. I added another bit of dialogue I heard, and will test his additional "attack lines" (judging from my dialogue sheet there's about seven of them not yet on the page):

I'll cut you limb by limb!

If it's steel you want, it's steel you'll get!

Agh! No! I can't take much more of this!

No! Please!

I can't die here... not here!

They're everywhere! Get them! Get them!

We're going to die!

This is impossible!

Now, if you could try and take an extra look in the CS, just to check WHAT button must be pushed for him to say the above lines ("No! Please!" is not worth mentioning, though), it would be of great help. As always in the Isles, things are complicated - and this is only the first and easiest of the three adventurers. --Krusty 23:29, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay, this is rather complicated; I'm already unsure about the "five sentences" theory mentioned earlier, but will test it in-depth with all three adventurers in the very near future. I have just checked out how they behave after the quest is finished and they are locked up in the "reception room" of Xedilian - and none of them says anything. This basically calls for some kind "consistent" style when writing the pages, e.g. the five sentences, the number of attack lines, death lines, insanity lines ect ect. Grommok will get the biggest page, but that is only natural. Also, I have added Redirects to all three adventurers as their names appear differently in the quest updates, and there is really no way to find out their full names from the game. I have a few corrections and questions about Xedilian as well, but we'll get to that. --Krusty 00:03, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Right, so I kinda messed up xD This is how it should proceed:

Enter room: "This can't be right... I got a bad feeling about this place. || We should go back, I'm not sure we should be here. || Can we just leave? I don't like the looks of this place. || That thing may be small but it looks mean. Let's get out of here."

Press Mania button: "THIS is one of the "horrid guardians" of which the stories spoke? || By the gods! When will it stop? It could devour us whole! || Agggh! || ...ma-makes no sense...should be d-dead...what...who... || ...huge t-tree... going...going... to k-kill us all... || Nowhere to run.... mad t-tree... must escape... || Going to g-get us... kill us all..."

Press Dementia button: "They're everywhere! Get them! Get them! || We're going to die! || This is impossible!" (Attack)
"Agh! No! I can't take much more of this! || No! Please! || I can't die here... not here!" (When he gets hit)
"I'll cut you limb by limb! || If it's steel you want, it's steel you'll get!" (Power Attacks)

The "||" means it's a different bit, but he should go from one to the other. Alas, I'm still having a hard time understanding if "THIS is..." goes with Mania or Dementia - you might want to test that. In general, the script is so convulted and full of variables I think a second opinion (a.k.a rpeh :P) is needed. --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Late reply, and without any results so far - only one final question before I venture into Xedilian once again; As far as I can tell, there are five "stages" for each room;

• Entering room
• Push bottons become "active".
• Mania Button
• Dementia Button
• Insanity (if adventurer is not dead)

Now, it is just to make sure - but I'm certain that I heard the line "THIS is one of the "horrid guardians" of which the stories spoke?" before pressing any of the buttons, so I was wondering if there is another condition when the push buttons are activated and becomes available? --Krusty 13:29, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

I recall the buttons becoming active once they've reached their destination at the Gnarl (so when they stop walking), I guess I can be wrong though. The dialogue they say before you push a button is just to fill up the silence, not to activate the buttons, I believe. The fact you heard the line "THIS is one of the ..." is because it's the first line he says during that silence, I think, so he'll say it even when pushing the button right as it turns active ~ Dwarfmp 11:50, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Pothole CavernsEdit

Hey SerC! Pothole Caverns proved to be a lot harder to check than I expected; nevertheless, I ended up tweaking the walkthrough an awful lot, but it is still not perfect. Taking the left path first is obviously the way to go (no backtracking at all), so that was the reason. Can you read through it and delete the redundant stuff? By the way, page is checked! :) --Krusty 17:43, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Right! It took me ages to understand why you'd changed the whole walkthrough because both said the same thing :P I'll give it a tweak and thanks for checking. --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:08, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Haha, it basically started with me thinking; there are two paths leading to that big chamber, so let's put on some bullets so both walkthroughs can end up in that chamber. For the most "convinient" path, I put the left path on top - so basically it appears a lot worse than it actually is, although I'll admit being surprised when I clicked the "Diff" button after saving. :) --Krusty 18:24, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Ayleid Ruins CheckingEdit

During the holidays, I plan on going through as many of the written Ayleid ruins as I can - after our experiences with Pothole Caverns, I decided to make a separate thread with my notes, explaining why I didn't mark the walkthroughs as checked. I could tweak them myself, but I know that you will just re-tweak my tweaks - so here we go:

AnutwyllEdit

In zone one, instead of using lockpicks trying to get door G to open, simply jump down from the balcony which will land you in what is currently the "final room" according to the walkthrough - it should be tweaked, as doing it the "other way round" is a much more effective way of exploring the zone; no backtracking, no lockpicking (door G is opened by a push block from the other side) - and natural access to the next zone. Otherwise, no problems. --Krusty 13:46, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

ArpeniaEdit

In the second section of the walkthrough it says: "...you will arrive at a room with an intersection. Take the north-west exit and then head right, following the corridor to a minor loot chest." The north-west exit is actually the backtrack route (you can jump down from the balcony to the second room), so naturally, this path should be mentioned at the very end.

MorandaEdit

Just a link to my tweak --Krusty 20:48, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

To avoid an edit war...Edit

I am bringing up the matter here. Because the effect is not an ability, but an enchantment, it means that you can not raise your Strngth and Endurance higher from the limit that the Necromancer's Amulet puts to you. For example, if you do the glitch with the strongest version, you will not be able to naturally raise your Strength and Endurance higher than 75. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 17:56, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm having a real hard time understanding what you mean. Yes, you take 25 points off Strength and Endurance, but you get all the other bonuses attached. That effectively offsets your Strength and Endurance drops, which is why having a negative effect does not disqualify the item in question from being useful. --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:00, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

I mean that you can't raise your Strength and Endurance more than 75 because of the effect. The effect is not an ability. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 18:14, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Yeah ok, in that case, refer to my comment above about 4 good effects outweighing 2 bad ones. And I can't see the relevance of the effect not being an ability. --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:17, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Not been an ability means:

50-(14+14+14)=8

If the effect was an ability, you would have been able to raise all the effects to their natural maximimum values. It is not which means you lose 50-(14+14+14)=8. You therefore have lost 8 points.

The question here is how much important we will consider the Fortify Magicka effect. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 18:22, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, so again, four good effects are better than two bad ones. --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:24, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

You're seeing it from the wrong angle! Here is what I mean:

The final results are:

Atributes: You permanently lose 22 points.

Skills: You permanently gain 14 points.

Magicka: You permanently gain 130 Magicka.

What wins, 22 Attribute points or 14 Skill points and 130 Magicka? --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 18:34, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Still, you have 2 drops and 4 gains, that means you're better off. If you want to put it another way, you gain 65 Intelligence (130 Magicka), so you're still better off. In any case, the point is that because are some beneficial effects, which for a certain character may be useful. For example I may already have increased my Attributes using Glitches and so the drop doesn't affect me, but a +130 magicka and conjuration sure does. For the fourth time: if there were only negative effects it would be useless, but having some positive ones means the item is not disqualified. --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:38, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

You essentialy say that it depends on the type of character. If you play as a warrior, no way. If you play as a mage, sure. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 18:41, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

More or less, although for example your Warrior may have 150 Strength and Endurance so he still has 100 but OTOH he gets some decent magic stuff. The point is: if it's helpful to some players, it's worth including. --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:43, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. I'll reword BFG's warning a bit to reflect the results. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 18:45, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Fort CuptorEdit

Hey SerC! Me again, with an annoying request; I was checking through Fort Cuptor, and wanted to comment a bit on the walkthroughs;

• The walkthrough for the first zone is pretty bare-bones; maybe we should mention the soul gem and the macabre book lying next to the skeleton of the child? Also, the page simply screams for an image of this exact scenery.
• The second zone walkthrough confused me a bit, so I made a few changes. Still, that last section (beginning with "To further advance in the level..." seems a bit weird as well. The whole underground system seems to exist only if you fall down one of the grates. Admitted, I found the best treasure down there, but it still seems a bit weird. Also, maybe it should be noticed that the gate at F is initially open but will close when you approach it? Ah well, just wanted to point your attention towards the page. All the best! --Krusty 12:18, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, so I tweaked Dark Fissure a bit, but I liked how you'd "turned it upside down". As per Fort Cuptor, if I'm not mistaken this is the third time I try to write that blasted dungeon! ;) Beth really took the piss when designing this one: the second zone is just so complex. Instead of detailing a precise route, which would have taken ages, I tried to give a general overview. Let me know what you think. --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:28, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Worry no more; Fort Cuptor is done and finished! :) As for my corrections on Dark Fissure, sometimes it is easier just to tweak it around while I'm there, instead of trying to explain what I mean on this page. That process is a bit confusing, but hopefully it is okay if I just notify you so you can doublecheck. Both pages looks very good though! :) --Krusty 17:07, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Blood of the Divines GhostEdit

Hey, just wondering if you could check the state of this bug on the CS. On mine it showed up as Alain with a count of two, not Valdemar. Could you check this on this for me? Thanks - Emoboy64 23:05, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm New, how can i help out around here :)Edit

Hey there, I've been playing oblivion for a few years now, and used this wiki for several quests and other problems and thought it was about time I contributed back! So, what can I do to help? I know there general idea of it, but have no idea where to start!

thanks :D Zak

Haze on imagesEdit

Hi. I noticed you edited some images, and put haze on them. My question is, why? To be honest, I think it looks worse, and it loses it in-game feeling. I don't want to be a ****, but, well I just want to point that out. ~ Dwarfmp 13:28, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Hey there. I think you're misunderstand the term here: I'm actually taking haze off ;) See definition. The tool I'm using is called "clarify" and it removes the darkness (I call it haze) that sometimes arises from images. In-game, it is pretty easy to avoid this by using a re-colored white light spell or by positioning oneself so the lighting is better.
The process of removing it doesn't usually alter the image significantly (unless it was really dark) and makes the image clearer, and thus better to display. I fail to see how removing a bit of haze from an outdoor or otherwise bright image causes it to lose in-game feeling. The only image where I might have overdone is this one; although to be fair the haze is caused artificially by a light spell, which means even the original is not a perfect portrayal of the lighting in Brellach.
I can see the point you're making: we strive to document the game world as it is. But there is probably not a single image on the site that has not been in some way altered, especially with regards to clarity/brightness. If you think specific images need tweaking, please feel free to bring them up. --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:01, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Hah, yeah, sorry about that. You're right about the Staada image, what I meant, which is clearly visible on that one, is that images look grainy, which I think looks bad. ~ Dwarfmp 14:06, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I hate that too - it's a result of compressing the jpeg to a decent size after you remove the haze. I'll give it another go and see how it works. --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:10, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I've uploaded another version. That's the best possible without a larger size. It still looks a bit grainy but in thumb and in full view less so. --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:19, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I need help!!!Edit

Hey SerC! I have had Relmyna Verenim floating around in my Sandbox for the longest time, and I really can’t figure out what to do with her; I think her dialogue is brilliant, yet her page is very difficult to finish, due to her being the SI NPC with the biggest amount of dialogue compared to the amount of quests. Recently, me and Dlarsh made an attempt to shorten this section but I’m having second thoughts; if we are going to include all dialogue, we might as well be consistent about it. Can you take a look at it? Note, that I haven’t included your inventory section yet, as I simply have to figure out how to deal with this complex NPC. There is no doubt, that the page will need a whole lot of ghastly and macabre images before it is finished, but what do you think of the content so far? --Krusty 21:51, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Hey there, sorry for the very late reply. I've given it a quick look and I think you've handled the layout and literally tonnes of dialogue very well. I especially like the idea of the quest icons; and Dwarfmp's images sprice up the page nicely. With regards to the inventory I think it would look good just underneath the introduction. --SerCenKing ^Talk 23:33, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, mate. The inventory section will probably go right underneath the quest info like you said; there's really not anything else to do. I like the page as well and I reverted back to the original version which included all her dialogue - easier to remove stuff than add it! I still have to figure out where to put all her greetings and farewells (list) but I actually think most of them will be skipped in this case - if not for anything else, then because I have no idea where and when she will say them. --Krusty 00:40, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Slightly Inaccurate info... at least for meEdit

First let me just say that your site is amazing, and has really helped me out when I get frustrated with this game!

I just completed the quest "Caught in the Hunt" and I'm stockpiling all this awesome armour I found on my kills. However, in the "notes" section of this quest it says that you can use the boat to transport all your items quickly to Bravil. For me, this didn't work. I loaded all my stash into it, but when I arrived in Bravil it was ALL gone. So now I'm taking it all out from a previous save point, leaving it on shore, and coming back to get it in multiple trips (some of this stuff is heavy!)

Just thought you might want to change that note if others have found the same happens to them. Thank goodness I saved it before I activated the boat otherwise I would have had to go and collect it all again.

Thanks again for a great site! — Unsigned comment by 74.13.29.189 (talk) at 18:38 on 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I'll answer this

"The boat can be used to quickly transport all of the items you collected to Bravil. Manually carry everything to the boat and pick it up. Even though you are likely overencumbered, you will be able to use the boat to travel to Bravil."

It meant put all of the items into the boat while you go back into the fort and grab the equipment, when you have all of the stuff you want pick it all up. You can still use the boat while over encumbered and it is therefore an easy way to transfer the loot from the fort to Bravil. --AKB ^Talk 18:43, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Syl finishedEdit

Hi. Just wanted to let you know that I finished Syl in my sandbox. I also updated Thadon's page, so you might want to check that out too. ~ Dwarfmp 10:52, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Something I should add is a link to Krusty's talk page concerning the issue with the Roots of Madness ~ Dwarfmp 11:40, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Construction SetEdit

Hey SerC! Your someone with a respectable knowledge if the construction set and following rpeh's advice here I've come for some guidance, that is, if you don't mind! Two questions: How do I go about finding rumors associated with NPC's? I know how to get the dialogue page up and I've noticed the fact that the dialogue line has an NPC column next to the '#Resp' column, which I presume means thats who said it, but for the life of me, I don't know how to check rumors, so if you could help with that, it would be greatly appreciated. Also on the NPC select screen, next to count, there is a 'users' column, do you know what that is for? Thanks in advance, and I await your (or anybody else's) input on theses questions- Emoboy64 21:25, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Postscript; This is the Oblivion CS i'm talking about by the way.

Rumors are handled a little oddly because they're both topics of conversation when conversing directly with the player as well as random conversation with another NPC...or at least I think that's why, I've never looked into it all that closely. You'll find them in the Dialogue screen on the Conversations tab under the INFOGENERAL Editor ID. You may wanna try reading these topics at TESCS for more info. The NPC column isn't always accurate because it's trying to interpret the conditions listed at the bottom, and sometimes fails. (For example, the Player can't be asked for Rumors, obviously.) The best bet is to look in the Conditions and look for GetIsID, but look for the one that has the Target column set to "no". There are other things like GetIsRace that can control who says what to whom as well.

Users is the number of objects that reference that NPC. Right-click on the NPC and select "Use Info" and the number of objects listed in the top half of that should match the number of Users...at least in Oblivion (the Morrowind CS is infamous for not listing them all, which is really annoying).

