Lore talk:Ayleidoon

Ayleid Language in MorrowindEdit

-The Morrowind "Molag Mar" - Fire Sea?/Land?
Imperator 05:33, 8 November 2006 (EST)

Ayleid has common roots in Aldmeris and Ehlnofex, from which many words, such as Molag, originate. That should be its own article at some point. (Other examples would be the "Bal Molagmer", which means literally "Stone Fire Men", or "Molag Bal", which means "Fire Stone". Also, "Balmora" = "Stone Forest", "Bal Fell" = "Stone City", etc.) --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 10:33, 8 November 2006 (EST)

Ayleid PhrasesEdit

These are Ayleid phrases used by Umaril the Unfeathered during the Knights of the Nine, and their translations, extracted from the construction set. I'm just dumping the info here for now; anyone else is free to decipher what they can about the Ayleid language from this info.

Asma bala ni hilyat sino? (pronunciation: "AZ-mah BA-la nee HILL-yaht SEE-no?", all the vowels are short.) = "By what power [do] you follow me here?"
Heca! (pronunciation: HEK-ah!) = "Begone!/Stand aside!"
Rahtan Pelinale na anda! (pronunciation: "RAH-tahn pell-ih-NALL-ay na AHN-da!") = "Pelinal's reach is long!"
As balangua, Ehlnada racuvar! "ahss BAH-lang-gwa, ell-NAH-da RAH-koo-var!" = "By my power, the mortal gods shall be cast down!"
Abagaianye Ehlnadaya! "Ah-ba-GUY-ahn-yae ell-nah-DAH-ya!" = "I do not fear your [mortal] gods!"
As oiobala Umarile, Ehlnada racuvar! = "By the eternal power of Umaril, the mortal gods shall be cast down."
Man kana mitta abasel Umarile? "Mahn kah-nah mitt-ah ah-bah-sell OOH-ma-rill-ay", all the vowels are short = "Who dares enter Umaril's forbidden hall?"
Pelinal na vasha. Sa yando tye. "Pelinal na VAH-sha. Sa YAN-do tie." = "Pelinal is gone [dead]. So also [will] you [be]."
Shanta, ehlno. Tyavoy balangua! "SHAN-tah, ELL-no. Tie-AH-voy bal-AHN-gwa!" = "Come, mortal. Taste my power!"

--Nephele 16:06, 13 January 2007 (EST)

Usage that survives to the 3rd/4th era?Edit

I noticed something interesting. The Remanada mentions the meaning of "Sancre Tor" as meaning "Golden Hill". The last level of Veyond is called "Sancremathi". Sancre Tor's name apparently is Ayleid, or at least Aldmeris/Ehlnofex. Someone else in the TES Lore Forums mentioned that Kvatch was mentioned in the notes in Lost Boy Caverns, and made a guess that "Kvatch" could mean "Mountain", which Kvatch is situated on top of. The mountain with a flat top would have been an ideal place for a well-defended city; perhaps the Ayleids took advantage of the locale before the Cyrodiils did? — Unsigned comment by 70.251.44.63 (talk) at 18:33 on 7 February 2007‎

ReferencesEdit

Since the language hasn't been quite nailed down could someone track down the references to all of these words on the page? Might be helpful to whatever poor grammatarians are studying it. :P -- — Unsigned comment by 216.251.188.62 (talk) at 02:06 on 2 March 2007‎

Most (if not all) of the un-translated words on this list are found in the names of Ayleid ruins (or sections of them) in Oblivion. Since they're just location names, the words aren't really used in any sort of context that would give a clue as to their meaning. But if you want a place to start, look at Oblivion:Places#Ayleid Ruins, and just go down the list. That's how I got all these words. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 23:29, 1 March 2007 (EST)

Major UpdateEdit

I got alot of the new KOTN words in, and split alot of the compounds that I could find. Also I tidied it up a little bit, and corrected a few mistakes, however tommorow I'll get to work on polishing it abit more, and removing some of the various "problems" that are still there (E.g. someone has put Molag Bal, and Bal in there, both havn't come up in any Ayleid script I've seen, and Bal is a Dunmeri word, and as far as we know that is all it is, and Molag Bal isn't a word, it's two words put together, with only a tie to the god to keep it there).

Anyway I hope this major (and needed) update is appreciated by someone ;) — Unsigned comment by The Old Ye Bard (talk • contribs) at 11:03 on 2 May 2007‎

It definitely is! It's great to have someone who's willing to take the time to look over the whole page and apply some consistency to all the entries. Keep up the good work :) --Nephele^Talk 13:20, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I'm stumped on this:

Agea haelia ne jorane emero laloria. = "Wisdom learned by pain is a reliable guide in dark times." [literally, "Terrible wisdom never betrayed the loremasters."]

