Skyrim talk:Quest Timing

TG vs DBEdit

I just added the Thieves Guild starter quests onto the page, in spite of a note previously stating "They provide almost no real benefit to the player and will cause increases to multiple skills." That note has bugged for a while, in particular since the pros/cons are ultimately very similar to the Dark Brotherhood -- if one is on the page, I think both should be.

First, let me be clear that I do understand the page's emphasis on avoiding skill usage. Admittedly, at first I didn't. But then I started to create a maxed-out character -- playing on maximum difficulty and very much over-strategizing about how to do it. With that character I wanted to only put skill increases into combat-related skills, but for the first half of the game I had no ability to survive any combat. The result is that I've payed for five training sessions at every level in order to train all primary combat skills up to 90. I quickly learned how my strategy could be ruined by accidental skill increases in speech or lockpicking (and had to delete a week's worth of gameplay). I took advantage of many points mentioned on the Quest Timing page. However, I also chose to join the Thieves Guild -- mainly for the Thieves Guild Hood, and also only I after I realized that the skill usage requirements were overstated.

As for why TG actually belongs on the page:

• The TG quests are such an obvious addition to the page that it was necessary to add a note about them. If everyone is going to look for that information here, then it should instead just be added to the section, and readers should be free to decide for themselves whether the advantages are worth it.

• The armor you get for joining the Thieves Guild is a significant bonus. In terms of armor rating and ease-of-obtaining, it's the same as the Shrouded Armor that was already emphasized on the page. The difference is in the enchantments, at which point it's largely player preference/style of play which is going to determine which set is better. In my opinion, the fact that it's the easiest way to obtain a helmet/hood with Fortify Barter makes it very valuable.

• Access to fences is a significant bonus that many players will consider to be a priority (and the only other way to obtain it is to get your speech to 90 and sink five perks into a skill tree that provides absolutely no benefit to combat).

• The skill usage is not that different from the Dark Brotherhood, and in fact can ultimately be avoided more effectively than the DB skill usage. In particular, the DB quest line requires you to make two kills, and there's no way to get a follower to make either of those kills, whereas a follower such as Faendal can easily take out the first two Ratway bandits while you lurk in the darkness. Not to mention, I'm guessing that the vast majority of readers could care less about unnecessary skill usage, so it should not be the sole factor determining what belongs on the page.

--Nephele^Talk 18:24, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

You're wrong on the last point: the DB kills don't require skill use at all. Grelod has 1HP (not sure about the shack victims, but they're bound so it's irrelevant) so you can do them both with your fists. :D Also, TG armor isn't on par with Shrouded, because Shrouded has a 25pt bonus: you're thinking of Nightingale. I think your first point is probably a good enough argument now though, given the skill-avoidance option for A Chance Arrangement. Aliana 00:08, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Riverwood's love triangeEdit

The quest to do immediately. No skills needed. You've got a follower to protect you on the road to Whiterun and later in the cave. He is and a teacher as well. Makes the start of the game easy at master's level of difficulty. --93.73.19.163 22:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Done.
--DayDreamer 02:43, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Ingredients for Ingun Black-BriarEdit

Collecting 20 Nirnroot/Deathbell/Nightshade for Ingun is technically a delivering items misc. quest, I suppose. But I would consider the reward "exceptional" for the amount of effort required--free potions and poisons every few days in exchange for picking some flowers. The Deathbell and Nirnroot are trivial to acquire; take the carriage to Morthal/Solitude and pick them in the swamp and along the waterfront. No skills should be required as a follower can take out any mudcrabs or spiders you stumble over. Sarethi Farm also has at least half the Nirnroot you need fairly close to Riften. The deathbell is less common but there are enough to be found within the safe walls of Solitude and the Riften and Falkreath graveyards. 71.178.115.32 17:16, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

The deathbell's actually the easiest. You can get a carriage to Morthal & Solitude and get nearly all of it.

The nirnroot is the hardest. Sarethi Farm has 9 nirnroot, Morthal has one; every other nirnroot is found growing in the wild.

Nightshade is scattered around. There's a lot of it near Falkreath, and a good deal in Solitude. None around Morthal.