PS, I think rpeh's actually done some work on rumors...I have a vague memory of him somehow generating a list that included the specific NPCs...so he might be the one to go back to for this particular subject. I could be misremembering, though, it's a vague memory at best. – Robin Hood↝talk 00:08, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Yup, RH has summarised it pretty well. Alternatively, you can go Edit-->Find Text-->NPC name that is also handy if you want to see if an NPC is mentioned in a quest stage. Also remember to check the dialogue of any relatives they may have (as they may call each other "husband"/"wife") and possibly the surname too. Other than that, you're good to go! :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 19:46, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks to the both of you and sorry I didn't thank you yesterday RH, I missed this in the RC. I'll ask rpeh about that if I get anymore trouble with this. Thanks again to the both of you and hopefully I'll be able to be more helpful on the ONPCRP with this information. - Emoboy64 21:00, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

The Torture Never Stops...Edit

Hey SerC! For the longest time, I have been annoyed by the ton of missing dialogue recorded for Herdir. It appears that the player originally was supposed to drag Kithlan, Muurine, Nelrene and Anya Herrick down to Herdir’s torture chamber – for some supposed torture and a conversation. I suspect that you can see the conversations a bit clearer than me, though (notice that everything in the Sandbox is in the wrong order) – and since we tend to include important missing dialogue, I see absolutely no reason not to give this a shot. Question is; is it possible for you to recreate the four conversations and insert the dialogue from the four "victims"? --Krusty 21:21, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Ah, up and about! ;) Let me elaborate on my plan with this dialogue. I plan on extracting all the sound bites and edit them together as full audio conversations; basically that means NO written text (I have no idea where to put something like that), but only four audio links on Herdir's page, and one link on each of the "victims"' pages. That's the basic plan anyway... ;) --Krusty 11:27, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Yup, that's an excellent idea! I've put everything as a conversation here. You'll need dialogue from the Conversation tab, SE05InterrogateXX topic, of each of the others clearly. Also, check out this: the new page for the SI revamp! ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:40, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Wow, damn good work! Let’s hope the other editors wants to join, then it should be possible to finish the namespace quickly. I’m not sure Dlarsh has access to a PC on a regular basis, which is why he is not very active – but he’ll notice and reply. You should probably post something motivating on the OBNPCRP page as well – don’t bother with the OPRP page, though – unless you want to rewrite all the guidelines! ;) --Krusty 16:02, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

SI OPRPEdit

Well, just wanted to explain some of the OPRP work I’ve been doing on the complex Shivering Isles pages; now, as I mentioned to you a LONG time ago, both prisons are meant to be real walkthroughs, treated like mini-quests and is therefore considerably longer than your average walkthrough. Also, I evolved the project (including Cyrodiil actually) to include background info on the place, if possible, like Cann. The Isles is filled with hints about “what went on there” and I really think it is worth including. NOT as notes (I hate notes!) but in the walkthroughs themselves. I believe it is much more interesting to include “a story”, instead of a cold-hearted walkthrough describing how to get from A to B as quickly as possible. Also, my entire OPRP output works like this; you look on the walkthrough and the map, then SOMETIMES you look at the game – if the walkthroughs and maps are a perfect match and you get EVERYTHING, the page is perfect. I went through Milchar over ten times before I started writing, and while I realize that I’m not overly keen on providing tips on how to defeat enemies, the walkthroughs make sure you get full value for your exploration. That was the basic idea. That being said, I tend to ramble every once in a while –and pages like Gardens of Flesh and Bone are poorly worded, which sometimes happens when you get to deep into the investigation. Still, you will probably catch all of that – but I felt it necessary to explain, that I changed the guidelines slightly to make more interesting and helpful pages, not only in SI, but in Cyrodiil as well. ☺ Good luck and hail to the King! --Krusty 17:38, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh wow. Ok, I'll do my best to write my walkthroughs like that so they're consistent, and I really like the idea of background history in the main text! After I see what I can check from your pages I'll sandbox Xaselm - I've got this idea of making a separate "Experiments" page with a load of images I've got! --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Haha, no need to be scared - I haven't changed THAT much. Its just the very thought of us writing incredibly "loving" NPC pages - and then incredibly "formal" place pages that bothers me; so I added a bit of "love" to the place pages with background info. Oh, and yesterday I was thinking about writing you a message about Xaselm - one of the best places in OB, and I have been saving it just for you (mostly because I don't have the vocabulary to write a truly sadistic page and the place is pretty overwhelming, so it should probably be a team effort). As always, just holler if there is anything I can help you with. In the meantime, I'm struggling with Syl. --Krusty 10:50, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok so I've a bit busy today. As you already noticed, I've checked the Gardens of Flesh & Bone, which was a really good page. I've also corrected Knotty Bramble from notes I found, tell me if anything else is out of place. Lastly, I noticed you haven't checked Xeddefen, were there any specific problems? --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:21, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Hello again! Gardens.. was a nightmare to write, and I ended up unhappy with a lot of the wording, but you definitely improved it and page looks great! Honestly, I haven't done too much place checking in the Isles (yet), but will get to that. One common problem all over the place(s) are the lack of interior images. There's so many unusual - and pretty sights to enjoy and document, so if you decide to visit any of the places, please snap a few! I'll get to the checking part in the very near future! NPCs keep interrupting - e.g. before I even touch Knotty Bramble, I'll make sure to finish Sickly Bernice while I'm there ect ect. It will take a while, but I will get them done! :) --Krusty 13:34, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Just so you know, I started a revamp of Fetid Grove in this sandbox. --Krusty 22:25, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

SI House PagesEdit

Hello again! Ive been reading through tons of SI-pages since yesterday, and I stumbled upon these pages (with the top one being the worst):

• New Sheoth Palace
• Palace of Sheogorath
• House of Mania
• House of Dementia

Now, with the exception of Palace of Sheogorath, all these pages almost deserve a stub-tag. I propose that we dig up some Lore-like info on the Palace, and rewrite the remaining three pages in typical Guild-like fashion. Then we add them to this category. What do you think? --Krusty 10:23, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Yup that sounds good. I'd already added the bottom three to the Places category along with a stores and inns and so on. Atm I'm looking through all of my notes to see if I can check a few of the places you wrote walkthroughs for. --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Images imagesEdit

I see you've uploaded, and probably still uploading as we speak, new SI images. I replaced one you uploaded, the one with Relmyna and the Gatekeeper. Quite confusing that, Krusty had made another file with that image he edited to use on the Relmyna page, and all that... This is sensitive stuff, images, I mean, Krusty likes his images ps3 like, and I am still not sure how images are supposed to look. You have your own way of editing I suppose, and to be honest, I'm not a fan of your images, with all due respect again. I'm just a perfectionist and, as I've done before, whenever I can take a screenshot, I'm likely to replace one you've uploaded. I don't know how you feel about that, but this something we have to discuss cause I don't want any awkwardness etc. To be precise about what I don't like about your images is the sort of unnatural sharpness, I think, on creatures/NPC's, and simply the pose or expression. This is not apparent on your 'places' screenshots at first glance. Basically, I don't think the quality is the best it can get. Do you max out the graphics in the options? Cause I wonder. Sorry if I sound rude, but I need to get this off my chest. ~ Dwarfmp 17:07, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, to be honest, when comparing SerC’s new images to the PS3 version, the PS3 version is still much sharper. I’m sorry, but it is not what I like, it is what I know. It is a fact that the PS3 version was optimized in the graphics/sharpness department and is superior to other versions in that regard. You guys have to download a mod to see stuff that was supposed to be in the horizon, I simply see them in the vanilla version.

That being said, and looking through the history of this image I see confusion, and absolutely no reason to revert Dwarfmp’s image with an almost similar one and I can understand his reasoning. As a matter of fact, I remember reverting to the current version (or something like that), and uploading the graded version for a more interesting thumb (yup, I’ll sacrifice everybody to make a good thumb), so it seems like the history is messed up – maybe we changed the name and I don’t remember – my original plan was to keep this image on the quest page, and keep the other image exclusively for Relmyna’s page., a page me and Dwarfmp collaborated on back in the day. So, to keep up the good spirits, could be agree on a small PM to each other before reverting? That is so much simpler – and, as evident during this discussion, everybody has different references and tastes – we’ll need to respect that, and that is why I’ll PM Dwarfmp before I make any changes from now on. --Krusty 17:49, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

If I can absolutely honest I'm really, really confused. What's this PS3 thing you guys are talking about?? Is it to do with video quality? With regards to this image, I don't remember reverting anything and the file history seems to agree with me :D But seriously, I just saw that it was one of my older images and replaced it. I didn't see the history at all, as I was quite in rush yesterday. I'm happier with the version we have now - I realized I didn't have a light spell but I couldn't be bothered to get one so it came out really washed out. As for the duplication of images, that's probably too much for my brain to handle at the moment ;) I'll let you guys sort that one out!

To reply specifically to Dwarfmp, it's funny you mentioned unnaturalness because of the latest batch I uploaded I think I only edited three or four, all the other are straight from the game, unaltered. Comparing our images, I think the difference is I have HDR enabled and you don't. You seem to work mostly on the brightness/contrast tool, which is why they sometimes come out a bit hazy whereas HDR tends to sharpen the image and improve the lighting. As for pose and expression, the variety of facial expression in OB is not exactly vast, and to be fair I can't see much difference between our images.

In any case, I still think we're making mountains out of molehills with this image business. I don't revert images and clearly if there is specific issue I've always taken it up to the person in question, like I did with rpeh. But the point is this: we shouldn't even need to do this. There is no point in walking on each other's feet and retaking each other's images when both are, frankly, absolutely fine. We all have our ideals of perfection, and I think we should accept that that ideal might not actually be the best one possible. --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:38, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Purely on that one quest image, I don't really like either of them. SerC's version is a little small and the colours a touch cartoonish, but Dwarfmp's version makes it look like the gatekeeper is attacking Relmyna, although the colours are fine. I'll try to take a version of my own just to make things even more complex :) rpeh •T•C•E• 11:26, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

What's a molehill? :P So it is the anti-aliasing, as I expected, that is my problem. I have that maxed with Bloom lightning, which you can't use with HDR. The ps3 sort of image is actually just a high-contrast thing, it's very obvious if you surf the site on a ps3 :P. When you took a break from the wiki, I was still under the impression my images were too dark, so I kept turning the brightness up etc, and then they indeed looked hazy, and I thought they were too bright myself. Now however, I seem to have nailed (I believe) how to edit an image. I use color-fix, saturation add, lightness add, brightness and much more contrast, but I don't do it to an unnatural degree of course. The unnaturality I mentioned from your images is precisely the fact it looks like the image is from a game, it needs a balance of high quality graphics and still look original. Apparently, I seem to have an eye for poses and angles and the like, if I may say so myself. Yes I'm still going on about this, but this is important to me. If the wiki can be improved, it should be. I guess that does come down to personal preference, which is what makes it so sensitive. And trust me, I take a LOT of screenshots, sometimes with barely or no differences, just to pick out the right one. Sorry if I sound like a pain in the ***, but that is how I feel, and since two of my images are featured (yes at least one of yours is featured too as I recall), people seem to agree I know how to do this. Just to remind you, no disrespect is intended, and I'm definitely not looking to start a fight or anything.

To make this sort of discussion easier, I'm just going to ask: is it alright when I replace images you uploaded? ~ Dwarfmp 12:05, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

I have HDR and AA because I can hack it on my graphics card, but in any case, the reason I downsize to 1000x1000 instead of using a full size of 1050x1050 is to blur edges in case there are any jagged ones left. rpeh •T•C•E• 12:10, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Hacking, I see. I don't get it though, I use the 1440x900 resolution in game, the highest possible. I don't see how you can get to 1050. And for some reason, either my program or the image's height is cut down to 899 :/ ~ Dwarfmp 12:22, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Well maybe not hacking. Nvidia cards have an option in the drivers to add AA to any game whether or not it normally supports it. The list of image resolutions also comes from the graphics card, so I get 1680x1050 in the list on my main PC. On my laptop I get 1900x1200 - but the less said about that computer's ability to play Oblivion on anything above 640x480, the better! rpeh •T•C•E• 12:27, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

(outdent) Unfortunately, my graphics card can only take either HDR or AA. I recall playing around with HDR vs Bloom/AA and I think I ended up liking HDR more. In general, I edit the shot as little as I can, so that it reflects the game as much as possible. NPCs and places as they appear in-game are natural, by definition; anything else has a lesser degree of "naturality". The purpose is to document the game, ergo I keep images as faithful to the original as possible, otherwise it defeats the whole point.

Regarding your question, the point I would make is this: I do not own the images I upload and I cannot, and will not, force you to not upload another version provided that there actually a sensible reason. Unfortunately, "I don't like it" isn't. There's quite a list of things I don't like enormously on the wiki, but as it's a community rather than personal site I don't mind. Inevitably different people have different ways of taking images, as they have different ways of editing. As your personal taste is by no means absolute, what I would ask is for you to ask yourself "Is it absolutely, completely, strictly necessary to replace this image?" before going ahead. There are a lot of my old images (basically all those in 600x600 and 720x720) which I want replaced and I would love for you to help me out. However, there are hundreds of other images that need replacing too; and it makes no sense to waste time and effort by treading on each other's feet and replacing images which are absolutely fine. Now, I want to get back to imaging and editing, so please let's settle this. --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:59, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Una ArminaEdit

If you get a deja-vu from the header, no worries - I just wanted to notify you that I revamped Una Armina's page based on all your observations located here. I realize she still has tons of dialogue not documented on the page, but I also think we have to draw the line somewhere - but a table made room for some more dialogue, so there you go. For once, I think that it is inhuman to expect anybody to check the dialogue in-game (please find two Sheogorath-Shaped Amber), so basically, with the exception of the dialogue outside of the table, you have already checked it once. Also, if you feel like writing a little schedule, I just added Hirrus Clutumnus to my Sandbox - due to his stalking nature, it is impossible to write the schedule from the game and I have a feeling it will be different before and during the quest. Meanwhile, I'll correct all of his dialogue (wrote it myself back in the day and have been annoyed by it since then) and get it right this time. --Krusty 10:41, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Sure thang! ;) I'll get to both. Also, I'm starting to figure out the Xedilian adventurers' dialogue with a mix of CS and in-game. I'll sandbox them later and if you could lend a hand that would be great! --SerCenKing ^Talk 11:44, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Haha, sure - let's finish it! You just say the word and I'll return to Kiliban for yet another painful venture into randomness! --Krusty 11:49, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Seems like we worked on Hirrus Clutumnus at the same time! Thanks for adding the schedule; I'll try and merge the smaller parts with the dialogue, just to see how it plays out as a "story". At least NOW it looks like a true quest-related NPC page from the Isles! --Krusty 13:23, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Shivering Isles QuestionsEdit

Okay, this is where I'll ask all the questions that I have kept in store for your return! First of all, we have a ton of Dark Seducer/Golden Saint NPC pages with the note: She does not have a persuasion option available in her dialogue menu. Now, since the NPC pages are HUGE to begin with, wouldn't it be much easier on the eyes if we stick that information on the Dark Seducer / Golden Saints pages? I'd much rather note if some of the named guards actually HAVE a persuasion option... --Krusty 20:30, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, none of the named Dark Seducers or Golden Saints have the persuasion option available. I'll put it on the respective pages. --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:39, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Brilliant! Notes, be gone! Btw, I launched the Fetid Grove revamp; should be quite easy to check, IF you are bored... :D --Krusty 11:09, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do. Atm I'm still figuring out the Xedilian adventurer dialogue. I think I've nailed Syndelius now, although I can't get him to say "Yes. Seems whoever designed this place only meant for us to get hurt." --SerCenKing ^Talk 11:38, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I'll make my way through Xedilian now - in a random attempt to help out. --Krusty 11:43, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

(←) Okay, here comes the next question; unhappy with the incredible amount of text on the NPC pages, we need some action shots. I'll compile the list tonight, along with all my suggestions, but where to put it? An e-mail to you, perhaps? Then maybe you can fit the list into the images section of the SIRP? --Krusty 17:19, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Yup, that sounds cool to me. :) Email them and I'll get them done tomorrow and/or monday. --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:24, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Gotcha. I bet similar lists will pop up in the Places and Quests sections, but I'll try and handle the NPCs for now. Btw, I'm getting ready for Xeddefen (which is why I chose to Sandbox Shelden) and that page is in SERIOUS need of some images... ;) --Krusty 17:28, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I just wanted to mention I have saves throughout the whole main quest, and I'd be happy to take some shots, which should take some load of your shoulders. ~ Dwarfmp 17:58, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good, Dwarfmp! If SerC can get it up and running on the project page, you are, as always, more than welcome to participate! Looking forward to break up the walls of text. --Krusty 18:07, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

To avoid spending too much time transcribing it, I've just emailed you a couple, Dwarfmp. --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:02, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

(←) Here's another one - or a reminder from our IRC convo earlier today: Can you check the conditions for the following lines of dialogue for Shelden:

• Thanks for the help, I suppose. Although you seem to be doing your best to get me killed.
• Well, that was humbling.
• Everything is gone. What a shame.
• It is my home. I... I feel so strange. There's this cold feeling inside of me when I think about what's been done. So cold. I think... I think it might be... sadness? Why would its destruction make me sad?
• Things are coming along nicely here. Soon enough, they'll have no choice but to do everything I say.