Not the whole sentance, but "Laloria" because it seems to be a compund word made up of "La-Loria", which translates to ?-Dark (yes dark is just "lor" however the "ia" is to give the first part of the compound a plural, which in this case is most likely time to times), however that would mean it would better correspond to "...[In] dark times", however nothing about "dark times" appears in the literal translation. What do you think is the right course of action?

Oh and if anyone didn't notice already, I've further given the Ayleid language an overhaul, with an estimated 20+ words added (mostly from compounds), and a further 10-or-so translations added (aswell as updating some). I'm still working on it though ;). --The Old Ye Bard. 05:27, 4 May 2007‎

It seems possible that the literal translation might actually be "Terrible wisdom never betrayed the loremasters in dark times." That looks consistent with the Ayleid phrase, makes sense as a sentence, and corresponds better to the non-literal translation. Without independent confirmation of the meaning of "laloria" it's of course somewhat speculative, but to me appears logical. --Nephele^Talk 02:19, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, I though it might be something like that, and it isn't the first time something logical like this has turned out right (in a study I made before KOTN I found that "sel" was "hall", before it was even known), and to a degree most of the Ayleid language is somewhat speculative, because Beth hasn't given an acurte chart of what words translate to what. --The Old Ye Bard. 06:31, 4 May 2007‎

Ayleid GrammarEdit

I've added an "Ayleid Grammar" section, though it is currently lacking alot more depth than it should (but I'll be adding to it over the next week or so). I also want to add another section for the Phonetics of the language, from what can be gathered from KOTN.

And then I will also be adding a section for the Ayleid writing, however it will be small because the Dwemeri Alphabet covers most of what is important about it anyway (as Ayleid writing is a variant).

Anyway, I hope this large update will be of some use to Ayleid schollars of the community :). — Unsigned comment by The Old Ye Bard (talk • contribs) at 08:17 on 4 May 2007‎

Compound wordsEdit

In the section on compound words, it is stated "...it is normally safe to assume that the word means 'Noun1 of Noun2,' as in the word 'Ceysel,' which translates to 'Hall of Shadow'". This is, to my understanding, a bit paradoxical, as "sel" (hall) is "Noun2", but is translated as were it "Noun1". Am I missing something here, or should the explanation be changed to "...it is normally safe to assume that the word means 'Noun2 of Noun1'"?--Quill 19:19, 12 February 2008 (EST)

You know, I think you're right. Two other examples I saw just scanning through the list were "Varlasel - Hall of Stars" and "Aransel - King's hall" (or hall of the king), which follow the same pattern. --Eshe^talk22:47, 12 February 2008 (EST)

I think it was just a mistake by the original editor, misplacing "Noun1" with "Noun2", but I still wanted to check, just in case. I'll do the edit.--Quill 08:32, 13 February 2008 (EST)

Nice catch, I didn't spot that when I was writing it up --The Old Ye Bard 00:01, 17 February 2008‎

Actually there are many other cases in which it is indeed "Noun1 of Noun2": for example "Lattanya" translates as "light of life", where "latta" (Noun1) obviously means light and "anya" (Noun2) is life as in "anyammis"; or "Ceyatatar", which is translated as "Shadow of the Fatherwood" (with "Cey" meaning shadow, just as in "Ceysel"). This rule also holds in other elven languages: for example in Orcish, where "Agra Crun" means "blood shield" or "shield of blood", with "agra" meaning shield and "crun" meaning blood (as in "crun granosh" - "blood for our enemies"). I suggest returning the rule as it was, and perhaps mentioning that there are possible exceptions and inconsistencies. I think the difference might consist in whether the modifier is regarded more as a noun or as an adjective. If the modifier is seen as a noun, then it is "Noun1 of Noun2" (as in Lattanya), while if it is seen as an adjective it is "Noun1-ish Noun2" (as in Ceysel). Feynn (talk) 00:27, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Words ending in -nessEdit

Any insights as to how this works? I love this section and would love to see it expand! — Unsigned comment by 24.72.161.21 (talk) at 20:16 on 25 October 2012‎

Dagon & AlataEdit

Hello! It may not have any relevance, but I thought I'd share that "alata" is "wing" in Latin. (Such as "Ulmus Alata," the Winged Elm.) Also, "Dagon" was a northwest Semitic deity of grain and agriculture.

65.81.137.237 01:26, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

Another section upEdit

I've put another section up on the Valenwood Variant of the language, aswell as putting up a notice about the article being a WIP (I think that I've justified it being a WIP with my constant updates over the last month-or-so).

I'll most likely be putting up a section on pronounciation soon.