The biggest problem with it as a quest is the amount of Alchemy experience you're giving up. Deathbell is an ingredient for Slow poisons, Nirnroot is an ingredient for Invisibility poisons, and Nightshade is an ingredient for Damage Magicka Regen. None of the three can be mixed with each other effectively (well Deathbell and Nightshade give Damage Health, which is useful in combat but doesn't produce expensive potions) but with 20 Salt Piles for Slow, 20 Blue Mountain Flowers for Damage Magicka Regen, and 20 Luna Moth Wings for Invisibility - all easier to find than 20 of the corresponding ingredients for this quest - you can produce 60 high-value potions which will grant a lot of Alchemy experience, taking a 15/20 Alchemy character up into the mid-30s at the very least, and probably into the 40s. --Morrolan (talk) 01:04, 21 September 2013 (GMT)

I think the point of completing this quest right away is to maximize the reward by receiving your first batch of free potions early in the game. You are correct in that you will be giving up quite a bit of Alchemy experience by giving these ingredients to Ingun, but you can easily make up for it by picking piles of red mountain flowers and tundra cotton in one trip through Whiterun hold and crafting a bunch of Fortify Magicka potions. Alchemy experience is just too easily come by to use this as a criterion to disqualify Few and Far Between from the list of quests to start immediately. --Xyzzy ^Talk 07:28, 21 September 2013 (GMT)

Fortify Magicka is worth a lot less than those three effects (about a quarter as much). You would need to make about 200-300 potions, and there isn't that much tundra cotton in Whiterun. A better bet is Resist Fire potions, which are worth about the same as Fortify Magicka potions but can be made from many very common ingredients (Bone Meal, Dragon Tongue, Elves Ear, Fly Amanita, Mudcrab Chitin, Snowberries). But even Snowberries take a while to collect hundreds of. Seriously, my issue with this quest is that with those 60 ingredients, if you use them properly, you won't need to buy potions at all because once your Alchemy gets up around 50 or so you make better potions than you can buy at low levels, when the Ultimate potions aren't available yet.

The quest is fine if you don't want to play an alchemist. If you're trying to avoid leveling the crafting skill, then it makes sense. --Morrolan (talk) 13:38, 21 September 2013 (GMT)

I was just using the Fortify Magicka potion as a quick example of how easy it is to get Alchemy experience. I agree with you that the rewards for this quest are pretty paltry compared with others in this article. It may not qualify for inclusion here based solely on that. --Xyzzy ^Talk 15:58, 21 September 2013 (GMT)

The random potions have the potential to be useful at all levels, making its reward far more useful than Balgruuf's Greatsword, nevermind that its listed to do asap. There are 150+ plants for each of the items requested, and most respawn, so there is no real loss of plants for Alchemy. And there are lots of other better ways to spam Alchemy training and create good potions, chaurus eggs and luna moth wings are far easier to gather than the limited nirnroot, and combining salt piles with your "depleted" stock of deathbells for slow. The main thing to remember is that all these plants regrow, meaning any argument about losing valuable experience is flawed from its inception. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 16:37, 21 September 2013 (GMT)

(←) Chaurus eggs require dungeon crawling, usually near chaurus which are pretty deadly at low levels. Nirnroot, while it's scattered around, is mostly available in low-danger areas. And yes, all plants regrow, but it still takes time collecting them. Nearly all dungeons respawn too but we wouldn't classify a quest that had as its objective "Clear 60 Dungeons" as something to do immediately either. And yes, the random potions are somewhat more useful than Balgruuf's Greatsword (which just provides a low-level greatsword for free, only useful if you're a 2H character at low levels), but I thought the only reason that quest got listed is because it's incredibly easy to start. (Supposedly. I've never actually been able to activate it. But that's another discussion.)
The random potions are completely random. Most will not be directly useful for any given PC, as they contain a lot of fortify skill effects and the like, which are only useful if you happen to get a potion that fortifies a skill you actually use. So most of the time when you have this quest completed, essentially you're just getting some free gold and Speech experience from periodic visits to Elgrim's Elixirs. It is handy getting the free potions right there in the place where you can sell them immediately. --Morrolan (talk) 21:14, 21 September 2013 (GMT)

I feel like this is a weird amount of discussion to devote to this easy quest. Pick flowers; get free stuff. You continue to get the free stuff FOREVER. Don't have any use for the free potions you get? Sell them, come back in a week and get more. It's a constant source of potions and/or money you can start at lv. 1, for anyone of any skill level in anything. Alchemy supplies are not so scarce in this game to warrant such intense scrutiny of this quest. 98.204.42.6 18:56, 11 November 2013 (GMT)

Atronach ForgeEdit

This is the prerequisite for the Under Saarthal quest, which is necessary for the Forbidden Legend quest line (although those may be delayed indefinitely). Joining the College is also the only sensible way to discover the Atronach Forge. Recipes for the forge are only found in random loot and only start to appear at all after you visit the forge and complete stage 50 of Good Intentions.