Also, if you could doublecheck if he resumes his "old" schedule after the Main Quest, I'd be a happy camper! Thanks in advance! :) --Krusty 19:19, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, here are the conditions:

• It's the "SheldenCutOff" variable from the SE08Xed hidden quest but I can't figure out what the different numbers mean. Try rpeh on this one.
• After you've spoken to him and you're Sheogorath
• Ask him about Passwall before Retaking the Fringe is over (small q: will he always have the "Passwall" dialogue option? If so does he keep on saying the same dialogue as during Through the Fringe of Madness?)
• He has to be in the "Ordered" Fringe and you mustn't have started Rebuilding the Gatekeeper (I think). Also, it's random - either 20% or 80% I'll have to learn how to read GetRandomPercent! ;)

Also, you may have noticed I've corrected the map overlays for Xeddefen and this afternoon I'll take a trip to Cylarne so expect pics! :D --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:06, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, although you only answered 4 out of 5 dialogue lines? Or am I going blind? Also, for me to relaunch Shelden's page (and if you have the save) could you check in-game after the Main Quest - just to see if he actually returns to his old routine/schedule? I'll head back to Xeddefen for the final tweaks according to the new maps. A very annoying question is coming up about Xeddefen before relaunch. Watch these pages! :D --Krusty 14:56, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Haha ok "Everything is gone. What a shame." is the same as "Things are coming along nicely here." except it's not random, and you only hear it once. Unfortunately I don't have a save after the main quest since I'm still playing through after I got the new Steam GOTY version. :( --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:52, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay, whatever you do, KEEP Shelden alive! ;) I'm done updating the Xeddefen page in my Sandbox, and a small perfectionist task for you will hit the Xeddefen thread in a few minutes. Until then, I'll run some tests on Shelden. --Krusty 16:04, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Nevermind, Dlarsh popped into the IRC and helped me check the post-main quest stuff in-game. He resumes his usual routine and says all three Sheogorath-lines, so basically, with the exception of the line It is my home. I... I feel so strange. There's this cold feeling inside of me when I think about what's been done. So cold. I think... I think it might be... sadness? Why would its destruction make me sad?, the page is finished. Oddly, he would only start to reflect on the destroyed town AFTER you initiate Rebuilding the Gatekeeper. The missing line will be added to the Problematic NPCs page in case anybody can figure it out. Over and out. Now, I'll run through Xaselm, just to prepare a little. --Krusty 20:14, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

(←) Hey SerC! I was wondering if you could take a second look here. I just made a few corrections to Dredhwen, but two things annoys me a bit: The "Blindness" section and the Bug Note. Both of them are longer than her schedule and should be shortened. I'm not sure how to do it, though, so I was hoping you could take a quick look. Thanks in advance! --Krusty 12:34, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Yet another question (yep, they're piling up these days) Actually, it's two questions, and simple ones I hope: I think that Felas Sarandas needs some kind of bug description due to his lack of sleep. Also, will he be disabled between Retaking the Fringe and Rebuilding the Gatekeeper? Also, I just revamped the page for unknown Ra'kheran but was forced to add a note and two bugs due to weird behavior. Can you take a look and maybe come up with some determining factors? Thanks! --Krusty 07:54, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Back! Sorry for disappearing for a week, I've been trekking/camping in the Alps and I forgot to leave a notice! Ok, both of the Dredhwen things look like they've been written from in-game so I can't really help you there (couldn't find that "Blindness" thing in the CS). I'll get Felas and Ra'kheran asap :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:29, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I was wondering where you went! For Dredhwen, it is merely a question about shortening both the bug and the blindness-section, so they still make sense. "Blindness" should just be a note, however. New revamps for Felas, Shelden, Ciirta (I'm very proud of that one) and Ra'kheran are up. Ah well, you can just look through the updates on the project page. Remember the Camps section on the same page - if you can't find the time, I can easily do it. ;) --Krusty 09:35, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I'll take a look at them. I saw you're doing Nanette Don, so I just wanted to remind you of this. I'll give it another look in the CS later. I'm adding the camps atm! ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:40, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for reminding me about that old talk page post - I'll make sure to keep all the issues in mind when working my way through the page. Nanette will have to wait a bit, though - I forgot I added Adeo to another Sandbox last evening. Good luck in The Howling Halls; probably the most interesting ruin I have examined for the longest time - and notice, that I added cleanup tags to all three maps. :) --Krusty 11:43, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

(←) Okay, this is a bit embarrassing, since we both agreed that Adeo's dialogue was written and checked, at least that's what the tag says - and I didn't even check her again for the dialogue! Still, the line (DyloraTopic) "She is our commander. She leads us. Without her, we are at a loss. I have done what I can to take her place, but I know I am insufficient. Order has kept her hostage so that she cannot return to us and lead us. If we can free her, she may know how best to defeat them." does NOT appear in the game, or maybe I just can't find it? Can you take a second look at the conditions/packages? --Krusty 12:38, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

You have to be between stages 10 and 30 of the Helpless Army. Quick q: do you aways get the "Where is Dylora?" topic? --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:53, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Yup; "Where is Dylora now" and "What kind of opposition" - no "Dylora"-topic regardless of what I try. --Krusty 12:57, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

OK try entering Pinnacle and then see if it comes up, those two topics should not be visible after you've talked to her the first time. --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:02, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

No dice - she just says; We must find Dylora and free her! - and then exit conversation. She will do that until you free Dylora, then she will talk again - but not about Dylora. --Krusty 13:04, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I'll write the bug desc now, I think I've got it ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:09, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Nice, just add it to my Sandbox. And can you confirm that she loses her essential status at stage 49? --Krusty 13:16, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I've added it to the Adeo page, sorry! Anyway, I can't find a specific reference but she should die of a scripted death??? This is quite confusing. :S --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:24, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Haha, I already realized that this page is a terrible, incomplete mess. Neither Dylora nor Adeo suffer a "scripted death" - they are both putrified at one point, but will both wake up again. After the final showdown at the Font, Adeo will be killable, while Dylora will remain essential. So much work... Let's wait with that for now! :D --Krusty 13:31, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

(←) No day without an annoying question, and once again about dialogue: I just played through The Lady of Paranoia, probably for the 50th time, and checked everything concerning Nelrene. Only problem is – she will ALWAYS greet you with “What do you want?” and NEVER with "You should not be here, Inquisitor. Perhaps you are lost? I have business to attend to. Excuse me." Can you check the usual conditions and see if we have a bug? Thanks! --Krusty 11:57, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Oops, solved this myself a few days ago. :) -- Krusty 11:02, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

XeddefenEdit

Hey SerC! I’ve crawled through Xeddefen a few times now, and it seems like we have a few tweaks to consider; after your escape from the ruin during Retaking the Fringe, the first two zones of Xeddefen will be open to public and will more or less be a destroyed version of the original ruin, unfortunately with a few differences; it will still be crawling with Order and the bridge over the central room in Xeddefen, Fane will be inaccessible due to two iron gates on either side. Also, the hidden wall in the first zone will still be present.

After the Main Quest, when The Fringe is restored to its former glory, we have more differences; first of all, the map-marker for Xedeffen disappears, making it possible to discover Xeddefen twice, the “backdoor to the destroyed version (zone 6) of Xeddefen, Fales will be blocked by a huge statue and the first zone will be open to public, now in its 4th version, as displayed in zone 7, with an oddly placed Weak Potion of Healing near a skeleton. I have a feeling that Gardens of Flesh and Bone can be discovered twice as well, but these thing should be mentioned a bit more clearly on the page. My Sandbox is your Sandbox! Oh, and notice the huh-tag in the second zone; I’m not sure I understand the meaning of that sentence. Also, I tweaked your pre-quest walkthrough for zone 2, because you cannot access it from both doors. --Krusty 10:16, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I didn't really check what happened to the first zones immediately after; as soon as I reach Retaking the Fringe I'll get to it. As for the sentence on the withering moons, it means that the plants are too far up for you to harvest them. I don't know if this is worth mentioning (we'd have to do it on a load of pages) but I did it just in case someone spent hours trying to find all the moons before realizing they're out of reach. ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:21, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I was curious, so I checked it - it is ALMOST the same as before, but it is worth a few sentences explaining the destroyed version of the zones. Maybe as a Note, which is probably appropriate for the map marker and the other stuff as well? Anyway, I'll dig into the quest-related stuff now. ;) --Krusty 10:35, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Just need to add this somewhere in case it is worth mentioning somewhere; both Xeddefen and Gardens of Flesh and Bone can be found "twice", and it will update your "places found" on the Accomplishments Page. Interesting stuff, actually! --Krusty 11:00, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

So, the final task for this nightmarish ruin is: PLANTS! I noticed that the amount of Plants in the Notes section doesn't match the amount listed in the sections. I think the first two zone sections needs to list plants before and during the quest (if there is any difference, of course) and that the Notes section should be longer (along the lines of "during the related quest, two ??? plants and five ??? plants is added") - or something like that. I'll let you make the decision - and the editing! ;) Sandbox is here. Good luck - after that, page is finished. --Krusty 16:18, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Page done and checked - thanks for the help along the way; now I know why I was postponing this ruin. :) --Krusty 17:45, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

New Images Wanted PageEdit

Hey SerC! Just wanted to point your attention towards this page. It will grow tremendously in the next couple of days, so I thought I'd give you the heads up. --Krusty 23:26, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Quick note on Schedule exceptionsEdit

Hey SerC! Just wanted to pass on a quick note about the “exception” for the many worshippers at the Sacellum, before I forget. While I was testing Bolwing yesterday, I found that he didn’t stop praying after The Cold Flame of Agnon (I was copy/pasting your exception from Big Head’s page, out of laziness), but instead stopped the moment you choose if you want to kill Syl or Thadon, thus initiating Ritual of Mania or Dementia. He simply left the Sacellum when the quest initiated – so I went with “between Ritual of Accession and Retaking the Fringe”. In time, we should probably go through all the worshippers and make sure we are consistent, IF my observations are correct of course. ;) --Krusty 15:27, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I think I got confused: it doesn't happen when SE06 and SE07A and SE07B are running, rather than or. That might be the reason why it stops then but I suggest you get a second opinion on this as I'm quite tired today :S Also, I've checked all of the SI place pages you've done and written up all the non-quest-related ones too. Hopefully this week I'll get them all down, although my recent re-discovery of Star Wars Battlefront II is taking time away XD --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:38, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good! I'm crawling through my insane NPCs and I'm halfway through the HARD ones - should be finished with them in a week or something. By the way, when you are going through Pinnacle Rock take a quick note on all the initially locked gates (all of them opened with the usual cyan dots) - I can't decide whether or not these gates belong on the map. I'll leave that up to you. ;) --Krusty 15:48, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Removed a Valid PostEdit

Palonirya at the divine elegance sells the red velvet outfit so why did you remove my note? --Manic 17:52, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok I admit my edit summary was quite cryptic ;) Basically what I meant is that, if I'm interpreting the CS correctly, Palonirya is not guaranteed to sell you one, as her wares are selected at random for a set of upper class clothing. --SerCenKing ^Talk 07:41, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Nanette DonEdit

Okay, this is very confusing, but there’s not much more for me to do with Nanette. The page needs some kind of bug description, although I have no idea what to write. I have now completed everything, added all dialogue and tweaked a whole lot – but your age-old concern (found here) still causes a few problems. I made a post on Rpeh’s talk page here explaining my thoughts and stuff – but you can probably figure out a thing or two as well. As far as I’m concerned, the Xaselm schedule is, if not completely well-written, finished. The lack of food, her strange summoning and the fact that she freezes after that package is activated probably needs a bug note – or two. Still, in-game check is done and page is, as far as I'm concerned, finished – let me know if there’s anything I can do to help. --Krusty 20:34, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Dunroot BurrowEdit

Quick question; the Felldew-Elytra's are listed as "non-respawning" in all the sections - that is incorrect, yes? --Krusty 08:41, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm, to be honest leveled lists are not my strong point. I think they do respawn, just like necromancer or bandit leveled lists respawn but I'm not 100%. --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:59, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I just went through the place with the Main Quest completed, and they were all back and filled with drugs. Still, it's probably a good idea to cross-check it before removing the non-respawning info. --Krusty 13:37, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I guess. Although leveled lists generally do respawn.... but anyway ;) I'll see if I can do Aichan today. --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:42, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Ah, Aichan. Make sure to snap an image of that giant trap-filled room with all the Statues! --Krusty 13:56, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

The FountainheadEdit

Hey SerC! I somehow managed to draft the entire Fountainhead (and I hate Gnarls!) – its all in my Sandbox and I would like you to read through it. As promised, the information is pretty extensive – but on the other hand, writing a walkthrough for that insane place is merely impossible without explaining what’s going on. The idea was to make our esteemed Quest Leader, Dlarsh, read through it as well and pick whatever he can use –and hopefully, we can make the place page and quest page work together somehow. Feel free to tweak the text, but do not cut out too much before I get a hold of Dlarsh. Also, here is a few nice little tasks we (read: you ;) have to do before launch:

• I honestly believe that all three maps should be redone; the map markers looks faded and the maps for the two Pool zones should mark the possible location for Syl or Thadon.
• When reading through the text, consider where this information can be squeezed in:
  • The longer you wait, the more the Gnarls will infect the place, closing doors and Hollowed Stumps.
  • How does the Chrysalis things work? The original page says they can be re-activated every 60 seconds, but that is a lie. Try the CS for info?
  • The remaining Priests will still be alive after the Main Quest, but will not respawn. So basically, the surviving priests will still be hostile when you are supposed to “explore the place peacefully”.
  • The introductory text for the two Pool zones could probably be better; see if you can think of something.
  • The image description for the sole interior image is a bit wrong; that is the plateau where you will find Syl or Thadon. Is an empty plateau relevant?

Anyway, it was a bastard to write, but I hope you like the way I solved the first, hellish zone. Not so much a walkthrough, merely an explanation as to what is going on with some (hopefully helpful) advice. I’ll stay away from the Roots for a bit now – but please, let me hear what you think and tweak all you want. --Krusty 14:27, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Just checking if you forgotten about this? If you don't want to work on it right now, just let me know - then I'll simply launch the entire page (to get it recorded) and add cleanup-tags to all three maps. Also, remember the Nanette Don issue a few threads above. --Krusty 00:08, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, yes I totally didn't see this! ;) I'll take a look today and try to answer as many of those questions as possible. --SerCenKing ^Talk 07:21, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Right, so a few "todays" later, here are a few answers:

• I'll get to work on that. Redoing the whole map would be a bitch, so I'll just go over the faded markers with more colorful versions
  • Ok, I'm not too sure what you mean here. Don't the Gnarls open doors and hollowed stumps? Perhaps I haven't stuck around enough to notivce
  • Hmm, this is a seriously complex script. The "timer" for respawning a gnarl is 30, I don't know if it's seconds or what. It also appears that it checks if the gnarl you spawned before is dead or at least not anywhere near.
  • Yes, that's correct
  • I gave it a go for the Pool of Mania, but honestly, it's quite good as it is
  • I guess a pic with Thadon would be more interesting, I'll see if I can get it + a similar one for Syl

--SerCenKing ^Talk 11:07, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry too much about the maps - they are actually "okay", if not a bit faded here and there. Also, I'm having second thoughts about marking Syl/Thadon - that would force us to explain the complexity of the whole thing in the item list, so I'm not sure! Your choice! :D

• "Evil" Gnarls close the doors and "good" Gnarls open them. When you arrive, it is actually possible to run all the way through to one of the exits - because the Evil Gnarls haven't touched them yet. Also, I have yet to see a good Gnarl "cure" a hollowed stump. I don't think it is possible.
• I'm pretty sure that you have to kill the new Gnarl before the Chrysalis'es will produce another one. Haven't tested it, though.