-The Old Ye Bard 10:45, 23 May 2007‎

Questionable ReferenceEdit

Does anyone have any refernce to Arana/Aran meaning king/kings? because through my research "El" has come up more frequently as king (or a similar meaningful title), such as in the case of Auri-El (Auriel) or El-Esh (Alessia). If no one can find reference to Aran/Aran meaning king/kings then I will remove the translation, for being incorrect. - The Old Ye Bard 10:44, 26 May 2007‎

Some of the dialogue during the Secrets of the Ayleids quest has translations in the construction set that are relevant:

Av Auri-El ye Tamri-El dellevoy an Arpen Aran tarnabye! = By Auriel and Tamriel, grant [imperative] [the] Noble [ie, True] King passage.

Av Sunna Tam Riel arctavoy an Arpen Aran malaburo! = Upon this bright crown acknowledge [the] Noble [ie, True] King loving-vassalage.

Those seem to support Aran meaning king, but I'll leave it to you to figure out the details of what the sentences really mean :) --Nephele^Talk 12:03, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for that. I beleive the "El" is to show holy/important significance, and god-like status. BTW that translation should be put on the Secrets of the Ayleids page (I'll be putting it on the Ayleid language page anyway). - The Old Ye Bard 05:17, 27 May 2007‎

(←) Looking at the aylied dictionary section, I couldn't help but notice how similar the words Aran (king) and Karan (armor) are. Considering that a king's main duty was to protect his people, just as the main function of armor is to protect its wearer, I think that it's reasonably fair to assume that Aran could mean "protector" as well as "king". Note however that this is just a speculation with no facts to support it, I just thought it was worth mentioning. — Unsigned comment by 90.227.35.69 (talk) at 12:20 on May 4, 2011

It is not necessary that similar sounding words are connected. For example, a pineapple in not a pine tree fruit that it delicious in pie. --DKong27 ^{Talk Cont} 18:57, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Possessive AdjectivesEdit

For starters, "nou" and "sou" ("our" and "your") are obviously of Latin and Greek origin, resp. The suffix "-ya" ("ehlnadaya", "your mortal gods", as per Umaril's Dialogue) seems to mean "your" in a generic form (plural)-- as to why this has not been changed on the official ayleid language page, as it is so blatantly obvious it hurts (lol), I'm not sure ("ehlnada", "mortal gods" versus "ehlnadaya", "your mortal gods") I'm also not sure why some possessives are suffixed and others not-- "nou..." and "sou..." versus "-ya" and "-angua" (my). Much to discover. — Unsigned comment by 168.16.190.96 (talk) at 23:12 on 14 April 2008‎

SandhiEdit

Sandhi is defined as the change of phones at morpheme boundaries. This will, of course, naturally occur in a language such as Ayleidoon, where the majority of "words" are compounds. So far, I've noticed: "o"/"a" ("ehlno" + "ada" = "ehlnada") "a"/"a" ("bala" + "angua" = "balangua" As to why these changes occur, I've no clue. Perhaps someone else could shed a little light on this. — Unsigned comment by 168.16.190.96 (talk) at 23:12 on 14 April 2008‎

Possible Mistranslations and ReorganisationEdit

I've been looking at this over the past couple of days and I think we have several incorrect translations. For a start, I think "ia" is an indication of an adjective rather than a plural. Look at "Agea haelia" (wisdom terrible) and "gravia ye goria" (ugly and obscure) both in the Ayleid Reference text. That would point to "gandra sepredia" (welcoming gifts) being wrong in our list, as "gandra" should be "gifts" and "sepredia" being "welcoming". The only problems with this theory are "laloria", which is causing translation problems anyway, and two of the inscriptions in Vahtacen's Secret. The other one that looks slightly problematic ("lattia mallari av malatu") can be explained by looking at the literal translation as being "shiny (is) the gold of truth".

The section on plurals would then need some work. It seems "is" is a common indicator of a plural (relleis ye brelyeis ye varlais), but there's also "as" (garlas) and "a" (Arana).

Imperative verbs have a few inconvenient exceptions to the "-voy" suffix rule. "Barra" (wear) and "Suna" (bless) are both imperatives, so it looks like "-voy" might just be an intensifier.

The only other word I think is clearly wrong is "nagaia" from V's Secret. There's simply no way it means "damage". I'm going to suggest it means "death" (or "deathly", given my arguments above) to keep up the opposites theme that we have with the magicka lines. Given the multiple meanings of "av", it would lead to a slightly more poetic translation of the inscriptions: "Life from fire, into deathly frost, darkly magicka; magicka shines".