This section does not belong here. The requirements for this section are for minimal skill usage. Good intentions is a full two quests later, and Under saarthal must be completed, which requires massive skill usage to bring down the draugr at the end and stay alive, because this is for new low level characters. The Silencer 01:58, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

It seems to me this is a matter of taste. These are mentioned as reasons for doing the First Lessons quest early. They aren't requirements for doing the subsequent quests immediately afterward.
--DayDreamer 02:50, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

But why do First Lessons for the reasons of those later quests, then? "Do X because it will let you do Y later" brings up the question "Why not just do X later, right before Y?" Those reasons don't seem very good for doing the quest right away. --Velyanthe 02:56, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

acces to the forge is a reason for doing the quest first lesons. I put it back but minimised it. The Silencer 02:58, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

No One Escapes Cidhna Mine!Edit

I was thinking that the Forsworn Conspiracy & No One Escapes Cidhna Mine should be on the "do as soon as possible" section. They involve little other than talking to people, plus one brawl that is easy to win even if low-level as long as you have health potions, and a bit of pickpocketing which I could do at Level 18 Pickpocket skill. Either of the quest rewards are things you want as early as possible in the game. The Armor of the Gods is excellent enchanted Light Armor for low-level players (but quite naff in comparison to stuff you can either buy once you've saved up a few thousand gold, or make with high enough Enchanting skill), and the Silver-Blood ring's +15 to Smithing skill is a good early boost (but useless once you already have a full set of Fortify Smithing equipment).

What does anyone else think? I don't want to add it without agreement. Baratron 18:43, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I say yes but it needs to be noted that there are options to minimise skill use, standard playthrough will involve some combat exiting cidhna mine. The Silencer 18:54, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Done.
--DayDreamer 20:02, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

OrderingEdit

It seems that the order of quests needs improvement. If the desire is to minimize skill usage, fighting my way from place to place isn't a good idea. Would it be OK to re-order based on easiest travel? And adding travel notes?
--DayDreamer 15:14, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Done.
--DayDreamer 03:08, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Ideally, this should be done in a spreadsheet. I understand the desire to see them in the order noted, but my first thought was that I wanted to see them in order of, well, that they'd likely be done. Really, the first quest you want to do is Lovely Letter, and it's next to last on the list. Not quite sure how this could be sorted out (if indeed it could be at all), but it'd help to have an order of "progress" or something like that. Of course, that could be subjective, so it may not be doable. I'm working on a "guide" like that myself, but I'd like others to think about it too. I wouldn't see a problem in creating a "recommended" order because there's nothing forcing people to follow it.--TheBBC American (talk) 22:44, 20 October 2013 (GMT)

The only non-subjective ordering I can think of is alphabetical, and we shouldn't really be "recommending" any order to do the quests in. That's the principle of an encyclopedic wiki. Users can take what they see here and apply it how they see fit to their gameplay. --Xyzzy ^Talk 23:29, 20 October 2013 (GMT)

(Editing an earlier, lengthier response) "Recommend" was probably the wrong word to use, but there are implicit recommendations in the existence of the page itself and in the way the information is grouped. Implying a recommendation probably can't be entirely avoided, but more of what I wanted was a means of easily re-arranging the information by criteria that would help someone decide which order to do them in to suit their goals. As it stands, the page is helpful, but not to the extent that its title implies. Anyway, there probably aren't enough people who would be playing it any more to make the effort worthwhile. --TheBBC American (talk) 00:26, 25 October 2013 (GMT)

I agree that there is a bit of inherit subjectivity in this article, but trying to reorder them into a suggested chronological order would be going way too far. IMO, the only reordering we should do would be to alphabetize them within their existing sections and leave it at that. --Xyzzy ^Talk 01:50, 25 October 2013 (GMT)

Section Starting with "Delayed Burial"Edit

Addresses too many quests at once and so the subsections are confusing. On first reading I thought completing "Delayed Burial" in Cicero's favor would not allow the "Destroy the Dark Brotherhood" quest to be had. Not true, it depends on your choice during "With Friends Like These..."

Topic should be split.

Delayed Burial Skill Use: One Speech use to side with Cicero Pros: Cicero will be friendly when you join the Dark Brotherhood. Cons: Cicero will be unfriendly when you join the Dark Brotherhood (not a quest-stopper). Also results in the slaughter of Vantus Loreius and his wife Curwe at Loreius Farm. [Citation: "Delayed Burial" page] Notes: Not available if you complete "Innocence Lost" first. Either outcome adds 1 to the count of "Side Quests Completed" to your Journal.