A complex and mean-spirited one to write - but it feels god to get it out of the way! --Krusty 11:22, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

The Lore of the IslesEdit

Hey SerC! As a follow-up on our discussion about Lore articles for the Isles, I asked Kalis Agea to act as leader of a brand new Lore entry of the SIRP page (the whole talk and links to some some brilliant new SI-Lore pages can be found here). Now, it is a simple matter of setting up the category on the SIRP page and name Kalis leader. I thought you should do it, though –as project leader and everything…. ;) --Krusty 08:09, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Nevermind, I'm going to add the Cat myself so we can get busy. :) --Krusty 11:31, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Yup that's great news! Go ahead with it :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 11:50, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Done - at least as a draft! Can you take a look and see if I did anything wrong (except for alphabetizing). Also, if there are other existing SI Lore pages, they should be added. --Krusty 11:53, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm a glitch noob...Edit

You must be a busy person, so I understand if you don't answer this plea for a while... I own Oblivion for the PC and have a problem with finished quest items that cannot be removed from my pack.

I cannot remove an item from my pack called the "Ring of the Vipereye" I believe I recieved it in a Dark Brotherhood quest. I also cannot equip it. I read up on this site's glitch codes and tried them on my game. they didn't work, although I followed the codes very closely and inserted the correct characters. This is exactly what I wrote: (For removal of the object) "Setquestobject 0006B658 0" exactly, the computer did not recognize it and only skipped a line when I hit enter.

I also have the same problem with the Boots of Springheel Jak, although I can still wear them, I would like to be able to remove them all the same. I cannot find a code for it on this site, and would appreciate it if youo could tell me what it is.

If I am making a mistake, could you please correct me? — Unsigned comment by The Gray Wolf (talk) on 8 July 2011

Welcome BackEdit

Hello my friend! Good to see you back online - hopefully you are totally motivated for the ton of worked referred to as SIRP; we need to finish it before Skyrim, so let's just get going! --Krusty 23:55, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Hey Krusty! Yeah, up until the 28ish I probably won't do much, but then I've got a month of free time so I'm sure to get cranking! --SerCenKing ^Talk 11:02, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

SIRP!!!Edit

Hey SerC! Just a quick notice from the NPC leader! :D Because I’m insane, I’ve decided to go through each and every SI NPC and keep consistent standards on all pages, which basically includes all possible hello’s, greetings and goodbye’s, and add a note if the dialogue does not appear in the game. My “finished” NPC list can be found here – and you may notice that Relmyna is not crossed out yet. She is the most complex NPC (Syl was a walk in the park in comparison) and back when I originally wrote the page there was no SIRP – so she is not yet up to my insane standards. I managed to save some of the dialogue still missing from the page here – and I’ll add it all (including missing dialogue as notes) in the near future based on in-game testing.

Just so you know that some NPCs are still incomplete – and that my SIRP list is “safe” to work from. Not worries, though – I’ve changed tons of “completed” pages already, so Relmyna will pose no problem. For now, just leave it as is – otherwise my personal vendetta will be much harder! :D --Krusty 21:24, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Haha, well have fun! I just checked Relymna and I noticed some dialogue bits were missing but I figured they weren't too important. Still, you're section leader so it's your call on this stuff. Other than that, just let me know if you need anything. --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:52, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Actually, there are a few lines of Relmyna-related dialogue that I just can’t figure out – maybe you can check the exact conditions in the CS:

• "How could this be? No mother should outlive her child. No, never!" (SE02RelmynaSayToCorpse)
• "It's been too long. Come here and hurt me a little." (script notes: "Seductive")
• "You set my blood on fire. Come closer and burn me." (script notes: "Happy and mildly seductive")
• "You wound me, and my heart bleeds with pleasure." (script notes: "Happy, mildly seductive")

I’ve tried everything, but to no avail – I guess the first one is impossible to hear (because you will be talking to Sheo when Relmyna leaves Passwall), but it would be good to get an explanation - and the other ones are just... odd - and missing! Otherwise, I think I have heard all the other dialogue so I’ll just have to sort it by quest and add it to the relevant “chapters”. Thanks in advance! --Krusty 22:01, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Ok, so the first is supposed to be said if she ever stumbles upon the body of the dead Gatekeeper. Now her usual visit package should stop once he dies but there a variety of packages that make her go see him once he's dead, but only if she's in 1000 radius of him. She should do this any time of the day, although she won't repeat it over and over again (condition referring to the dialogue takes care of that). The issue here is whether she ever gets to the Gatekeeper after he's dead at all, you may want to double check that. Another weird thing is that it is in the "Topics" section, which is stuff she says if you ask her, rather than the "Conversation" section, which is stuff she says out loud. That might also explain why you never hear it.

The other three are all in her "Hello" section, which is stuff she says outloud when she sees you. They are all random, so you may hear any of the three, provided your disposition is 70 or higher. To test my theory that dialogue packages work like AI packages, have you ever heard any of these?

"You better have a very good reason to interrupt me!"

"You try my patience. Out with it!"

"Why are you bothering me with that wagging tongue? Do you know how long it would waggle after I rip it from your mouth? I do. Don't tempt me."

--SerCenKing ^Talk 16:15, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, the last three "Hello's" are all in the game and will be included when I return to Relmyna - I'll have to fool around a bit with the Gatekeeper thing though. She is in the Purse 24 hours a day and only leaves for a limited amount of time for some crying. IF I manage to slay him while she is on her way back, maybe I can hit the 1000 radius - I assume the radius doesn't count when she's inside the Purse? As for the disposition dialogue, I'll have to try with some Charm spells or something - she does not have a persuade option as far as I know - which, by the way, should be mentioned somewhere; maybe with the tons of unused dialogue I'm bound to find during my insane spree! By the way, that Greenmote Silo walkthrough is brilliant - I've been wondering how to solve that bastard for ages! :) --Krusty 22:40, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Yup, no persuasion available, I guess you'll have to sneak it in when explaining how to raise her disposition to hear the hellos. Oh and the Silo was a nightmare, spent ages using tfc to figure out the guard routines and devise a comprehensive yet effective path! --SerCenKing ^Talk 23:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Which actually brings us to a rather important question; as of now the Silo page contains (I hope so at least) the best quest-related way to investigate the place; I'm in favor for linking to these things from the quest pages, simply to make Dlarsh's life easier - and navigation easier! I just did the same thing in my Unfinished Business sandbox, as we have much more details on the OPRP and OBNPCRP pages than the quest pages can ever hope to accomplish. It's an idea I consider for all quest pages, in fact! ;) --Krusty 23:11, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. If I remember correctly, at the very beginning we tried to keep quest-related dialogue off NPC pages and on quest pages. As we've decided to overturn that as time went by, it makes sense for us to link to the pages with the detailed info rather than duplicating stuff. So yeah, NPC and Places linking ftw! ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:36, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Cool; I just launched my revamp of the Unfinished Business page - and the Fallen Rock Cave section is much better with a simple link to the detailed walkthrough on the place page - and linking to the dialogue sections on Modryn's page is nice as well. Seems like you've been busy today - I just have a few more "errands" in Cyrodiil, then I will return to the Madgod. :) --Krusty 18:17, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Jastira - unlimited ingredients?Edit

Hey SerC! I wanted to ask you something – I just revamped the demented Jastira Nanus and after the Split quest, something odd happens. She will provide dialogue about some corpse she found and hand you an ingredient – question is, if this is an unlimited resource for these ingredients? Personally, I stopped after gathering ten samples of each (she will say the four lines over and over, in the written order, and hand you a sample) – but if this is unlimited, it should definitely be mentioned on her page + all four ingredient pages. You can find the dialogue and a link to the ingredient on the article. Interesting! ☺ --Krusty 20:56, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, it looks like she's an uber-supplied groceries store XD Her script ensures you hear one after the other, so it looks like she's a very good source of never ending ingredients. --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:07, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Pretty spooky, actually - I'll add it to her page for now; let's keep this discovery in mind for the ingredients pages. While I'm unsure about the importance of unlimited rat meat, I think it's worth a mention on all four articles, just for the sake of completion - a field day for the leveling alchemist too! :) --Krusty 10:15, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

By the way - when you have the time, can you snap an image of Jastira "counting" the disgusting Young Balliwogs in her house? She will do it right after waking up - think that would make a great addition to her page! :) --Krusty 11:35, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Cookie!Edit

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: Nice work on the Ebrocca images! They really brighten up the article. --Legoless 21:39, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Lego! Carrying a camera around sure made the trip through that nightmare of a dungeon a bit more fun! --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:08, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

While you eat your well-deserved cookie, here are some more image requests; in Dire Warren, Subterrane talking a few 4:3 shots “at a distance” of both Alyssa and Traelius would be great, simply to see the environment (maybe a shot of the waterfall as well?). Just a suggestion, though. --Krusty 22:34, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I've taken three shots: Alyssa, Traelius and waterfall. Hope they're what you wanted :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:14, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll add them right away! :) --Krusty 17:17, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Haha, I can't figure out if the image captions are TOO sentimental? What do you think? --Krusty 09:55, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Well they tell the story of the two inhabitants concisely and accurately, so I think they're nice! ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 11:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

FainEdit

Hey SerC – in my failed attempt to actually get some SIRP work done during the weekend, I stumbled across a problem in Fain. It concerns the Cave-In Trap at location G. Either it is broken or it doesn’t exist – in any case, there’s no cave-on to be found, so I haven’t marked the article as checked yet. Can you look into it and mark the map for cleanup if I’m right? Thanks! --Krusty 21:32, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Ok, here we go. The trap itself exists (it's located above the ceiling on top of the pit), however, there is no activator. Usually cave-ins have an area-defined activator, so if you step within x feet all hell breaks loose. None of that here, so no trap. Oh, and the USIP doesn't fix it... Looks like another map heading in the cleanup category ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:23, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Gah, annoying! Not sure what we usually do about this – I can’t remember the name, but I recently visited a ruin where a bug-note stated that “The crumbling bridge at D is broken”, and that it was fixed by the UOP. However, this trap seems to be more or less non-existent, so I'm not sure if it should be marked on the map or not. I’ll point rpeh’s attention to this one as well as the Vitharn thread underneath. ☺ --Krusty 20:21, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

On a similar note, I just remembered this old question, specifically at the bottom of the thread. Another broken cave-in? :) --Krusty 23:05, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Same thing: all the traps are there but there is no activation area, so nothing falls on your head... Quite nice really :P --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:14, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Oh crap. I wonder how many bugged cave-in traps we have missed in the past. Better take a look later on. Unless, of course, it is something you can easily identify from the CS? --Krusty 16:40, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately not, it's a question of going to every single place and checking whether a large green box is present around the trap XD --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:56, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Ah well, I can’t stop posting on your talk page. After a bit of redirecting on talk pages, I think we have some sort of consensus – found here. I tested it on the Fain page. Let me hear what you think! --Krusty 00:14, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

The Vitharn ThreadEdit

Hey SerC! That’s right, two new topics in one night! Just ran through Vitharn and something occurred to me: there are NO ghostly enemies in the second zone. None whatsoever. According to the article there should be a whopping amount of nine ghosts during the related quest, but I can only find a dead one floating in the water near door D. Also, the entire map is confusing – Out is a sealed gate (I’ll have to check it after the quest) and the content list describes it as “leading outside”. I guess the section attempts to list the soldiers attacking Vitharn Bailey, but it is a mess. Can you take an in-depth CS-look at all of this? --Krusty 22:27, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Right, this is really messed up. The door Out is correct in the sense that it does open onto the Bailey and it's where the Fanatics stream out from. However, I'm really confused about the lack of ghosts in the second zone (I just double-checked in-game). I think you're right: they are the Fanatics and Defenders that spawn into the Bailey. The script however is really complex and I got confused about half way through, so you might wanna give rpeh a shout. --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:54, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

AestheticsEdit

I do not wish to invoke your ire when I undid your edit. However, eliminate the quests for a moment in both Oblivion and the expansion. Oblivion is a huge playground filled with art work. Not primitive polygons ala early tomb raider. The vast majority of the game and this wiki is bringing this non quest aspect to the players attention. The quests can easily be done in around 50 hours of game play or less. But the Oblivion world can offer hundreds of hours of additional enjoyment. Like all the books that can be fore. They too aren't relevant, but they are there and the wiki offers them all just for reading pleasure as well as giving the history of the myriad of aspects of the world we are immersed in. Sniffles 22:23, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Please understand that aesthetics are everywhere in Oblivion, and there’s no way we can cover everything. Yep, the amount of detail is incredible, but it doesn’t mean that everything is noteworthy, and the fact that Chuna and Vika are there from the beginning is not really important on the place page. It belongs on the NPC pages. Also, half of your addition was already covered in the Notes section. However, just to make everybody happy, I tweaked the Notes section to include Vika and Chuna (no harm in that), so please stop reverting. --Krusty 22:42, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

??? I honestly don't understand what you're on about. Apart from the fact that I only noticed your revert when you posted here ("ire"???), I can't see how your addition has got anything to do with aesthetics. The first sentence you added to the lead you also then proceeded to add to the notes section, making it not only unnecessary but also redundant. You then added information on Chuna and Vika's placing and their conversation details. This goes on their respective NPC pages, and I've tweaked both to reflect that. Thirdly, as I already said, adding that the central courtyard is accessible is unnecessary and irrelevant to the page: even if the gates where open you still can't go in because the doors themselves are locked. So in fact, the text present on the page atm is incorrect. Fourthly, your comment on acrobatics is also unnecessary, for two reasons. Firstly, because you can get just about anywhere with sufficient acrobatics, and there is no point detailing every instance. And secondly, most importantly, because it serves no friggin purpose: you can't even enter the ruin, you can hardly get back out!