Whether or not you think my etymological ramblings useful, I think we should look at revamping this page. Something more like the Tamriel Dictionary would be a good idea, so we can list words with plurals and related words under one definition, which would mean one reference for all senses and make things a bit neater. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:46, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

Trust me on this one, gandra is welcomming, and sepredia is gifts. I've spent an intense amount of time working on this page, compared to the 'past couple of days' you have been looking at it, and while alot of the stuff isn't referenced, it's still backed up by alot of study. Barra and Suna aren't imperatives unless you actually use them like an imperative. If I say "You are to Bless him" Suna would become Sunnavoy, but if I say "I bless you" it would just be Suna, because it isn't in an imperative tense. I'll give you Nagaia though, that's something I've been thinking about updating. - The Old Ye Bard 05:52, 28 July 2008‎

What I meant was that I'd spent the last two days looking through things in detail - I've spend a long time looking at it in the past. The point about imperatives is fine, but you didn't give any reason for your claim about "gandra sepredia" even in the light of my counterexample, "Agea haelia". If you have references for your claims, please include them. Otherwise I'm going to change things so they make more sense. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:21, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

I'm surprised it hasn't really been discussed prior to now on this page as I'm sure TYOB, being a frequenter of the ES Lore forum, is aware of it. The reason you are seeing the noted disonances in the vocabulary and gramer is because, I'm fairly sure, Ayleidon draws from at least two different sources. The first being whaterever the Inscription and Translation text and the second being a mishmash of Tolkien's elvish tongues with perhaps more fictional languages thrown in for fun. Looking at the translation text, one can tell it's fairly simple, enough to catch a few words, note some gramatical differences as it lays out some basics. Fairly obvious setup, s-v-o w/adjectives following nouns they're describing. From second hand (and by no means accurate) discussion, my guess is that Bethesda has a in-house list of 'elvish' (not all of which are here) words which built this (doing some quick Quenya dictionary searches online yields nothing so they're either original or someone covered their tracks better than a quick glance would catch). The second Tolken derived material seems to have arisen during quest design: Secrets of Vahtacen, Umbacano, Umaril, and a great many ruin names have some gramer and vocabulary though they always use words from the Translation text if they can (unless the quest designer forgot/missed/ignored a word). For instance, the ruin Vilverin means "Butterfly" in Telerin(iirc), Garlas(from reference text) Malatar(from quenya) means "Cavern of the Gold-Father" not surprising given Umaril is there, Gaiar (Telerin) Alata (Quenya) means litterally "The Sea Radience" or one might say "The Radient Sea" which I believe is fitting with Mankar's vision, Vauna means gone/lost... Most of Umaril's speech/writings are formulated correctly for Quenya. I was rather disappointed when I found out, robbed to much of the magic of discovery away from Tamrielic Elvish and trying to reconcile it with Ehlnofex is, in my opinion, a nightmare.

On that note, there should probably be a page describing the methodology behind what meanings were assigned to what words. "Trust me" just doesn't cut it. Sorta screams "Unqualified Speculation" --Solin 06:55, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

Well, I personally would agree about nagaia. Since "Av Molag Anyammis" means "From Fire, Life", then it would be logical to assume the next phrase, "Av Mafre Nagaia" means something along the lines of "From Frost, Death". Not that my opinion really matters in an encyclopedia, but "damage" is just as speculative as "death" as a translation. — Unsigned comment by 24.174.163.173 (talk) at 15:29 on 11 September 2008‎

On the matter of Quenya based, I think its Sindarin, with some versions of quite old Quenya. Aran at the least means King.

In the sentence Suna ye sunnabe comes from I geuss ye unotime But not fully sure about it, it only appears in Appendices. — Unsigned comment by 82.171.193.43 (talk) at 20:17 on 9 February 2009‎

ScriptEdit

The language's script is found in the games; could we make a key? For example, A = ?, B = ?, C = ? ... C Teng ^[talk] 18:22, 12 October 2008 (EDT),

Never mind; I'm thinking of the Daedric Alphabet. C Teng ^[talk] 18:25, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

Past TenseEdit

While I was browsing through the "dictionary" I noticed that several words used the "i", "e", and "n" suffix to denote the past tense of a verb. IE: Adma-hear, Admia-Heard / Joran-Betray, Jorane-Betrayed / Suna-Bless, Sunna-Blessed I was wondering wheter this should be included in the grammar section or not. KamakaziSparow 20:20, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

DavaEdit

"Dava" means city. Many Dacian cities end in dava, similary to Ninendava. E.G. Arcidava, Pelendava. — Unsigned comment by 89.137.73.68 (talk) on 13 July 2009

That's a guess. No other source has anything like that. "Dava" means "gave" in Spanish and it seems to be used in Polish too, so I'm not convinced. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 04:58, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Gaiar AlataEdit

I removed the definitions for Gaiar and Alata for two reasons: one, there should be a reference for all words, and two, a Google search didn't pull up anybody else with those definitions. Since the zone is also called the "Savage Garden", it would seem more likely that is the translation, but even that would be a guess. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:03, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Welke and Kynd, switched translations?Edit