Innocence Lost Skill Use: Lockpicking (Novice), minor Combat or Magic skill increase Pros: Completion triggers the "With Friends Like These..." quest, starting the Dark Brotherhood questline. Adds 1 to the count of "Quests Completed" to your Journal. Cons: Involves slaying a humanoid that does not attack you first

With Friends Like These... Skill Use: minor Speech increase or possible major Combat/Magic skill increase Pros: (Obey Astrid) Receive Shrouded Armor apparel (superior to even Dragonscale at low skill levels), a word for Marked for Death, several minor benefits Cons: (Slay Astrid) She is not easy to defeat (causes skill level-ups) for those who would rather destroy the Dark Brotherhood. Notes: The word for Marked for Death is not available if you slay Astrid because you cannot enter the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary [needs confirmation, no relevant Note appears on the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary page] — Unsigned comment by 97.69.173.184 (talk) at 20:12 on 7 April 2012

Hmm, no option to edit the previous section. The formatting didn't work out either (which is why I don't edit Main pages).

Anyway - the Notes section of "With Friends Like These" is incorrect. You still gain access to the Sanctuary via the "Destroy the Dark Brotherhood" quest. Plus, you can get that nifty armor from Astrid's corpse. But note that it is Light Armor and may not be worthwhile obtaining for Heavy Armor users.

97.69.173.184 12:37, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

I haven't split the sections, but it would make sense, considering some of the Thieves Guild quests have been separated. I have, however, reworded the current info on the DB quests to reflect that the sanctuary is still accessible. I would like to point out that finishing Innocence Lost does not prevent Delayed Burial; finishing With Friends Like These... or entering the sanctuary is what does that. I also don't think that it's notable to point out skill-ups from fighting Astrid, since fighting a single NPC will probably not raise your skill by a whole lot; if you go that way, then completing your contracts would be preferable.

If you are looking at changes to a page (by clicking "diff" when going to the page), then you cannot edit sections of the page. I've fixed the formatting for you. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 15:31, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Velyanthe: I think you've made it far more confusing with the rewrite. "Destroy the Dark Brotherhood!" is certainly not a "quest to do early and requiring minimal skill use", and frankly it belongs in "Quests to NEVER do", because all it does is remove a dozen quests (and unique items) from the game. Aliana 00:18, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

I have not done it and thus didn't know its relative difficulty--most quests are leveled, anyway. I would argue that it should not go under "quests to never do", because if your character does not join the DB, it certainly is a desirable option. For unstealthy/good characters, it's a good quest to do at some point. I also left it in because the listed rewards are the same, though I suppose that could go in as a separate note. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 00:29, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Ah, no: the immediate rewards are the same, but you lose all the future DB quest reward items (as well as the quests themselves, obviously). Aliana 00:46, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

why is there no section for Delayed Burial anymore?

Quests to Delay - Dragon RisingEdit

It's tough to "delay" if you have completed the Bleak Falls Barrow quest by speaking with Farengar. Dragon Rising is auto-triggered when you do this. If you don't speak with the Jarl but then go anywhere near the Western Watchtower, the Jarl convo part is auto-completed and you receive his Bleak Falls Barrow reward automatically (Patch 1.5, needs confirmation).

My suggestion - add to the Main Page - "The best way to delay Dragon Rising is to NOT complete the Bleak Falls Barrow quest by speaking with Farengar" Han 18:43, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Another Suggestion - finish the main quest up to The Horn of Jurgen Windcaller. A Blade In The Dark will start automatically but you can delay meeting Delphine at Kynesgrove. With this delay, you will not encounter dragons randomly, but will ONLY encounter dragons at dragon lairs. This let you learn all 3 words of unrelenting force and explore skyrim freely without dragons attacking you.— Unsigned comment by 175.136.113.172 (talk) at 06:45 on 25 April 2012

This is untrue. Random dragons can attack right after killing the dragon in Dragon Rising. As you complete more of the main quest, more dragon mounds get activated, but the wandering dragons are there right away once Mirmulnir is dead. --Morrolan (talk) 04:47, 22 September 2013 (GMT)