As a more general point, like Krusty said, we do not attempt to document every single little detail Bethesda has placed in Oblivion, otherwise this wiki would just be a narrative of the game. The wiki is here to document places and quests to aid gamers in their experience, not to babysit them in that experience. If you need that much guidance while playing, you're not enjoying the game. Adding unnecessary detail will not improve this wiki. Now, I've gone ahead and done some tweaks to the page, especially regarding this topic. I've condensed the Chuna and Vika info in the exterior info and removed irrelevant stuff. Please don't add it again. --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:01, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

This is in response to SerCenKing, Kitkat and Krusty's comments. It was all from confusion on my part. Compare the format of many Shivering Isles place pages to the clean and spartan of the Oblivion pages. The SI pages had me very confused. Rpeh steered me in the right direction, explaining the lede purpose and content, and SerCenKing further defined the desired format. Much thanks to all. Sniffles 03:35, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

EbroccaEdit

Whoah, Ebrocca is a nightmare! After clowning around editing the article instead of my Sandbox, I made a few strategic changes to the Ebrocca, Masse zone. Poorly worded now, but I’ll fix that. A question popped up, though: what is a “Sheogorath Statue Trap”? If this is a unique trap, it should get a section on Shivering:Traps along with all locations, and the Ebrocca, Masse map should be cleaned up. Luckily, you already took a picture! The stats needed for the traps page are for the CS people, so I hope you are up for the task. --Krusty 15:58, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Also, just to make matters worse; even if there are nine enemies in the zone, no enemies can be found behind L, K and M. I have no idea where they come from, but can you take a look at this phenomenon as well? Additionally, while I’m at it, note that all enemies in Ebrocca initially “behind hidden walls” will seek you out, even with 100% chameleon, just like merchants. I remember asking rpeh about this a long time ago, but I can’t remember the answer. Isn’t this fun? :D --Krusty 16:28, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Not done yet! While we have a pretty confusing Bug Note about the walls near Clanfather Malifant (S, T and U), we also have two switches (cyan dots on map), which will open and close the bar gates (only one out of two gates are displayed on the map, at V) – but as far as I can say, you can never really get back to the previous zone because the buttons will open and close the gates incorrectly, meaning that one gate will always be closed. Definitely worth a mention, simply because I suspect it is a bug and because gamers may wonder what the buttons are for. Once again, a CS-thing – but I’ll keep a save for testing purposes. --Krusty 17:29, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeay! I'm glad it wasn't just me completely confuzzeled by this place. Sniffles 03:39, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I just added some odd stuff on Ebrocca on the discussion page. Sniffles 05:54, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Just for the record, I'll keep it in my Sandbox until we figure out what is going on with the issues above. Page is almost finished, though. Just give me a holler when you return, mr. SerC. --Krusty 22:55, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Hey, SerC- you disappeared quickly yesterday; just wanted to know if you had any discoveries on the Ebrocca questions - and changes to the version in my Sandbox? --Krusty 17:15, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry about that, my internet failed. I'm pretty sure I addressed all of the issues while in IRC however. If you don't mind, I'll let you do the finishing touches on your sandbox, as I have to leave now. I'll be back tomorrow though, as I have a very light day lectures-wise. --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:38, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Since I managed to delete the entire conversation (and somehow my IRC preferences was reset, so no logs), I think it'd be for the best if you could take a second look in the Sandbox. Remember, here are the diff between the original and the "new" version. Sorry! :D -- Krusty 17:44, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

(←) Done :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:03, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

...and launched! Ebrocca be gone! --Krusty 13:28, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

CongratulationsEdit

Congratulations, you now have a new set of shiny buttons -- which you've obviously already been making use of! --Nephele^Talk 15:12, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Nephele! I'll do my best not to let you and the rest of the admin team down :) And yes, I am enjoying the new buttons immensely :P --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:14, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

It's obviously a good idea to make yourself familiar with the new buttons, but might I suggest User:Example as a target, as s?he is more used to it! rpeh •T•C•E• 15:40, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, and you autoblocked my IP, so I couldn't even edit my talk page! :P I had to dust off my IRC. Haha elliot (talk) 15:50, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Haha, I will try to spare innocent users the cold chill of being blocked next time ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 22:30, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

New NPC page?Edit

Hey SerC! I’m afraid we need to make a new NPC page, namely for the SE32VitharnSoldier01 – the one standing closest to the southern gate, who has a whole slew of unique dialogue, including: "Hloval dances a little too close to Sheogorath, if you know what I mean. Those born with stunted magicka shouldn't become priests and healers." I could do most of it, but maybe you could set up the Summary in a Sandbox? Any suggestions for a name? --Krusty 23:27, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm, this is going to be tricky. The problem is that there are 7 other soldiers with exactly the same name but without any special dialogue. Do we want two separate pages, one for the generic NPCs and one for the unique one? If so, what should the titles be? --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:29, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Okay, as far as I can see we have the following unnamed (friendly) citizens in Vitharn:

6x Vitharn Ghost Archer

3x Vitharn Ghost Citizen

3x Vitharn Ghost Reveler

11x Vitharn Ghost Soldier

1x Vitharn Reveler

1x Vitharn Soldier

+ a whole bunch of unfriendly fanatics. In time, we need to make the pages (we have a pages with the test subjects found in Xaselm, so this is "what we do”). In any case, we can always start with the quest-related guy I mentioned, just to have a page for him. Then we can decide if we want to build more soldiers on top, or if we want a Shivering:Vitharn Ghost Solder and/or a Shivering:Vitharn Ghost Soldiers page - or something entirely different. If you can just provide me with his BaseID I can take care of the rest. This entire thing should be added to the SIRP page though - fanatics included! ;) --Krusty 00:30, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Yup, that sounds right. To make it all clearer I've made a list in my sandbox. I'll test whether the Test Subject or the Bandit layout works best for each NPC. The only issue I have with a page called Shivering:Vitharn Ghost Soldiers is that it doesn't reflect the in-game name and is thus a bit misleading. I guess the best way to solve this is to list soldiers like in the Test Subject page, so we have scope to point out his uniqueness. Also, there are two NPCs that are not found in-game and with slightly different names to the other NPCs in their category. Should we get separate pages for them or just stick them into the main page? In any case, I'll get to work on the soldiers. --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:27, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Hello again! I think a good inspiration would be the Blind Moth Priest page, simply for an example of more than “one” header. It will take an unusual amount of redirects and the usual amount of linkable entries, but all in all, I think it is possible. I haven’t had time to look at any of them specifically, but hopefully their schedules are more or less randomly determined – and similar for each “type” of Vitharn citizen. As for the name, good question - I’ll have to think about that. Holler if there’s anything I can do – as you can see, I’m on a Daedric Worshipper-trip, so I’ll be around all day. --Krusty 11:16, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Yup, that's exactly how I've started it in my sandbox. I'll leave you to your daedric craziness ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 11:21, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Vitharn updateEdit

Okay, with the exception of the usual mount of typo’s, Vitharn is now drafted here and it looks decent. I sent a message to Kivan at the same time, so hopefully we can get to the bottom of this in the near future. As of now, I see no point in launching the page as most of the maps needs cleanup anyway – I just don’t know how much cleanup they need, until we figure out exactly what is wrong with the place. For now, its the waiting game. --Krusty 13:51, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Looking good! I'll await Kivan's reply and then get on with checking it and eventually tweaking the maps. --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:29, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Deleting pagesEdit

I see you deleted that "Yoku" page, but I think it was marked for deletion on the 28th at 7pm server time, so didn't you delete it too early? Also, you've deleted a redirect right after you moved it, aren't you supposed to mark it for prod instead? ~ Dwarfmp 00:28, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, if you want to be really nit-picking then yes, I should have waited 19 hours... But honestly the page should probably have been marked for speedy anyway, and I don't think hours are an issue that needs to be obsessed over. Secondly, image redirects are fuzzier, as you could argue they fall under speedy as they are orphaned and are mostly the results of a misnaming, plus they are to a certain extent a copy of the redirected image. In this case, it was more convenient to delete the image immediately because I needed to change the name of another one (Count Cirion --> Count Cirion's Ghost ; then Count Cirion (corpse) --> Count Cirion). --SerCenKing ^Talk 00:37, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry if I sound naggy, I'm just focusing on these admin duties and rules (which I still need to learn), taking them real seriously and avoid making mistakes at all costs (makes me look bad), because maybe I'll be a permanent admin one day. I wasn't sure, and that's why I asked ~ Dwarfmp 00:47, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

S'alright, I know exactly what you mean. However, being admin also means being able to make your own judgement in certain cases. I'm sure we'll both do fine. :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:55, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

In fact, while I know it is an annoying wait, especially if you're "on a roll" with the whole delete-thing, maintaining the 7-day limit is always a good thing. Also, remember to add the date to the summary, e.g. "proposed for deletion 11/11/11". --Krusty 13:10, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

DementiaEdit

Hey SerC! Just wondering if you saw my reply to your question? I replied a few days later, 'cause I got the email through to my phone, but wasn't able to reply until I got home from my sisters house. Anyway, If you saw it already, then dis-regard this. If you are still up for doing the page, let me know please! Thanks - Emoboy64 01:06, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi Emoboy! Sorry, I'd completely missed your reply! I'll see if I have time to finish it, and hope to see you active again after 11/11 :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:55, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Haha, yes, defiantly! The only reason I haven't been active lately, are personal reasons and the fact leaked Skyrim info found its way here. Its wayyy hard to avoid clicking them and ruining the fun of finding things myself. Anywho, If you can't finish it, then I'll do it. If you could let me know before next Friday, that'd be awesome - Emoboy64 18:46, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Unsigned commentsEdit

Hi SerCenKing, I see you are online and have a question for you: how do you add a "previous unsigned comment added by...." to a comment that was not signed? Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge with me! —Daniellibus ^{E • T • C} 13:33, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Just insert {{unsigned|The user's name or IP|The date}}... Without the "nowiki" tags of course! ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:34, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! Seems to have worked - another one for me to store in my copy and paste file! —Daniellibus ^{E • T • C} 13:39, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

If you're looking for a shortcut, {{uns}} works in the same way. --Legoless 13:56, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! —Daniellibus ^{E • T • C} 14:01, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Free UESP?Edit

Hey man.. Can u make a free UESP iPhone/android? It would help me and alot of other people... Ps. Im using iPhone.. — Unsigned comment by 86.52.113.144 (talk) on 8 December 2011

Hey there and sorry for the late reply! If you mean a free UESP app, then I'm sorry but I don't have the required knowledge to create one. In any case, you want to ask Daveh or the community about this sort of stuff. --SerCenKing ^Talk 08:48, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

UESPWiki:Image RequestsEdit

Hey, SerCenKing! Krusty suggested pointing out the new Image Requests page (which was discussed on the CP here) to you, with the suggestion of adding the page to your watchlist if you're interested in being a regular contributor to the page. He also says "Just say 'hi' from me if you don't know him" ...so, hi! :) ABCface^◥ 21:22, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi there, nice to meet you :) Unfortunately I haven't got saves for Rikke, but I'll get round to helping Tullius at some point! Thanks for pointing out the page in any case and happy editing ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 11:29, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

QuestionEdit

I noticed your name keeps popping up for giving users's cookies, just a question, what does it take to get one, I feel I've done quite a bit for the wiki Emzi43 21:23, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Pardon me SerCenKing for answering right away but I think it's alright considering your recent activity. Cookies are given to users by other users who feel that their efforts need to be rewarded. There is nothing in particular that will get you one, it will just be given to you by a user should they feel like it. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 21:28, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying AKB, just wondering Emzi43 08:40, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Welcome back!Edit

Hey Serc! So good to see you again – and in busy-mode as well! Welcome back! --Krusty (talk) 21:20, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

Hey Krusty! Yeah it feels pretty good to be back editing!! I'll probably concentrate on SI and Skyrim Thieves Guild but if you need anything, just gimme a shout. --SerCenKing (talk) 23:38, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

And now re-welcome back! :) Haven't seen your name in RC in a long time! – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 03:11, 27 March 2015 (GMT)

Hey RH! Almost two years on the dot! ;) I've got a bit of free time from uni so I'm hoping to finish a few bits and bobs. --SerCenKing (talk) 10:55, 27 March 2015 (GMT)

Great to see some activity in the Shivering namespace, welcome back :) —Legoless (talk) 11:47, 27 March 2015 (GMT)

ImagesEdit

Hey SerCenKing! I've noticed that some of the images you've recently uploaded are overly bright and slightly washed out. This concerns either an NPC's features or a background. It looks like you use a spell to light a scene and it distorts the colors. Just wanted to point it out.   ~Shuryard (talk) 13:51, 28 March 2015 (GMT)

Hey there! Yeah I thought so too, tbf. Been a long time since I took pics so I am very rusty. I do use a recolored light spell for interiors because sometimes they're just too dark and I can't get a bright enough version. If I have time, which is unlikely, I may give it another go. Otherwise feel free to upload improved versions. My main concern was replacing the God awful 600x600 pics that were there before. Can't see how I thought they were good at the time. Oh and Varulae is completely vanilla - it's the just the sunshine. --SerCenKing (talk) 23:51, 28 March 2015 (GMT)

It may be bloom lighting. Enabling HDR instead might help. —Legoless (talk) 19:07, 29 March 2015 (GMT)

I've got HDR on, I'm not that rusty ;-) --SerCenKing (talk) 19:11, 29 March 2015 (GMT)

Hello!Edit

Nice to see you around again! —Legoless (talk) 17:00, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Hi Legoless - thanks for the message, it has been a while indeed! I've picked up Oblivion and Skyrim again, so I'll be doing bits and bobs on the wiki. --SerCenKing (talk) 12:30, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Question regarding a character's dialogueEdit

Hi, recently I've been checking out Armion's page from the Beyond Skyrim: Bruma mod, as he is particularly favourable for me, and have come across some quoted dialogue that I haven't seen in game, or managed to trigger, regarding the white-gold concordat up to the final part of the paragraph discussing it. I apologise for the presumption that it was you who quoted it but I was curious as to where you got this info? Also, thank you for your beautiful editing skills and commitment to usep! Chubbywubby (talk) 22:12, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi, no need to apologise - it's a good spot actually! All the dialogue on the Armion page was extracted from the CK but I double-checked in-game and you're right: that dialogue branch doesn't open up properly post Thalmor question. Bizarrely I can't seem to get quest scripts to open so I can't check for sure, but it looks like it's a bug with the dialogue "quest" that governs the branches. I'll add a bugs section to the page, thanks for spotting! --SerCenKing (talk) 17:14, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

DiscordEdit

Hey! This was part of my comment on the community portal, but I feel like it would be best as a separate conversation :) Would you be willing to join the Discord? It has been the focus for the namespace overhaul to iron out issues and identify problems or oversights. In addition, since several of the mods are relatively new and may need updates to bring them more into the gamespace standards for UESP. It would help immensely to have someone who is very familiar with the mod in question to bounce clarifications off of. :) If not, that's fine, just an offer. And if you are already in Discord, I'd love to know your username! Thanks! Jeancey (talk) 22:31, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Hey there! I am not on Discord currently - not really one for messaging apps/social media I'm afraid. I'll give it some thought but I'm also fairly erratic in my editing/presence so that might not help too much. Thanks for offer :) --SerCenKing (talk) 12:44, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Questions regarding recent changesEdit

Hey there SerCenKing! :) I absolutely appreciate the hard work and dedication you've done on UESP, and it's great to see more 'oldschool' contributors still active on this site! It's not too long since I decided to become a more active editor/participant and Recent Changes monitor, and I remember seeing your name on Oblivion talk pages and such back to about 15 years ago or so!

Anyway, I'm sending you a message since I just noticed you updated the Apostle page, and noticed you also leaving a short summary on the edits you've done. I think it's best to ask you some things before I make changes, which would just lead to more friction and such.

• First on the LL1 list, you wrote: the LL1 list is quite complicated in terms of numbers and % depending on level, so keeping simple. But the percentages for an individual potion should all simply be 19% (18.75%), right? The chances of no potions spawning would first be 75%, and then all LL0 Restore Potion variety lists (weak/normal/strong) would give another 25% of no potions spawning. So that adds up to 19% of up to three potions spawning (19% per individual potion), correct? Then why not simply add that information? That sounds pretty simple to me, and personally, is pretty valuable information I'd like to see on the page as well. Which is the entire idea of having a wikipedia in the first place. Yes, I could look it up in the CSlist every time, but I find this more simple. And frankly, I think I can't be the only one who finds this valuable on the page. If I fight an NPC, I want to know the chances of them carrying a certain item, since I like to play my fights fair (mirroring my abilities/items/spells and such), but that's just me.
• On the blade/blunt skill, you wrote: Removed note on class as there is no chance of a blunt weapon being around unless you drop it. You're correct on that, even though opponents can also disarm your weapon. Yes, even then the chances of them going for a better weapon is very slim, but there are so many different mods which change these combat aspects, that I personally still think it is valuable information. But beyond that, another reason why I added this information is that I'd like to archive all listing errors/oversights the developers made, which I think is another valuable reason UESP pages are there for. I get why these oversights were made, since the devs probably picked out a NPC Class name which would fit the NPC best, without taking into consideration the exact game mechanics of how skill leveling works. The NPC class system tries to generalize a game mechanic by name, which requires a more detailed and careful approach to make the NPC match his/her combat/magic/stealth skills, spells and items. And beyond that, perhaps even all the way in late 2023, some future modders may still be interested in trying to fix it, no matter how slim that chance may be.
• And on the previous note: I spent the last months making so many changes to many different NPCs (Marauders and Apostles being just two of them), that it would take you or anyone else many days, even weeks to change them to the exact same format you'd like to see. Also, Legoless moved an edit I made on Havilstein_Hoar-Blood towards the Note section, if you'd rather see that as an option. See my contributions page for more info on the other NPC changes I've made.

You were absolutely right on the other changes you've made btw. It's great of you to check them out, it's a bit embarrassing to find out I made certain mistakes since I try to do my work with the uttermost care. However, that's part of being human right?