Are we sure Welke means "child" and Kynd means "sky" and not the other way around? The reference cited just mentions that "Welkynd" literally means "sky child", and as seen with other words around here the composite words tend to be translated as 'part 2' of the 'part 1' or 'part 1'['s]'part 2'. If then, Welke meant "child" and Kynd means "sky", Welkynd would be translated as Sky of the Child or Child's Sky, which...doesn't make too much sense. Not to mention "kind" is a word for child in many Germanic languages. It just struck me as a bit odd. Griffinsong 14:39, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes we go with rotgut (A type of rot, not gut), and other times we go with football (a type of ball, not foot). --Uniblab 07:45, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Word order can vary, but is there any indication of which one it is, in this case? The source text listed for "Welkynd" does not indicate what order the words are in, it just says "Welkynd" literally means "Sky Child". The separate words do not have a source listed, so is there even any way to know for sure which is which or is it just an assumption? Griffinsong 09:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

The reason why it's 'Kynd' is translated as 'sky' is because 'Kynd' is probably derived from Kyne/Kynareth, the Goddess of the Sky/Air. The Old Ye Bard 21:47, 20 October 2009‎

Surely "kynd" must mean "child" seeing as a similar word ("kiin") is found in Dovah, and means the same sort of thing? — Unsigned comment by 86.1.67.114 (talk) at 18:34 on 17 February 2012‎

Did someone switch around the translations for Wel and Kynd? Currently it says that Wel means Sky and Kynd means Child, while it used to be commonly accepted that it was the other way around. The rule concerning compound words should be "Noun1 of Noun2" in my opinion, just like in words like Lattanya (light of life) or Twyllvarlais (well of stars), hence "Child of the Sky". Feynn (talk) 00:34, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

The source is Magic from the Sky: Welkynd Stones [Aldmeris - "sky stone," "heaven stone"; literally, "sky child"]. —Legoless (talk) 02:37, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

The source translates the compound word as a whole, without breaking it down. In general, some compound words, like those Feynn listed above, do seem to follow the "Noun1 of Noun2" pattern, but some others follow the reverse pattern, for example all words ending in "-sel", which always mean "Hall of...", or "Anyadena", which means "Life Treaty" or "Treaty of Life". In the case of Welkynd, since there seem to be no other source which could help ascertain the truth for either part of the word, I'd opt for just leaving one entry "Welkynd": "Sky Child". --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 19:08, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

question about Auri-ElEdit

Auri-El - An Ayleid God (Aka Auriel, king of the Aldmer) this is in the section, but according to Brellin he calls Akatosh Ari-El, saying Auri-El, or Akatosh as you call him apperently Auri-El is Akatosh in Valenwood.--Arch-Mage Matt 04:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Auri-El (Auriel) is the elven Akatosh, who was the High King of Alinor according to legend and ascended to heaven in front of his people. The Ayleids worship the Aedra, so they worship Auri-El, but calling him an Ayleid god isn't correct.132.162.76.105 22:30, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Both the Altmer and Bosmer claim to have descended from Auri-El, so that gives the reason for the relation. –Elliot ^talk 05:59, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Lipsand TarnEdit

Tarn means a mountain lake or pool, therefore is it possible that Lipsand Tarn has something to do with a lake/pool or if taken less literally an Ayleid well or at least that it had something to do with it before it was destroyed ? Also if someone more knowledgeable about Ayleidoonic grammar could help with the Ayleid phrases here please ? --TheAlbinoOrc 21:35, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Cyrod, Cyrodill and CeledillEdit

I was looking at these and it seemed that there could also be and alternate translation for Cyrod in which it could either mean heart or land and ill could mean heart or land. This would then make Cyrodill heart land which would make sense because it is in the center of the continent and it was the homeland of the Aylied. This would also make Celedill another land or something heart or of the heart. This is more an educated guess right now but I have been looking into it. --Foise 17:56, 17 February 2010‎

This would fit in-game lore also, although in Oblivion only the central section of Cyrodiil is actually called the heartland.--TheAlbinoOrc 19:12, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Ayleid=Latin??Edit

I've noticed that a few of these words are from latin, av is from etc. Maybe more words could be created using a latin translation, I think it might be worth a try....

unless I'm being retarted here and people figured this out 10 years ago... — Unsigned comment by 75.105.64.52 (talk) at 03:49 on 26 February 2010‎

We do know that some of the words are from latin but I don't think anyone's ever actually used a latin translator on any of them (at least not on this scale) so someone should probably try it (I really don't have time right now, even for one section or I would start working on it).--TheAlbinoOrc 14:53, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