I followed the guidance of anon user (175.136.113.172) where they did not meet up with Delphine at Kynesgrove and the random dragon attacks we kept to a minimum. I only found dragons near dragon lairs. Strangely, on other play throughs where I stopped the main quest after killing Mirmulnir I still had a very large amount of random dragon encounters (especially at the College of Winterhold). I will test the Kynesgrove scenario again. There may be something in the scripts related to The Horn of Jurgen Windcaller. MyBreton (talk) 16:21, 23 February 2014 (GMT)

I can verify that there is a significant decrease in random dragon encounters while "A Blade in the Dark" is active. The only dragons were found near dragon lairs. This allows for much more controlled play with access to dragon souls, dragon scales, and dragon plate while moving about Skyrim and Solstien.MyBreton (talk) 01:56, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

Unfathomable DepthsEdit

I just finished it and the information on the main page is not accurate. The message I receive was something like +15% Smithing (not Tempering) and +25% on Dwarmer Armor (not all Armor). 138.48.18.44 11:42, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

The info for the "Ancient Knowledge" powers says: "As of version 1.3.10.0 Ancient Knowledge gives a 25% bonus while wearing any type of armor (not just Dwarven) and increases effective smithing skill by 15% when tempering weapons and armor instead of giving a Smithing leveling bonus of 15%" and this page says that the effects are bugged and may be fixed by later patches. I'm not sure when that info was added to the page, but it sounds like it may need updating. If someone else can confirm that it has been fixed (I don't see anything in patch notes) the page should be modified to represent this. ABCface^◥ 13:24, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

The Powers page indicates that Ancient Knowledge is still bugged as of the final patch, but in a different way: now it gives a 25% bonus to all armor EXCEPT Dwarven. I haven't tested this myself but the talk page for Powers indicates that someone else has, so I'm changing it in this article to match the other one. 98.204.42.6 19:08, 11 November 2013 (GMT)

Okay, I changed it, but the formatting isn't great so if someone else with better knowledge wants to fix it up that might be good. 98.204.42.6 19:16, 11 November 2013 (GMT)

Pilgrimage QuestEdit

Does anybody else have opinions on where the Pilgrimage quest should go? I moved it to the Quests to Start but not Finish section and reworded it, on the grounds that while you want to start the quest immediately, it's beneficial not to finish it until you've reached Restoration 40, which could be quite some time. Quite understandably, DayDreamer reverted the edit, putting it back into the Quests to Do Immediately section, since you do want to finish the quest at some point. I object to that on the grounds that you don't actually want to do the entire quest immediately, only start it. My thinking is that we should reword one of the two section headings or add yet another one. Personally, I'd vote for rewording, since several of the existing sections have virtually nothing in them already. – Robin Hood↝talk 17:27, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

Actually, quite a few "Quests to Do Immediately" are started, but not finished until much (game days) later: Greatsword for a Great Man, Andurs' Arkay Amulet, etc. I didn't setup the conditions for inclusion in this list. I'm opposed to a new section for delayed finish, but would be open to changing "Do" to "Start". Each quest already has the finishing details. Perhaps we need a special Finishing tag to make finishing clearer?
--DayDreamer (talk) 03:05, 12 September 2012 (GMT)

That makes the most sense to me. If nobody else has any concerns or better suggestions, I'll do that in a couple of days. – Robin Hood↝talk 03:30, 12 September 2012 (GMT)

Break of Dawn - A Reason to Delay this QuestEdit

If you're planning to do a lot of enchanting, there is a very good reason to delay starting the Break of Dawn quest until your character is Level 37. The Corrupted Shades inside Meridia's Temple have leveled souls; once your character reaches Level 37, they drop Grand Souls when killed, and they're easy kills at that. Bring a bunch of empty Grand Soul Gems and your favorite soul trapping weapon, and you can easily fill 15 to 20 of them when doing this quest.

Gator Country (talk) 04:25, 19 October 2012 (GMT)

request for new section, level up/pre requsitesEdit

for quest timing it should be of use to mention quests that have a prerequirment quest (excluding factions/main quest obviously) as well as ones liek Mjoll the lioness that you can nto start until after you talk to quest giver and then level up. failure to do so results in a missed quest opertunity come level 81203.219.85.18 08:00, 12 February 2013 (GMT)

Barbas?!Edit

He's the most irritating follower in the game if you're playing a stealth character. Not only is he not a real follower, i.e. when he can see you the icon goes to an open eye, he constantly jumps into you and pushes you forward. This makes it hard to, say, sneak behind a rock and shoot arrows. I only complete his quest when I want to clear all my misc targets, and when I do I make sure I do it as quickly as possible, setting up the fast travel target in advance for the cave with the axe. Barbas kills me good. --Morrolan (talk) 21:02, 10 March 2013 (GMT)