Btw, I hope this is not a weird place for me to send you a message. I figured this is just public knowledge since it pertains towards asking questions and receiving answers on topics related to the wiki. And I'm not even sure where to send you or anyone a PM without leaving UESP anyway...

Thanks for reading!--C0rTeZ48 (talk) 23:44, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi C0rTeZ! Thanks for your message, and thanks also for all the edits you've been doing in Oblivion namespace for a while now. I'm not very active anymore these days, but I have a lot of OB pages in my watchlist, so I've been seeing your name pop up quite a lot and with good edits to boot. I'm also still a Patroller, so a combination of Watchlist + the Unpatrolled edits page leads me to focus more on OB edits these days, including yours.

On the Apostle page, indeed - I left a longer edit summary to try to explain more about the changes given the editing on the Marauder page earlier in the month. I've tried to address your points below but the preface is my Construction Set knowledge can be a bit rusty, so I'm very happy to be told I've gotten something wrong if that's the case. It is the beauty of a wiki after all, that we spot and fix each other's mistakes at times - so nothing to be embarrassed about at all! For example, I'd typo'ed 8% instead of 7% on Marauder blades, and completely missed the single LL2 list for enchanted bows... Rusty, as I said, but luckily you were on hand to fix it and give our readers the correct information. Anyhow:

• My take (though probability maths never was my strongest suit) is that, because at different levels you have different counts and the "Calculate for each item in count" box is ticked, the percentage of at least 1 potion appearing is not always 19%. So at level 1 you only have 1 possible potion and the percentage is indeed 19%. At level 3 and 4 however, you have 2 counts. Which means that instead of the usual 3 outcomes (No LL1 list at all = 75%; LL1 list but no potion = 6.25%; LL1 list and potion = 18.75%) you now have a 3x3 matrix of 9 potential outcomes, a bit like rolling two dice gives you a 6x6 matrix of number combinations. Of those 9, one results in 2 potions, four result in no potions and five result in at least 1 potion (four 1 potion + one 2 potions). So the probability of at least one potion appearing, if I've done my maths right, is around 33% (based on the probability of at least 1 level list appearing and then that leveled list returning a potion). Or in any case, it's definitely higher than when there's only 1 count, as the Chance None probabilities stay the same. Then levels 5 to 6 it goes back to 19% for at least one potion, as the count returns to 1 (but a 'better' potion). Now of course you're correct that for each individual potion, the probability remains 19%. I'd thought getting the percentage of at least one was more important, but perhaps a reasonable compromise is we keep the 19% per potion and then mention that the number of potions and the likelihood of getting at least one potion changes as you level?

• I get where you're coming from, and generally I think your edits highlighting oversights or discrepancies that give the player a leg up are very useful. There is however a relevancy point to my mind: to be worthy of inclusion the tip must be something that the player can reasonably expect to use/face. If the Apostles or the other Zealots in the dungeon had blunt weapons, or if there were blunt weapons lying around, then maybe. I'm also not sure their Blade skill can ever get high enough that they can disarm you. And even then, they'd have to first disarm you, then you would have to pick another weapon, disarm them and then they'd have to pick up the blunt weapon you'd dropped rather than their dagger. It just feels like such a minuscule likelihood of happening that while theoretically possible, it's just not practically useful and thus relevant to include. Otherwise the wiki would be full of such information and the useful tips would get totally lost.

• I didn't quite understand your first point, as the question for me is not so much format but rather: (a) whether to include the information at all (b) if so, checking it's accurate. That's just the "job" of Patrollers. In general I'd agree with Legoless that that the kind of tidbit is better suited to the Notes section that to the main body of the article, as it's a sidenote rather than a key piece of information. FWIW, I would be minded to remove the note from Havilstein's page too in that it's extremely unlikely he'll ever have the chance to pick up a blade unless you drop one. Though in this case at least he may be able to disarm you. Although again, requires such a minute chain of events I'm not sure it's relevant enough to be worthy of inclusion.

In any case, hope this has helped clear things up and very happy to discuss further. --SerCenKing (talk) 18:59, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Great of you to check the OB changes I and others have made! And thank you for your open mind to be willing to discuss, we all get things wrong from time to time. I'm Dutch, so English grammar isn't my strongest point ;)

• On your first point: I get where you are coming from as well, but I think you're trying to complicate things too much here. As you said later on in your point, the way the list really works is that the average chances of individual potions spawning will always remain at 19%. And frankly put: I think your math is a little bit wrong here as well (the chances of at least one potion spawning can never be 33%, since it's never higher than 18.75%). The essential mistake I think you're making is the difference between (average) spawn chances, and the average potions. I'm only trying to calculate the former here, not the latter, since that makes things too complicated between NPC levels.

Let me take level 3 or 4 as an example like you did: the average chances of no potions spawning will always remain at exactly 81.25%, and in this case due to the list having the 'Alllvl' byte as a 0, that means the list is leveled. That means if the NPC is lvl 3 or 4, it will always choose the highest (in this case item lvl 3) list. But even if the 'Alllvl' byte was a 1, the averages would still be 18.75% per potion. In that case (which this list is not), the average chances of one potion spawning would be 9.375%, and the average chances of two spawning would also be 9.375%. But that's simply making it too complicated for the reader to understand. Therefore, an individual average chance of 18.75% (19%) per potion is always correct. However, at first I was not entirely sure btw how the item lvl 3 listing f.e. practically worked: either taking an 'all vs non' approach (so either an average 18.75% of 2 potions), or an 'average' approach (average of 18.75% per potion), but it does not matter, since the averages will always be the same. After looking at the LL1NPCWeaponArrow100 list of a Marauder Archer, I'm pretty sure it's the latter (the average potion chances). So, as you may have noticed until now, due to the 'Alllvl=0' byte, this list is leveled in that it will always choose the individual list of the highest level. That means that f.e. in lvl 15+, the average of potions spawning will still be 18.75%, but it will be 18.75% of up to 3 (0-3) potions spawning, OR 81.25% of 0 potions spawning. Or perhaps to put it in a way to make you understand in a listing average potions type of way: a 25% chance that 2.25 potions spawn on average, so 0.5625 potions on average (which you can also get by multiplying .1875x3).

So long story short, the way this particular LL1 list works, is that it first chooses the highest LL0 list for the NPC's level, not the player level if I'm correct (which is 25%), and then determines yet another 75% on average per potion (18.75%). Btw, no problem by making an error here, the listing is pretty confusing and difficult to wrap your head around. I had to look it over a couple of times before I was fully confident I understood it myself ;)

• So on this point, perhaps we can make an in-between agreement on that we do away with the last part of the weapon skills (that the player can't reasonably expect disarmament, and them picking up a matched skill weapon), but keep the former (since that part is still relevant due to what the player can reasonably expect, and how the devs made a mistmatch/oversight of the NPCs)? So for example for the Apostles page, we include the following: Unfortunately for the Apostles, due to their Heretic Mage class, their Blade skill remains at novice level, even at very high player levels. Their Blunt level will be quite high however. And then exclude the following: Be sure therefore that they do not pick up a blunt weapon, should you disarm them.?

• Well, all I meant by format is the way a page has a pre-determined make-up/lay-out. As in, what pieces of information should go where on the page.

Thank you for reading, looking forward to your reply! C0rTeZ48 (talk) 09:12, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Oh and btw, one more addition in case you are wondering: if I'm correct, the 'Each' paramater in a list determines whether any/all Item lvl lists in a list are taken into account when picking one randomly. It does not determine whether the NPC literally gets a single item from every Item lvl type in that list (that's what the 'Useall' parameter is for). However, I don't think I've ever seen a list which had the 'Each' parameter at 0. C0rTeZ48 (talk) 09:25, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, and no worries at all on the English. On the two first points

• So I think we both agree to keep the 19% individual potion spawn chance and there is no debate there. But I don't think "the chances of at least one potion spawning can never be 33%, since it's never higher than 18.75%" is right. The "Calculate for all levels <= PC's level" box being unticked means the CS will choose the closest item(s) to the NPC's level (but below the level). The "Calculate for each item in count" box being ticked means the CS will individually calculate each of the relevant items. FYI - examples of lists with this box unticked include quest rewards.

Now the individual chance of each potion is never higher than 18.75% regardless of count, as each count recalculation is independent, as per above. But at certain levels (3-4 as you mentioned, or 7-9, 12-13 and 15+) the LL0 list count is more than one. That means there is a chance of more than one LL0 list being chosen, and thus of more than one potion appearing, given the latter is conditional on the former. That means you have a higher percentage of at least one potion spawning. At least being the crucial bit, because it also includes the outcome in which e.g. two LL0 lists appear (and thus two potions potentially appear).

It's a bit like the probability of rolling a 6 with dice. With a single die it's 1/6. With two dice the probability of rolling at least one 6 is 11/36: there are 10 possible combinations with a single six and 1 possible combination with two sixes. You'll see it's almost twice the likelihood of rolling a 6 (a.k.a. at least one 6) on a single die, even though the probability of each individual die showing a 6 is still 1/6.

So in our example, at levels 3-4, you have 9 possible combinations of the LL0 lists, as I mentioned above. Boiling it down to three "overall outcomes" (no potions, one potion, two potions) gives you the following. 4/9 outcomes with no potions, combined probability of 66.02%; 4/9 outcomes with one potion, combined probability of 30.47%; 1/9 outcome with two potions, probability of 3.52%. The probability of at least one potion is the sum of the last two, so 33.98%.

Of course this then changes when you get e.g. 3 leveled lists. In any case, I will amend the page in line with my earlier suggestion, as it's too complicated to fully explain the various scenarios.

• Agree with that proposal, as long as the skill which is unexpectedly low matches with the weapon they're carrying. So for example for Ra'kheran I wouldn't include it, since there's only a small window where he has a dagger and attacking him would mess up the quest anyway. But I'll add it back to the Apostle and Luminary Kaz pages.

• Understood. In that case, I'd say putting them in the Notes section would be most appropriate.

--SerCenKing (talk) 20:14, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry SerCenKing, but will all respect, this is getting out of hand. I just don't know where to start from here. I will use your quotes and more sources to back up my claims in order to try to get it over. I will use a bulleted list to make it easier to read. Please also use sources to back up yours.

• First of, you claim: But at certain levels (3-4 as you mentioned, or 7-9, 12-13 and 15+) the LL0 list count is more than one. That means there is a chance of more than one LL0 list being chosen, and thus of more than one potion appearing, given the latter is conditional on the former. That means you have a higher percentage of at least one potion spawning. At least being the crucial bit, because it also includes the outcome in which e.g. two LL0 lists appear (and thus two potions potentially appear). And: Of course this then changes when you get e.g. 3 leveled lists. So the following is literally from the leveled list page, and goes directly against your interpretation that 'more than one LL0 list may be chosen': "Standard" behavior is for a list to contain one selection from its list; it picks exactly one object with uniform randomness and returns the quantity it has associated with that object, ignoring objects with an associated level greater than the level specified in the request or less than the greatest object level it can return based on its contents, subject to the previous constraint. For example, a list that contains an item with item level 1, two items with item level 2, and 1 item with item level 4, being consulted relative to a player of level 3, will randomly select one of the two items with item level 2 - the item level 4 item has an item level that is higher than the player's level, and the item level 1 item has an item level that is lower than the greatest item level in the list after that comparison, so both are ignored. Do want to point out though, that since the lvl 1 item is not counted here, this must be a list where Alllvl=0. If you disagree, please show me a source where you got that more than one LL0 list may be chosen. Or please try to address your point more clearly since the way you mentioned it may be confusing.
• Second, and probably more importantly: if you look at a random Apostle page in the cslist (f.e.: 0x00054ca1), you see that the LL1NPCPotionRestoreHealthBandit (0x0000aa65) list has Item Count as merely 1. This means that merely only one LL0 list is picked, never 2 or more (in this case at least).
• Third, I also want to address another specific point you made here: That means there is a chance of more than one LL0 list being chosen, and thus of more than one potion appearing, given the latter is conditional on the former. More than one potion can already appear from every LL0 list with an Item Count of 2+. It's not necessary per se that more than one LL0 list has to be chosen in order to have more than one potion appearing.
• Fourth, this can also be made more clear using 100% chance percentages: So let's say the chances of every potion spawning is 100%, rather than 18.75%. Then by your reasoning, at lvl 3-4, with multiple LL0 lists being chosen, that would lead to a guaranteed 3 potions. Which even leads me to ask you: how many LL0 lists can be chosen at maximum? Since the ILevItemLevelDifferenceMax parameter by default is set to 8, in case of a lvl of 15+, that would lead to an average of 14 potions! Now I really want to understand the way you interpret the list. You do seem to think this is the case, as you claimed: Of course this then changes when you get e.g. 3 leveled lists.
• Fifth, and let me bring in the LL1NPCWeaponArrow100 list as an example since the list is very similar to the LL1NPCPotionRestoreHealthBandit list: so you're telling me a Marauder Archer can spawn with different types of arrows in quality? I've never seen an Marauder Archer 'do' that, let alone any other archer. All they spawn with as well is one single iron arrow. If what you're claiming is true, then at NPC level 4 the Marauder Archer will spawn with both silver and steel arrows. And if you believe a ILevItemLevelDifferenceMax parameter by default set to 8 is to be followed, that would mean that Marauder Archer would spawn with arrows of Daedric quality, all the way down to Silver quality. Do you have a source for these particular claims, since this goes right against my many hundreds hours of experiences of the base vanilla game (I've never played Oblivion on PC). I can bring in other examples from spell or staves lists, but I think I made my point here.
• Sixth, I looked back at your previous comment, and noticed another very important point I need to address: ...because at different levels you have different counts and the "Calculate for each item in count" box is ticked, the percentage of at least 1 potion appearing is not always 19%. This, AND the more than 1 LL0 list-conjecture, seem to be what you base all your math on (the 3x3 matrix of 9 possible combinations/outcomes). However, that's not how the 'Each=1' parameter works, since it's not what it determines. You're confusing this with either the 'Item Count' of the LL1 list, or the 'Useall'-parameter, those two are what determine multiple LL0 lists being picked. As I mentioned earlier: It [the Each-parameter] does not determine whether the NPC literally gets a single item from every Item lvl type in that list (that's what the 'Useall' parameter is for). Let me use the same source as earlier to back up these claims, starting with 'Useall' since it is easier to understand: Use All: This overrides the above two settings; this list always returns all of its contents, 1 of each selection. And the Creation Kit Wiki quotes: Use All causes the list to always return all of its contents. This list is sometimes used in spell lists, where the NPC knows one of every single spell in that list. I've seen this being used a couple of times.

So now as for the 'Each'-parameter, the Uesp leveled lists page quotes: Each: If set, when another list applies a quantity larger than 1 to this list, instead of picking one option to return with a quantity multiplied by the other list's quantity, the other list's quantity determines how many options are selected individually, and then all of them are returned. And the Creation Kit Wiki quotes: If this list is in another leveled list with a count greater than zero, this check box determines if each item in the count is the same, or is recalculated. Or Recalculate the chance for each item picked by the parent list is a better way to phrase it. So basically, this parameter determines how many times a calculation is being done to determine what and how many items are spawnwed. See this Reddit link for a great example/explanation.

• Last but not least: I already addressed your further math in my last point, since it all comes down to the same point. Good to know we found agreement on the skill mismatch/oversight-point. I just noticed btw that the Unofficial Oblivion Patch is still being updated, so perhaps me archiving all that stuff had another benefit.

Before responding, please read this and my previous comment again, especially the parts on 'Alllvl=0/1'. I likely may already have addressed points you may still wonder about. I'm really looking forward to your sources should you still disagree. C0rTeZ48 (talk) 01:00, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

(←) Hi C0rTeZ. As a general point, I think it's worth stating up front that I thought we were having a perfectly civilised and intellectually interesting conversation about leveled lists, with the ultimate objective being that of reaching the correct understanding of the CS's mechanics. So I'm quite surprised you think things are "getting out of hand" just because we're disagreeing on something. I'd like to continue to keep this discussion calm and polite please, as I think it's been thus far. That said, why don't I try to answer your individual points. In many cases, I think we may be talking slightly at cross purposes, interpreting the same text differently or actually basically saying the same thing but with different words. So I will try to be as clear as possible; perhaps I haven't been previously.