More of it comes from Elvish - JRR Tolkien's invented languages - which in turn borrowed a lot from Finnish. An earlier poster had some good examples here. RoBoT 15:16, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I ran some of the words through a Latin to English translator and all of the words I did didn't have a translation. To be sure I searched through multiple translators and dictionaries and none of the words I searched came up with results. If I had more time I would have done all of the words we have in the Ayleid dictionary but alas I don't. also "av" does not mean from in Latin "de" means from in Latin. I hope this helped. --Foise 17:54, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

ok that was norqegian av was from...not sure how I got messed up on that but anyway... — Unsigned comment by 99.196.0.56 (talk) at 04:38 on 5 March 2010‎

Meaning of Carac?Edit

Since Carac Agaialor is Mankar Camoran's palace (no clue about Agaialor - something-dark?), and since Garlas Malatar has a Carac Abaran (Abaran - forbidden king?), would it be far fetched to guess Carac means castle, palace, stronghold? (where else would a king - real like Umaril or pretend like Camoran - make his dwelling?) — Unsigned comment by 108.21.186.35 (talk) at 16:45 on 31 August 2010‎

Yes, but a Wiki isn't about speculation (or "guessing") its about hard proven fact. That's not to say that speculation hasn't been posted in the definition sections, simply that it shouldn't be put there. Auri-El Reborn 00:51, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Agaialor can be loosely translated as "I fear dark" (though, the exact translation would probably be different when combined). 130.253.29.121 20:42, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

Hebrew in Ayleid LanguageEdit

In Ayleidic, adonai means "lordly". In Hebrew, it means "lord," and is one of the names for God. — Unsigned comment by 108.21.186.35 (talk) at 21:09 on 31 August 2010‎

Hmmm that's interesting. But... pardon my rudeness and nerdiness, but it's "Ayleidoon" not "Ayleidic". But as a side note, some users have speculated that Bethesda may have based much of the Ayleid customs and language on that of the Israelis/Hebrews. But, as I stated in the above section, I'm not exactly a big fan of "speculation". Auri-El Reborn 00:47, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Help with Imperatives?Edit

I'm making a fanfic (story about oblivion) and I need help with imperatives. I wasn't sure what the heck an imperative WAS, so I looked it up, and I'm guessing it means 'Giving an authoritative command'. (And I know a writer should know what all these terms mean, but I'm the kind that just DOES without knowing what it's called.) So, anyway, does this mean you add 'voy' to ANY sentence where you're telling somebody to do something? IE: Would 'Mitta an sel' (Enter the hall) become 'Mittavoy an sel'? And if someone was to just simply say 'Mitta', would it still become 'Mittavoy'? And since it's an imperative, would I still have to say 'Mittavoy an' even though 'Enter the' doesn't make sense? 64.203.232.18 18:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

From what I understand of the Ayleid language, you do have to add "voy" to every imperative sentence. I believe the sentence would become "Mittavoy an sel".--Kalis Agea^{Yes? Contrib E-mail} 19:07, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll take a wild guess and say that you don't need to add an to it if it doesn't require a 'the' in it. If that makes sense to anyone. XD Thank you.64.203.232.18

MiscarcandEdit

This name seems REALLY familiar... my brain keeps pushing me to think of Final Fantasy X... Blackleaf31 (talk) 00:34, 31 May 2012 (GMT)

If you really want to know if it sounds like something familiar, the forums would be the best place to look. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 18:01, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Thoughts on The Ayleid LanguageEdit

I've been going through a lot of books and I've found some words that aren't explicitly stated as Ayleid, but clearly are, such as in 'The Monomyth', The author reference the Grey Maybe, with a side note that 'Nirn' is the grey maybe "in the Ehlnofex". Since Ehlno is mortal in Ayleid, it can probably be inferred that Ehlnofex is also Ayleid (And thus so is Fex). In this context, it is likely that Fex means tongue or language, but I'll search for more sources for that. This same book also references et'ada as "original spirits." Since ada is god, et can be inferred to mean original or first. I'm also unsure as to the extent of the differences between Aldmeris and Ayleidoon. The book describes Lorkhan as an Aldmeri name meaning "doom drum." Since Lor is dark in Ayleid (and dark/doom are similar enough in connotation for them to be comparable) khan (or some form there of) must then be Drum. There is also some evidence that Aka (or ak) is First, as in Akatosh (first god) and Satak (First serpent), though this may be a completely different language. I'll add more to this later as I read more (And feel free to point out where I'm wrong :) ) 130.253.29.121 21:28, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

I would like to point out, as it was in Before the Ages of Man that the ayleid specifically endeavored to preserve the Ehlnofey language. Ralok (talk) 17:36, 24 November 2012 (GMT)

Ayleid language in Elder Scrolls OnlineEdit

I'm sure there are other parts of the game where it's used, but while adventuring in Glenumbra, I found an Ayleid ghost during the "A Mysterious Curio" quest in the Covenant alliance. He speaks what appears to be gibberish but upon further examination is actually proper Ayleid as we know it.