The page already says that he's desirable for being invulnerable, though his behavior's off. You could elaborate on that if you'd like, of course, but I imagine that might fit better on his page. Vely^►t►e 21:07, 10 March 2013 (GMT)

I'm pretty sure he also witnesses crimes and reports them. Sigh. He's not absolutely terrible if you never crouch, but if you ever want to use stealth, he makes it basically impossible. Which kind of disqualifies him from the description "The best of these by far." --Morrolan (talk) 02:32, 17 March 2013 (GMT)

Yes, I can confirm that he will indeed report crimes. Who ever heard of a Daedric companion who's worried about the crimes you commit? ;) While he does cause your stealth icon to flag you as visible, you can still creep up on people. You're visible to him, not them...it's just annoying that you can't be sure of that except by your target's behaviour. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 06:56, 17 March 2013 (GMT)

Barbas is a Daedric Lord's *conscience*, ie, the one who tries to keep him from doing bad things. It makes perfect sense that he'd report crimes, since that's kinda his job. 151.46.56.25 20:04, 11 April 2013 (GMT)

He's also the only exception to the "one creature follower" rule, in that you can have another dog (or other creature) in addition to Barbas. So if you like having a large party of allies, he's useful for that. (Combined with the Serana glitch allowing 2 NPC followers, and the Twin Souls perk, you can practically have your own little army, though it can make going through doors a real pain sometimes...) — TheRealLurlock (talk) 12:04, 17 March 2013 (GMT)

Civil War QuestlineEdit

It says on the page that it has been known to break certain quest. I know one of these is of course "Blood on the Ice", but are there any others to speak of and why are they not listed on the page. --90.215.30.100 19:15, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

The civil war questline does not break any quests. Blood on the Ice breaks itself in so many different ways it's difficult to count them all. --Morrolan (talk) 21:28, 12 April 2013 (GMT)

Why is this still marked as "needs to be answered"? Morrolan, your answer sounds reasonable. The language on the page says "causes problems" instead of "breaks" anyway. I've read through the bugs and possible alternate scenarios enough to agree that there are choices that would cause problems for certain desired results.--TheBBC American (talk) 01:42, 19 October 2013 (GMT)

Agreed. I think this question has been adequately addressed. I've removed the tag. --Xyzzy ^Talk 05:14, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Pilgrimage: Useless Reward?Edit

Allesandra's Dagger has exactly the same damage stat as any other steel dagger so it doesn't qualify as "better than any other early equivalent item". I removed that line, but I think the entire section should be moved to "Quests To Start But Not Finish", "Quests To Save For Later" (because of the Restoration bug), or even removed. I went straight to Riften and easily had (fine) steel daggers, maces, etc. at only level 4 that did more damage. It is a wieghtless quest item, but daggers don't weigh much anyway. Also, I realize the moving of Pilgrimage has already been discussed, but for different reasons... Thoughts? — Unsigned comment by DpwnShift (talk • contribs) at 18:39 on 6 May 2013‎

Agreed. Off-hand, the only thing different about it from a normal steel dagger is that it does no extra damage for critical hits, so it's actually slightly worse than a steel dagger. I'd be in favour of removing it entirely unless there's some other reason the quest is important. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 18:46, 6 May 2013 (GMT)

Re-organizing questsEdit

I had reverted the alphabetization of quests as this breaks the flow as well as the paragraphs that refer to each other ("above", "After completion", etc). Alphabetization of individual quests by itself serves no purpose. I do think the quests should be re-ordered to make the most sense, where one quest ends where the next optimal timing quest begins, and quests that affect others negatively are listed later and so on, but until then the order should remain the same unless the referring quests/paragraphs are simultaneously updated. DpwnShift (talk) 19:55, 19 May 2013 (GMT)

And I have reverted your edit. Edits shouldn't be undone just because more needs to be done to the page. elliot (talk) 20:00, 19 May 2013 (GMT)

There is no ideal sorting; it's all based on opinion for when each should be done in what order, and they can usually be done concurrently so that'd just make a mess. They were already alphabetically sorted except for the most recently added entry, except the alphabetical sorting included the "a" and "the" at the beginning. The "above" and such can always be reworded. Vely^►t►e 20:09, 19 May 2013 (GMT)

I searched for "above" and "below", and there was only one change that needed to be made. None of the "after completing" wordings that I saw needed adjusted. If there's anything else that's order dependent, feel free to change it appropriately, or mention it here if you're not sure of the best approach. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 04:00, 20 May 2013 (GMT)

Interaction?Edit

According to the article:

there is an interaction with Thane of the Reach and its prerequisite Dungeon Delving cannot be started until level 20. Thus, only the first two (2) investigative steps of Forsworn Conspiracy should be done initially, and the remainder delayed until conditions are ripe.