• 1) I think what might have been unclear is me saying LL0 were "chosen" rather than "being returned". Let me expand. The quote from the leveled list page does not in fact contradict what I'm saying about the number of LL0 lists; quite the opposite. There are two elements at play here: number of objects and the item count in lists. The former is essentially the number of rows in the CS objective window (or in the table, if you're using the data here). The latter is found in the "Count" column in the CS or in the "Item Count" column in the CSList table.

To make it concrete to our case, what that quote is saying is that when the LL1NPCPotionRestoreHealthBandit list is called in an Apostle's inventory, "it picks exactly one object" (i.e. row) and then - this being the crucial bit - it "returns the quantity" (i.e. the item count) "it has associated with that object". So at levels 1-2, it returns Row 1, with an associated Item Count of 1; at levels 3-4 it returns Row 2 with an associated Item Count of 2; etc. This is what I meant with the statement that at levels 3-4 there is the possibility (governed by the Chance None = 75% parameter) of the LL1 list returning ("choosing") two LL0NPCPotionRestoreHealthW lists. It's because at those levels the selected object/row has an item count of 2. If this wasn't the case, then there would be no way of more than 1 potion ever appearing (and from what I gather you agree that depending on level there can be up to 3 potions appearing) because all the individual LL0 lists contain only 1 potion.

To address the second part of the quote about multiple objects for the same level. What that means for our case is that at e.g. level 7 there are two objects (rows) that could be chosen: LL0NPCPotionRestoreHealthW and LL0NPCPotionRestoreHealth, both with Item Count 2 but the latter with stronger potions. What the quote is saying is that only one row can be picked, meaning you can't have max 4 LL0 lists returned (and thus potions appearing) but only max 2.

• 2) As discussed in the point above, the Item Count on LL1NPCPotionRestoreHealthBandit in the Apostle's inventory is not relevant for potion quantity, it is the Item Count on the LL0 lists within LL1NPCPotionRestoreHealthBandit that matters. And as explained above, it is not the case that only one LL0 can ever be returned. Again, otherwise you'd only ever get max one potion, and I think we have both previously agreed you can get up to 3, depending on level.
• 3) This point is addressed by my first bullet. I think here we're essentially talking about the same mechanism, but the confusion is due to my previous wording about LL0 lists being "picked" (which I appreciate you could interpret as referring to the rows) rather than "being returned" (by which I mean returned to the L11 list based on the row's Item Count and the Chance None parameter).
• 4) Again, I think this addressed by the above. But to answer your question: if Chance None is zero for both the LL1 and LL0 lists, then the guaranteed amount of potions is simply the Item Count for the selected LL0 row in the LL1 list. In our specific list that would depend on level, with a maximum of 3 guaranteed LL0 lists and thus 3 guaranteed potions at levels 15+.

As a side note, in our example, the ILevItemLevelDifferenceMax parameter is irrelevant because the Calculate from all levels <= PC's level box is unticked (or in CSList, the Alllvl parameter is 0). This means, as I explained above, that the CS will choose the closest item(s) to the NPC's level (but not above that level). So at levels 15+ it will only ever return the final row: LL0NPCPotionRestoreHealthS with an Item Count of 3. If the box had been ticked (a.k.a Alllvl=1) then the standard ILevItemLevelDifferenceMax parameter of 8 would have excluded all LL0 objects below level 7. Or in other words, the first 3 rows.

• 5) LL1NPCWeaponArrow100 is actually not a good comparison for three reasons. First, unlike in our case, the Calculate from all levels <= PC's level box is ticked (Alllvl=1) so the object selection mechanism is different. Second, the Chance None parameter is zero, so you only have 2 potential outcomes (arrow/no arrow) rather than three as in our case (LL0 object is not picked/LL0 object picked + potion/LL0 object picked + no potion). Thirdly, on a more practical level, having such high Item Count values makes the maths more painful, as we'll see. Regardless, the answer is no, I am not saying you'd get different types of arrows. Depending on your level, the LL1 list would call a given LL0 object/row, which in this case corresponds to a specific arrow type. So you'll only ever get the same arrow type.

But what you'll notice is that the Item Count for the individual LL0 objects/rows changes: the level 1 LL0 object has a count of 20, the level 2 LL0 object has a count of 18, etc. This is exactly like in our Apostle example. Now the maths here is even more complicated, because with Alllvl=1 you have multiple LL0 objects with different Item Counts that could be picked for any given level, as opposed to our case, where all "competing"(if any) LL0 objects have the same Item Count. So let's simplify matters and assume Alllvl=0 like in the Apostle case.

At level 1 you'd have 20 counts of LL0LootArrow1Iron75. For this LL0 list you have a 75% chance of 1 arrow. Helpfully, the Calculate for each item in count (a.k.a Each=1) is ticked like in our example. As I explained above (and as per the Reddit link you posted below!) this means that the LL1 list does not just ask the LL0 list to return 0 or 20 arrows. Instead it "flips" (like a coin) the LL0 object twenty times and returns the aggregate (i.e. summed) result of those 20 flips. Now on average you'll receive 15 arrows (20 * 0.75). The probability of receiving zero arrows is miniscule (0.000000000091%, or 0.25^20) and corresponds to the single outcome with zero arrows in the matrix covering all 2^20 possible outcomes. You can also think of it as the likelihood of never getting a tail in 20 consecutive coin flips (adjusting for tails being 75% likely here, rather than the 50% in a fair coin). The probability of at least one arrow is thus, by definition, 1 minus 0.000000000091%. This is quite a bit higher than the 75% probability in the individual LL0 list.

Pressing on, at level 2 you'd have 18 counts of LL0LootArrow2Steel75. Here on average you will receive 14 arrows (18 * 0.75 = 13.5). The probability of receiving zero arrows is again miniscule (0.000000001455%, or 0.25^18) and the probability of at least one arrow is 1 minus 0.000000001455%.

Hopefully you're starting to see the similarities with the maths in my previous message, even though the higher Item Count makes it less immediate. The point I have been making is that in the Apostle list the average number of potions (or arrows in your proposed example) appearing, the likelihood of at least 1 potion (or arrow) appearing and the maximum amount of potions (or arrows) that can appear all depend on the level and cannot be simply stated with one number (e.g. "19%"). In any case, as I've said a few times now, there is no simple way of presenting this information in detail, so I'm content to just state the principle and to also note the percentage of an individual potion appearing (which to be clear is not the same conceptually as the percentage of at least one potion appearing).

• 6) Indeed, those are exactly the elements underpinning the maths, I just think you misunderstood what I meant with what you call the "multiple LL0 conjecture". And as I've hopefully shown in the rest of the answer, those elements actually match what the UESP page, Reddit and CSWiki all say. As I mentioned at the beginning, I think we are actually saying pretty much the same things regarding the CS mechanics. The thing that confuses me is thus which part of the maths you're disagreeing with!

As far as I can tell, everything you've linked to supports the logic of the calculations above and you can also verify their accuracy through e.g. websites like this or using the dice rolling analogy I employed before. The probability of a 6 appearing on a dice in one roll is just mathematically not the same as the probability of at least one 6 appearing in two rolls. And likewise the probability of a potion appearing when only one LL0 list is returned is not the same as the probability of at least one potion appearing when two LL0 lists are returned. That doesn't make either "wrong" - they're just describing different things, and both can be included on the page, to my mind.

I'm actually sort of chuckling to myself at all this because in the end the practical result is just the page staying as we agreed, but I'm just genuinely very confused about what you're disagreeing with! Hope this has been clearer, because as I said - almost paradoxically I think we're actually agreeing on most things! :) --SerCenKing (talk) 15:27, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi there SerCenKing, yes we are having a good conversation/discussion, and I appreciate it! The reason why I said it's getting out of hand is simply bc we're further down by some pretty long comments, without us really seeming to get further on this somewhat off-topic conversation without concrete results (seemingly without concrete results, since I just discovered your math as displayed above, more on this down below!). That's not per se bad in of itself, bc I do enjoy learning about the cslist and all (!), but on the other hand, I spent more time on this than I planned on doing. And also, I'm not sure what it's to you, but your talk page is already getting pretty long haha xD! It almost makes me think we should rather discuss someplace else, just so save up some room (not necessary anymore though). Yes, we do agree on the most important part, the chances of the individual potions, but another part is still not clear yet, in the sense that we seem to disagree on that (note: not the case anymore). I simply want to figure out how it works, so without too much hassle, I think its important for us to agree on things. So I really simply want to get to the bottom of this, that's all! Hope I clarified this now!

Oh and btw, I know the current conversation/discussion for the last few comments was actually already somewhat off-topic to our initial topic: that being what we should include on relevant NPC pages. Since we already agree on merely displaying the individual potion chances of spawning, and ignoring further complicated mathmatical outcomes or average potions!

• I'll just skip bullet points 1, 2, 3 and 4, bc the way you seem to explain it seems to be in align in the way I understand how the lists work, with the associated math and all. Only one small detail I'll add is that I forgot to mention that in my previous example of bullet point 4, the 'Alllvl' had to indeed be a 1, rather than the 0 it is. And as an addition, now while almost being finished writing this by bullet point 6, I finally understand how you arrived at your math above (the 66.02/33.98% figure)! At first, I didn't understand why you kept mentioning the chance of at least one potion spawning and the two dices adding up to 36/3x3 matrix of 9 possible combinations/outcomes-'conjecture' (if you will, for a lack of better words), since I still think it's irrelevant and makes it too unnecessarily complicated, and no page (if I'm correct) seems to display any sort of similar figure. But so you simply seemed to have multiplied 0.8125 by 0.8125 (in reference to a specific Item Count=2 object/row). Yes, in that case, those percentages do seem to be correct, and it to be the case! I've added this to this earlier bullet point, since it's more relevant here.
• On 5: well I guess this is simply a small difference in opinion, but on Now the maths here is even more complicated..., I'd say the math really is simple here. Bc, as you wrote, in LL1NPCWeaponArrow100, the math is simply always an average of 75% of the Item Count displayed behind the quality of a given arrow, since the Chancenone=25 for every single LL0LootArrow-list. But happy we agree on everything else here! With a last addition to your last two sentences (The point ... potion appearing), that's why I'm happy to agree we should rather state (average) spawn chances, rather than average potions or percentage of at least one potion appearing! As you may have noticed, this is different than what is stated for specific enchanted weapon and armor chances at certain NPC pages, since those are more simple, and should therefore state average armor/weapons!
• On 6: yes, that does seem to have been the case! Nothing personal, perhaps it's really just my own fault and me being an idiot ;), but at times it was a bit confusing to follow what you were referring to! And thank you for that link! As for the last part of your last sentence (...and both can be included on the page, to my mind.): Well, do you still think that's necessary? If you still want to add anything like this, why not simply add average potions per level instead? That alligns with what is displayed at other NPC pages (f.e., enchanted weapons/armor for Marauders). So you could go for something like: Lvl 1-2 (0.1875 weak potions), lvl 3-4 (0.375 weak potions), ... I still wonder about your opinion on this.

So things have been definitely cleared up by now! C0rTeZ48 (talk) 11:47, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Oh, and one more addition while being at it now: I've just noticed you've removed some Healing potions are always strongest for their level. lines from specific NPC pages. If you take a look f.e., at a random Conjurer (0x00069adb), you see that LL1NPCPotionRestoreMagicka (0x000ca086) and LL1NPCPotionRestoreHealth (0x000cb8b9) both have Alllvl at 0. That means it's always the strongest for that level, so why not keep this info? C0rTeZ48 (talk) 12:08, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Hello! No problem at all on the length - I'd rather get to the bottom of issues even if it takes a while, and this conversation has actually helped me a lot in refreshing my CS knowledge (and probability maths!) So I'll chalk it down as useful even if the end result is seemingly small :)

To respond to what I think is the only "outstanding" item. The reason I was banging on about the "at least" probability is because I found the previous wording we had around the potion % insufficiently precise regarding what was going on with the leveled list. So I was using the "at least" probability to 'expose' the issue, if you will, rather than specifically in its own right. Thus I think what we now have on e.g. the Necromancer page ("The average and maximum number of potions that may appear changes depending upon your level, as does the quality of the potions. Individual Restore Health potions have a 38% chance of appearing.") strike the right level between accuracy and readability. So that would be my proposal.

Regarding the Conjurer edit. In general it is true that Alllvl=0 means "strongest for that level", in the sense that the list won't pick any objects below the NPC's current level. However, for those specific lists you will see that at levels 10-11 you have an equal possibility of getting either a weak (LL0NPCPotionRestoreHealthW) or a strong (LL0NPCPotionRestoreHealthS) potion. Thus if you happen to get a weak potion you are not actually getting the strongest possible for that level, because in this case it's actually the strong potion that is the "strongest possible for level". I appreciate it's slightly splitting hairs, but it thus wouldn't be accurate to say you always get the strongest possible potion for the level. There's also the weirdness that at levels 10-11 you can get a weak potion but at levels 5-9 you can only get an average potion, and that at level 14 you can get an average potion but at levels 10-13 you can get a strong potion. So in this case paradoxically you could be better off by having Alllvl=1 as e.g. at level 14 you'd eligible for strong potions. So, in general (vast majority of cases) I've been marking your edits on Alllvl=0 as patrolled, but in this case it doesn't apply.

Since I'm here I'll also explain the edit I'm about to make on the Necromancer page. I'm removing the percentages for the same reason we've just been discussing about the Apostle page: that just providing the % is not sufficiently accurate to describe what's going on with the list. Hence why I instead linked the potions to the explanatory note. However, you're right that for those potions it's 75% rather than 38%, so have specified that too.

Finally, on a sort of separate note. From our discussions here and generally from patrolling your edits, I can tell you understand the CSList very well and have a good eye for Oblivion NPC edits. I particularly enjoyed checking your Falcar edit on his apparent lack of spells as I then discovered that the UOP fixed it (but without mentioning it in the change log)! So, in case you hadn't seen it, I'd point you in the direction of the Oblivion NPC Redesign Project and particularly this page, showing the NPC pages that still need work. I try to continue chipping away at the number of pages still needing checking or writing, and I'd really encourage you to consider contributing too. You certainly have the skills for the CS part, and you may also want to try your hand at in-game checking. Anyway, just a suggestion given your interest in OB NPC pages :) --SerCenKing (talk) 16:55, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Good to know! The same goes for me for that I also refreshed some knowledge!

Ah, good of you to share your motivation on why the 'at least' probability was important to you! If it's a useful addition to you, it's best to keep it I'd say!

I see where you are coming from. This is my opinion on the matter: on the one hand I agree with you in that there indeed seems to be a little scaling up and down between levels 3-14, but on the other hand there also generally seems to be an upward trend... But if I have to choose, I think I'll agree, mostly by my wording of always. And yes, especially on the 'Alllvl=1' point you're correct! Another question btw: what do you mean by 'marking as patrolled' in I've been marking your edits on Alllvl=0 as patrolled, but in this case it doesn't apply.?

That's fine, I did it a bit in a hurry!

Thank you very much and you're absolutely welcome! The same goes for you off course! If you really want to take a look at pages I spent quite some work on, take a closer look at the following pages, it will keep you busy for a while ;p: Dremora, Vampire, Drothmeri Army, Boethia's_Chosen, Zealot, Heretic, Priest of Order, Knight of Order, Brother Martin, Afflicted Brethren, Goblin Jim, Drothmeri Commander, Agronak gro-Malog, Mirili Ulven, Kathutet, Generic_Magic_Weapons, Generic_Magic_Apparel, Generic Staves, Reflect Spell and Summon.