Using what words we know and substituting them in, we get dialogue that is consistent with what he is trying to do, namely make you leave:

"Ma seate... auta! Auta!"

What <seate>... <auta! Auta!>

"seate" could be the possessive form of "seat", pronounced "say-aht".

"Tarcellanen?"

Wood

Shadow (Translation for Cele, may be incorrect)

Time

You

Potentially a compound word, as in: Tar - Cel - La - Nen?

"Ge epea veyn! Eve as gravia lambe ye lael."

"lael" could potentially be "La and El", which are "Time" and a title of godlike status.

"Ne goria! Heca! Delia ye metana Gandra Limbe, sino."

Never obscured! Begone! <Delia> and <metana> Gifts <Lambe> here.

If I had to guess, metana is "<something> is"; literally the compound word "meta na", based on current Ayleidoon translations.

Warrior7 (talk) 17:32, 29 June 2014 (GMT)

"Ge epea veyn! Eve as gravia lambe ye lael" is something like "It speaks (something)! (Something) with ugly tongue and throat."

"Ne goria! Heca! Delia ye metana Gandra Limbe, sino" is something like "No secrets! Begone! (Something) and bring the Gift Tongue, here," With Gift Tongue being the golden tongue totem you use to translate his speech. — Unsigned comment by 99.236.227.236 (talk) at 04:29 on 17 June 2015 (UTC)

BisnenselEdit

Hello Ayleidoon translators, Im here from the Dwemeris translators. We noticed that the Falmer language on Calcelmos stone is very much similar (in words, spelling and grammar) to Ayleidoon, and have translated parts of it. Now, in that falmer text, there is a word which says: molagnenseliye. I suspect the ye part being the writers missing a space, or the space just being too small to notice. Anyway, someone translated it as Halls of Fire, but the observative amoungst you might notice that it is molag NEN seli. Now, I tried to find the translation of nen, but it is blank on your page, then I looked at the ayleid settlement list you have here, and noticed Bisnensel (The only one containing nen) which apparently means New Water Hall. As such, I made the logical conclusion that nen means either new, or water. Taken into the context of the text (Which suspect is about the enslavement of the falmer by the dwemer), Halls of New Fire or New Halls of Fire doesnt make much sense. But Halls of Water Fire does, Water Fire being the way the Falmer name Steam, so molagnenseli would be Halls of Steam. Anyway, do with this what you want, if it is enough evidence, you can change nen to mean water, but it might not be enough to convince you. Just thought you guys might want to know this. (Also, those interested in Ayleid should read Calcelmos stone, sure, the second half is Falmer, but as I said before, it is close enough to Ayleidoon to be readable. Kamica (talk) 23:27, 5 September 2014 (GMT)

I have translated much of the falmer and the Dwemer from that tablet. I think your conclusions are correct on nen, but I disagree with your method in a way. Ayleidoon is pretty linear for literal translations, unlike dwemer. Bisnensel meaning new water hall really only has one way of parsing it, which is bis=new, nen=water, sel=hall. So I would say that nen=water, but I think the "Halls of New Fire" would have made just as much sense, given the propensity of dwemer ruins to sit on lava flows, especially in vvardenfel. Regardless, I do like your conclusion of Halls of Water Fire equaling Halls of Steam, but I'm not sure we should use that on the page, since it is OR. I'll add the translation for water and new though. Jeancey (talk) 03:10, 6 September 2014 (GMT)

I tend to give my suspicions as well as my findings, so other people can do some more research into it, and apply their own knowledge to it. It's also the reason why I rarely edit the main page, but leave that to other people to do (Because they probably know more than me). And it's good to know that Ayleid is generally in the same order as English (atleast when it comes to its conglomerate words). Thanks for noting that, it should help me with further translation attempts 101.98.220.118 05:04, 6 September 2014 (GMT)

"Ayleidoon", are you sure ?Edit

Hello,

I wonder, where it's said that "Ayleidoon" is the name of the language of the Ayleids?
If I read the sources :

a combined force of Daedraphile warriors against the traditionalist Barsaebics of Ayleidoon.

Lore:Ayleid Survivals in Valenwood

and he listed his bloodline in the Ayleidoon and spoke of his father

Lore:The Song of Pelinal, v 7

a scholar studying dialects of the Ayleidoon language

Online:Ancient Stones, Ancient Words

but the dialect and some of the characters in the orthography were previously unknown, even to scholars of Ayleidoon.

Lore:The Vanishing Crux

feathers and magic beads, which were the markings of the Ayleidoon,

Lore:The Song of Pelinal, v 2

They were the bright crystals of the Ayleidoon.

Lore:Chronicles of Ehtelar, Vol. 1

From what I read here, the term "Ayleidoon" defines the civilization, not the language.