This is very unclear to me:

-What exactly is the 'interaction'? Is Thonar Silver-Blood being confused with Thongvor Silver-Blood, or am I missing the connection? I have carefully looked at the pages for all four of these quests, and can't seem to find any complication.

-Is the wording trying to say that I have to wait until level 20 to do these two quests: Forsworn Conspiracy & No One Escapes Cidhna Mine?

-Is that what it means by requiring the conditions be "ripe", to wait until level 20?

I completed Forsworn Conspiracy & No One Escapes Cidhna Mine at level 15, but I can always go back and reload an earlier save if I have to; I really don't want something to bite me down the road... Help me understand what is meant and the reasoning behind it and I will try to make the article more clear! --DpwnShift (talk) 09:58, 1 June 2013 (GMT)

I think it is referring to the bug on the Forsworn Conspiracy article about becoming thane before Eltrys is killed, preventing you from being arrested for his murder and being sent to Cidhna mine. I'm not sure, though, because that seems backwards. It seems like because of this, you should complete these 2 quests before becoming thane, whether by completing side quests or capturing the Reach for the Stormcloaks or Imperials. I agree that the note is really vague and should be reworded to be more specific or removed entirely. I'll add a question to the talk page of the editor who added it and see if (s)he can explain better. --Xyzzy ^Talk 16:24, 1 June 2013 (GMT)

The only major bug I've encountered with Forsworn Conspiracy and the civil war is one I'm not really sure of to be honest. If you finish Forsworn Conspiracy (getting the 1000 bounty in the Reach) then use Season Unending or Liberation of Skyrim to give the Reach to the Stormcloaks, then Cidhna Mine never happens because your bounty in the Reach disappears. Even if you later get a bounty, the mine just works as a normal prison, that quest never happens. This seems to make the savegame kinda unstable when it happens, the game seems to get a good bit crashier.

Of course I only have suspicions, no actual proof, that the glitches are because of this particular quest. --Morrolan (talk) 00:14, 7 August 2013 (GMT)

Another followup: if you are Thane of the Reach at the end of the Forsworn Conspiracy, and you try to use your thaneship to avoid jail, it doesn't work. The guards refuse on the grounds that the charges are too serious. --Morrolan (talk) 21:41, 20 September 2013 (GMT)

Many years ago, Xyzzy asked me about this. I'm fairly sure something was fixed by version 1.5 of the Official Skyrim Patch, but I can find nothing in the patch notes. But I always run the Unofficial Patch(es) nowadays, and that makes things much better. So I've removed the sentence entirely. Having recently done it again at level 16, I followed Morrolan's notes, and had no problems. Given the other comments, shouldn't this have a note in Quests that Conflict?
DayDreamer (talk) 01:06, 28 April 2020 (GMT)

Bandits and Taking Care of BusinessEdit

You don't have to fight the bandits in the Ratway. It's possible to sneak past them, or let a follower kill them, and it's only three if you use the stealth route. Usually most people will knock off Drahff, Hewnon and the lowlife by the Beggar book, but Gian is only met if you don't go through the Expert locked door. --Morrolan (talk) 00:38, 19 September 2013 (GMT)

Many of the potential skill uses in these quests can be performed by a follower, but they should still be listed. We should probably add a note at the beginning of the article explaining this. --Xyzzy ^Talk 02:45, 19 September 2013 (GMT)

The Forsworn Conspiracy & Cidhna MineEdit

It's possible to get through it with extremely little skill use. Here's how:

1. Do not visit Nepos. You have to fight quite a few Forsworn if you do.
2. When you visit Thonar, wait for the Forsworn to attack and then shut the door and crouch. Rhiada will probably die but Thonar is essential and will defeat them. Alternatively, run past the battle outside, and come back in a bit later to hear Thonar rant at you.
3. Go back to Eltrys. Get arrested.
4. Side with the Forsworn in Cidhna Mine. You will have to kill Grisvar, but he's very easy; if you have anything over 30 in Conjuration, Destruction, Sneak or One-Handed skills, then the fight is usually over in seconds.
5. Follow the Forsworn out of the mine. They'll kill the spiders and Dwarven enemies for you. Loot as you go.