As for the ONRP: I've known it for quite some time, but hadn't seen this page before. So what is labeled as 'Written' also still needs to be checked? I may take a look at 'faction', 'inventory', 'spells' and 'spells' in the future, but I can't promise anything since I already spent more time than I planned initially at all on the much-needed changes (imo) that had to be made so far! C0rTeZ48 (talk) 22:57, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

On the patrolling point, the full explanation can be found here, but basically Patrollers have some additional tools and functionalities that we use to ensure that (ideally) all edits on the wiki are checked for accuracy. For example if I go to a page's edit history and select a specific edit, I have a little box saying "[Mark as patrolled]" that I can click. I can also filter my Watchlist for edits that haven't been patrolled (i.e. checked) and they show up with red exclamation marks against them on Recent Changes. So in a sense it's my "wiki job" to check edits that are made by everyone except for other Patrollers or by Autopatrolled users, and given few Patrollers are still active in the OB namespace, I do proportionally more there.

On the ONRP, the Category page shows both (Un)Written and (Un)Checked. So everything marked as "Checked" is done - you'll see that Factions, Inventory and Spells are all basically done. What remains to be done is either in the "Unchecked" (particularly Dialogue, Schedules, Rumors, Quests) or even "Unwritten" columns. Hope you'll consider working on some of those pages at some point :) --SerCenKing (talk) 15:46, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Hey SerC, I was barely online last week, and noticed you've done many new contribs in the meantime, including you leaving me a message on my page, so I'll do my best to scan/answer these the coming days! But first I'll give a quick reply to your last message here: thank you for your info, I've only been monitoring all Oblivion and Shivering (talk) pages for about the last 2 years. I do so specifically to do my best to answer talk page questions people still have. Since I played Oblivion for at least 1500-2000 hours or so, including having read most (talk) pages on about every OB/SI topic there is here on UESP, I thought it'd be good of me to do so! :)

I just noticed I made an error in listing 'spells' twice; I meant services and spells. I still wonder what the exact differences are between 'written' and 'checked', since these are two different columns. I guess written ones still need to be checked? C0rTeZ48 (talk) 12:22, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Hey there! Yes I've been trying to clear a bit of the unpatrolled backlog - still a few to go... To answer your OBNPCRP question, perhaps easiest to look directly at an NPC page. Take Jeetum-Ze - if you expand the yellow banner at the top you'll see there's a mix of elements. For example, Spells are both Written & Checked; Dialogue is Written but Unchecked; whereas Schedule is Unwritten (and thus by definition Unchecked). These then map onto the categories you see in the table. Every element needs to be both Written and Checked for the page to be completed. In the table you'll see that for Spells and Factions every page has been Written, and that there's only a single page that remains to be Checked. On the other hand, Dialogue still needs to be Written on 38 pages, and of the 432 that have been written, only 180 have been Checked, so 252 remain Unchecked. Hope that makes sense! --SerCenKing (talk) 17:23, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

That makes sense, thank you! C0rTeZ48 (talk) 12:36, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Harlun's Watch - New Map NeededEdit

Hi SerCenKing! I noticed that you recently uploaded a couple of new maps for settlements in Oblivion. Since you're doing so, I just wanted to bring to your attention that the Harlun's Watch page also needs a new map since the current one was produced with the UOP installed. You might want to add that to your list if you haven't done so already. Cheers! — Wolfborn^(Howl) 18:47, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi Wolfborn, thanks the message and great spot! I'm not actually sure if another map is needed beyond the one you uploaded to the talk page, actually. Given the key template I'm using covers the door icons anyway, I'd say yours is good to go. If you can just upload it as a new version of the main map file I'll get to work on the key etc. Thanks! --SerCenKing (talk) 21:26, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Oblivion UESP superfan here (lol) sticking my nose in on this, as I was just about to make my own related suggestions on this great ongoing work. I think you're already looking to fix the Aleswell and Bleaker's Way maps and map keys, but Hackdirt could maybe use some work as well (the map's a bit cut off on the south side, and not all buildings are keyed). Also, Lord Rugdumph's Estate - together with Cloud Ruler Temple, Temple of the Ancestor Moths, Gweden Farm, and the Knights of the Thorn HQ - has a page structure not currently used by other "settlement" pages that's also not quite consistent across those five pages (with more extensive details on building interiors in separate page subsections), while the quest info is not yet at the top of the intro description, and it finally doesn't have a map (see Lord Drad's Estate for a comparison as far as the map). Either way, I appreciate you all and your dedication to the community. --Mikeprichard (talk) 21:52, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi SerCenKing! The vanilla Harlun's Watch map is uploaded as OB-map-Harlun's Watch Vanilla.jpg for you to work your magic on (I didn't want to overwrite the original file until it's ready). Cheers! — Wolfborn^(Howl) 04:28, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks both - Harlun's Watch now done. On Hackdirt and Temple of the Ancestor Moths, I'll have a think. The source of the issue is that the maps for the settlements are actually originally exterior maps for the relevant dungeon pages (hence e.g. the lettering starting for C). I might add separate maps with numbered keys. Beyond those, I don't see value in adding maps for settlements with fewer than three buildings, frankly.

On the other mentioned settlements, I would note that given they are not the same (multiple vs single-building settlements) it's not surprising they aren't entirely consistent. My guiding approach would be to keep information concentrated rather than dispersed. My preference would be that pages such as Drad/Rugdumph Estates contain all building information - I see limited value in e.g. creating individual pages for the servant/slave shacks. Similarly, I see little value in creating three separate pages for the components of Temple of the Ancestor Moths when you can easily fit them in one page. In this case, I therefore also disagree with having Gottlefont House as a separate page, but alas. For the others (all single-building settlements with multiple cells) I think the current approach, with subsections for each, works well. If needed we could have a "Zones/Buildings" header to separate them from the intro text. Those would be my initial thoughts at least. --SerCenKing (talk) 15:26, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I completely agree on all points (including there being no need for maps for "settlements" like Gottlesfont Priory or others with only 1 or 2 buildings - I only referenced the single-building "settlements" above in relation to the page structure re: interior details, not maps, but I also failed to notice until now that Lord Rugdumph's joint only has two buildings, not three). And yeah, having compact information on one comprehensive location page wherever feasible is also my strong preference - my recent edits to e.g. Gottlefont House are only textual nits, but I'm intentionally rolling with the existing overall page names/divisions since I don't want to start going rogue and moving many pages around/possibly breaking links on my own. Anyway, I'll let you stew on these broader ideas as you have the time/inclination - thanks again. --Mikeprichard (talk) 15:43, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Plant/ingredient list order?Edit

Yep, it's me again! I've been having trouble dealing with the various ingredient/plant lists on the Oblivion location pages; in a recent edit to the Shardrock page, you noted that for one sentence there the order should be "numerical first, alphabetical second", but elsewhere (including on this page and many others, as well as all dungeon pages I've come across so far) the rule seems to be simply alphabetical regardless of amounts (which seems simpler and more reliable to implement to me at least). That said, is there guidance on this issue so I know exactly when to do what for future edits? Cheers! --Mikeprichard (talk) 22:35, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for flagging this - it looks like my headcanon (which I've been using for all the Beyond Skyrim dungeons) was utterly unfounded! I sort of still think it looks better in numerical order but will revert the Shardrock edit to keep consistency with the rest of OB namespace. Cheers! --SerCenKing (talk) 11:18, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Lol, there is a lot to keep track of on this fine wiki - I've seen as I've been digging into the Oblivion pages compared to my earlier work on Skyrim that the different games often have their own approaches to formatting - but once again, I appreciate your patience. FYI, I just finished my backlog of dungeon locations, and may make a few minor (and hopefully final for me) tweaks to some farm and village pages in the next couple weeks based on what I've picked up recently, but I expect I'll get into a more reasonable tempo soon that should make your reviewing a bit easier. Have a good one! --Mikeprichard (talk) 11:28, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Activity StatusEdit

Hi SerCenKing. You are currently listed as semi-active on the Patrollers page and active on the Blockuser page. These should match up since you're the same user. Since you've been making lots of edits recently (500 in the last month or so), would you consider yourself active or semi-active? —Dillonn241 (talk) 05:24, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi Dillonn! It's true I've found myself with more time than expected lately, but I think best to keep me as semi-active across both. I have no guarantee I won't have to randomly disappear again for stretches in the near future so think that's the most accurate option. Thanks also for the bunch of category edits on BS Cyrodiil :) --SerCenKing (talk) 11:04, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

I moved you. Thanks for the confirmation and you're welcome re: the categories. There are some more missing but I don't really want to get lost down a rabbit hole in that namespace. I just happened to notice a red link on a house page, and look where that got me! —Dillonn241 (talk) 11:46, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

CookieEdit

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: Twelve years later and we finally have a map of the Realm of Peryite that matches the article! Nice work SCK 😁 —⁠Legoless (talk) 16:27, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Why, thank you very much! Those Oblivion Realm maps can be a bit of a pain, but it's not terrible once you get the hang of it... Though I still maintain my best necromantic effort was this :) --SerCenKing (talk) 08:07, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Amazing. —⁠Legoless (talk) 16:29, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Missing CS dialogue for many NPCsEdit

Hiya there Serc, just want to let you know that I just updated some dialogue for a few different NPC pages to the best of my abilities by checking the cslist, which had you referred to as the one who checked the CS for dialogue. I just want to ask whether you really checked the cslist completely, since if you did, my guess is that every NPC page need to be checked again for whether they are indeed fully updated. A current example is Alves Uvenim, which also has you referred to as the one who checked the CS for dialogue, but has at least 21 dialogue lines missing on the page according to the cslist: https://cslist.uesp.net/index.php?game=ob&formid=0x0002d027. I don't have a lot of time at the moment, so I at least want to send a heads-up for if you can check the dialogue, if you have got the time. C0rTeZ48 (talk) 13:24, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi C0rTeZ48, good to see you back editing! Regarding your question, the Mages Guild NPCs you've been looking at are ones that I worked on way back in 2010, so I can't tell you for sure how accurate I was. It's entirely possible that, being less experienced than I am now, I missed the odd line. More consequentially, these NPCs were also written back when the consensus was not to include quest dialogue on NPC pages, which is not the current consensus. So, if you find there are missing lines, whether quest-related or not, please do feel free to add them. You could also consider changing the dialogue formatting in line with the current consensus (see this edit for example) and if the dialogue is quest-related to also use the newer format (see this edit for example). Thanks! --SerCenKing (talk) 13:52, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

I see, I thought something like that was the case! I also understand what you say on the current formatting, if it's not too much to be changed for a page in question, I will do so. However, since I lack the proper time at the moment, and I still have some NPC pages I want to skim through, I think it's most important to just add the missing dialogue lines. Sorry for if I can't hold up to the standard in question! Also, feel free to check my changes, since I'm not fully sure whether I did them completely correct! C0rTeZ48 (talk) 14:16, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi SerC, I think you may have noticed I'm working on a lot of NPC dialogue pages, especially checking the ones UnknownG worked on. However, I think it may be best if you patrol all my edits one last time. First thing is that I get the feelings the CSlist pages aren't always fully complete. And secondly, I can't confirm in-game whether it's all completely accurate. I know you told me earlier about the Oblivion NPC Redesign Project and particularly this page, but for the reasons mentioned, I think it's best I don't change the 'unchecked' markers and such. I'd let that up to someone like you if you find that okay. And as also mentioned in my primary comment in this section, if we want to be 100% sure if the NPC pages contain all dialogue, I think it's best to check every NPC once again, even the ones that are already Written and Checked and all. Let me know what you think of this. C0rTeZ48 (talk) 09:44, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Hey there. Yep, I've noticed you've been quite busy! No worries on the ONPCRP categories, I'll take a look throughout and update them if needed. As you say, sometimes lines cannot actually be heard in-game for whatever reason, so that needs checking.

What exactly was your concern regarding the CSList not being complete, however? I would have thought it had everything, given it's a data extract from the CS. I usually use the CS directly though, so not super familiar. What I would say is to be careful when dealing with Dialogue lines that are linked to a certain NPC, in particular:

1. Whether the dialogue line is linked because that NPC shouldn't say the line. This is the case for this line you added to Hafid Hollowleg. You can see this by going into the dialogue line directly (here) and spotting that it has a condition which is GetIsID = 0 for Hafid.
2. Whether the line is spoken by more than one NPC, and is therefore not unique to them. Again, the other two lines you added to the Hafid page are an example: you can also hear them from Petrine and Fjotreid (see here). Another example is Ita Rienus's second "Training" line, which she shares with Boderi Farano (see here). When it's only shared with 1-2 other NPCs it's probably ok to include, but if it's more then I'd say no, as it really isn't "unique" to the NPC anymore.

Let me know if you have any further questions and thanks again! --SerCenKing (talk) 12:08, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

One problem with the CSList is that it only seems to list the last line of multi-line dialogues. You can see an example here: Erina Jeranus's full dialogue if you rent the room at the West Weald Inn (taken from the CS) is actually two lines: "Excellent. I'm sure you'll be quite satisfied." "Go upstairs, and look for the door on the right at the end of the hall. Sleep well!" Only the second line is present on the CSList page; the first line doesn't appear for some reason. Even going to the second line's INFO page doesn't show the first line associated with it. Another example is this line you pointed out above: checking in the CS, it's actually the last (and by far shortest) line of a three-line dialogue (see Raynil Dralas topic here, which ironically I also had to update). Not sure why only the last line of multi-line dialogues was recorded in the CSList, but C0rTeZ48's feeling that the CSList info isn't always complete seems to be well-founded. (And welcome back, C0rTeZ48!) — Wolfborn^(Howl) 13:17, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

(←) I can't recall all of the specifics, but I know CSList doesn't show everything that the Creation Kit does. If possible, you should always use the CK in preference to CSList. That said, CSList is often a lot quicker to look things up in, so if it's something small and not mission-critical, CSList may be the better way to go in that case. – Robin Hood ^(talk) 14:31, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

I'll react to what all three of you have said:

1. @SerC, concerning the GetIsID = 0, does that basically mean all other NPCs in Bruma can say (this line) in rumors on the topic of Raynil Dralas, except for those six mentioned in the table?

2. Also @SerC, this is just my opinion, but personally I do prefer NPC pages listing all associated dialogue that mentioned on their related CSList page, even if it is shared by multiple NPCs. In fact, this is already the case on NPC pages. F.e., (these) (two lines) are shared by the five Thieves Guild fences, where Ongar already had them included on his page. The associated pages never mention Generic Rumors, so it's not like we would therefore dump a lot of extra, unrelated dialogue on their pages not unique to them. But I wonder if there is already consensus on this topic I have no influence on changing (also looking at Wolfborn and Robin Hood for their opinion on this matter). If so, taking notice of Ongar I just mentioned, even if there is consensus on this topic, it does not seem to be followed (by all users) on the NPC pages. And final, what's the harm in adding a few unique lines shared by NPCs for the sake of it all being complete?

3. @Wolfborn, yes you are completely correct. I could have been more specific, but as you stated is basically how I also understand the CSList to work.

4. @Robin Hood, since I don't have Oblivion on PC, does this mean I therefore can't check the CK? Moving forward, I will continue checking the CSList pages, but if we are to be complete, that means someone needs to add the final touch in adding the related CK dialogue as well. C0rTeZ48 (talk) 16:22, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

1. Exactly, you got it.

2. The current consensus is that only dialogue unique to an NPC should be recorded on an NPC's page. This is to avoid duplicating information and cluttering pages. However, as SerCenKing said above, how many NPC's need to share a line before it should be considered non-unique is something that is not explicitly defined: 1, 2, 5? Does it depend on context? Would it be better to include the shared lines on the relevant topic page (e.g. quest page for quest-related dialogue, place page for place-related dialogue, etc.)? I don't know if this has ever been discussed in the past; it would be good to have a guideline on this, but that would probably require a separate topic with wider community input.

4. RobinHood is referencing the Construction Set here (which, yes, you don't have access to since you're not on PC). "CK" is actually short for "Creation Kit", which is the name for the Skyrim version of the Construction Set; users who play a lot of Skyrim sometimes use the abbreviation "CK" for other games as well. — Wolfborn^(Howl) 22:15, 31 May 2024 (UTC)