The Wild Elves speak a variation of Old Cyrodilic and not Tamrielic

Lore:The Wild Elves

"Old Cyrodilic", here we have a name for this language. Daggerfall Chronicles says that the "Cyrodilic" was the official language for the Reman Empire by 1E 2813. That's mean that the "Old Cyrodilic" is the language that precedes the Cyrodilic of the Reman Empire.

And if you read this old conversation between Kurt Kuhlmann (Hasphat Antabolis) and Micheal Kirkbride (Temple Zero Society) we learn that the "Cyrodiic" is a language derivated from the Aldmeri, and used by Alessia herself.
"Cyrodiic" is the name of the language of the Ayleid (The Ayleids lived in "Cyrod" after all). During the Alessian Empire it became the Cyro-Nordic as the language evolve : the fusion of the Cyrodiic and the Nordic. When the fusion was finished, we obtain the Cyrodilic.

I know it's an OGG content, but it's the only true name of this language given to us. "Ayleidoon" isn't the language name, clearly. Or at least, we call it "Old Cyrodilic" (like in Daggerfall) or "Ayleidoon language" (like in ESO), but "Ayleidoon" alone means something different.
--Lady freyja (talk) 11:42, 10 September 2014 (GMT)

"The Vanishing Crux" has the line "even to scholars of Ayleidoon", which is an explicit naming of the language. This overrides any oog content whomever the author of such is or was. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 12:03, 10 September 2014 (GMT)

Yes, and the "scholars of Ayleidoon" means what ? That those scholars study the "ayleidoon", generally, if we study a civilization, we study it's language too.

The point is, this page is called "ayleidoon" since its creation in 2006, and in 2006, we only have the Song of Pelinal as a source. The "The Vanishing Crux" came from ESO, out in 2014.

--Lady freyja (talk) 12:29, 10 September 2014 (GMT)

No, this page was named "Ayleid Language" until The Vanishing Crux was read. If you read it properly the scholars are mention in relation to the study of languages and dialect. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 12:32, 10 September 2014 (GMT)

It's also mentioned several times in ESO, such as this loading screen: "These ruins have a bad reputation in nearby Woodhearth—which is not surprising, considering their name in Ayleidoon means "final death."" —Legoless (talk) 13:16, 10 September 2014 (GMT)

If you look at the way english works, German Language, or French Language is perfectly fine in differentiating French people from French Language... however, you would never say "I speak French language." You would just say "I speak French." Ayleidoon refers to the culture, and the language. There is no reason it shouldn't refer to one or the other. We have a page on the Ayleid race, so we don't have to worry about disambiguation, thus there is no reason to add the implied "language" when no one would say that while speaking. Jeancey (talk) 19:06, 10 September 2014 (GMT)

ES:O TextsEdit

I found out there are some texts which have Ayleidoon words (and stuff) that havent been incorporated yet into the page. So here are a few links that should help.

First up, there is the Loriasel tablet, here is the Ayleidoon version: http://uesp.net/wiki/Online:Loriasel_Tablet,_Entry_1 and the translated version: http://uesp.net/wiki/Online:Loriasel_Tablet,_Entry_2.

Note that Irraie is a name (a Winged Twilight to be exact). Also racuvar(Cast Down) has an added ima at the end, which seems to translate to "who was"(?).

Then there is the less helpful Remnant of Light http://uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Remnant_of_Light This seems to indicate (strangely enough) that autaracu alata means Remnent of Light, but it makes little grammatical sense to me.

I found these while trying to translate the Falmer text on Calcelmos stone. (Which all evidence seems to point to being exactly the same as Ayleidoon except just a different alphabet)Kamica (talk) 12:23, 8 May 2015 (GMT)

Deriving meaning from known roots ("Can"/Magic)Edit

There are some translated and untranslated words that share a root: 'can'.

Can = Magic, Call

Cano

Canomora = Daedric herald (literally, "call(er) forest" aka forest mage?)

Canohaelia

Canosel

If we know some of these roots, can't we add some kind of reference at the bottom that notes the words are assumptive translations and just roll with what we know?

Can = magic/call

then why not

Cano = "magic caller" = mage

(If this is the case, then the suffix -o could then be "person who does something", baker, ruler, etc)

Haelia = Terrible

and therefore

Canohaelia = terrible mage = necromancer

Sel = hal

therefore

Canosel = mage hall (like a university, etc) — Unsigned comment by Skyrim-junkie (talk • contribs) at 20:12 on 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Ayleidoon to FalmerEdit

This has been marked as a question that needs to be answered.

If you’ve obviously noticed, Falmer is near-directly derived from Ayleidoon, so we use Ayleidoon to translate Falmer. Would this allow the legitimate claim that all Falmer translations from Calcelmo’s stone in Skyrim could technically be used to translate Ayleidoon as well? Arknzd the Deep Elf (talk) 01:31, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

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