That's it. Getting the Silver-Blood Ring is quite a bit harder, unless you have a high Sneak skill and can just sneak past the dwarven machines, or if you have a high Alteration skill and Mage Armor to fight them. --Morrolan (talk) 12:46, 19 September 2013 (GMT)

The Civil WarEdit

The only quest conflicts I've been able to find with it are the conflict with Season Unending/Compelling Tribute (Stormcloaks) and No One Escapes Cidhna Mine, and on the other Season Unending/Compelling Tribute (Imperial) and Dampened Spirits. Anything else? Since the Civil War allows you to skip many Thane quest requirements and unlocks the ability to purchase property in cities, arguably it should be something you're encouraged to start early in fact. --Morrolan (talk) 13:14, 19 September 2013 (GMT)

I think specific quests should be named, but the CW should be neither encouraged nor discouraged early on. Vely^►t►e 14:22, 19 September 2013 (GMT)

Alright, well, if anyone else knows of any other quest conflicts besides those two then post them here. In a few weeks I'll make the changes. --Morrolan (talk) 14:30, 19 September 2013 (GMT)

Encouraging or discouraging an early (or later) start may be the wrong way to look at it. But there does seem a need to clarify timing around this in some way, even if just with these few conflicts. I've read through the bugs and I'm still unclear as to what the best course is to get all the results I want from each of these mission lines. So I understand (and am tempted by) the idea of encouraging an early or late start, just to try to simplify this convoluted dynamic. The most glaring downside to holding off on these quests until nearer the end is that you pretty much write off for most of your game a property (Hjerim) that, at the very least, makes things more convenient and, at most, is what many consider to be the most desirable one in the game.--TheBBC American (talk) 01:18, 19 October 2013 (GMT)

No Stone Unturned and ordering questsEdit

Maybe it's expected that readers will read this whole page in one sitting, but I didn't, and -- stupidly -- it didn't occur to me that that would be a smart thing to do. After a few visits to this page, I just now read the No Stone Unturned quest, which notes that it "is only really worth the effort if you get it as early as possible in the game." If that's the case (which I would guess that it is), then it should be listed in the "immediately" section just so it's given that consideration. The obstacles to completing it quickly can be noted, but it should be offered for consideration as an "immediate" quest to pursue because of its objective, practical impact. It isn't about subjectively recommending one quest before another, but about giving preference to quests that have benefits that diminish over time.

As I've suggested in above comments, I realize this ship has probably already sailed, but the fact that a page geared toward the timing of quests doesn't make this kind of distinction more obvious (e.g. the one quest on the page where a player can quickly and skill-lessly acquire a follower is listed next to last in its section) seems counterproductive.--TheBBC American (talk) 23:32, 30 October 2013 (GMT)

I wouldn't object if you wanted to move that one follower quest up in the order for this reason, since it seems reasonable. I would just object to wholesale reordering of the list based on some subjective idea of what order they "should" be done in.

As far as what category to place No Stone Unturned in, I think the distinction between the "Immediate" and "As soon as possible" categories is pretty blurry. Considering the subjective nature of this whole article, if you were to move this quest to the "Immediate" category with an edit summary explaining your reasoning, you would be within your rights. Just keep in mind that someone could just as easily move it back for an equally-valid reason. --Xyzzy ^Talk 02:33, 31 October 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, I guess I'll leave it. I definitely didn't want to suggest a reordering on a subjective "should be done", but I think there's an objective element that's lost in the relatively arbitrary ordering that exists. That's the only thing I'm trying to alleviate, and why my main suggestion has been to put all of these quests in a table that can be sorted by the reader by the categories that suit them. As for No Stone Unturned, for example, it objectively loses its value over time, but on the other hand it requires considerable extraordinary effort to finish it, viz. locating and obtaining each of the gems, so I can understand why it wouldn't necessarily be appealing as an immediate quest even if it logically makes sense as one. Thanks for the input, Xyzzy. --TheBBC American (talk) 04:07, 1 November 2013 (GMT)

I'm not sure that No Stone Unturned should even be listed. Completing the quest takes a massive amount of effort (25,000 gold, completing an entire major quest line, numerous enemy filled dungeons, etc). By the time a character completes the quest they can already have alchemy and/or enchanting maxed with far less effort and easily enough gold/and or resources to coast through the rest of Skyrim without having to worry about money. — Unsigned comment by MyBreton (talk • contribs) at 02:34 on 15 May 2014‎

I largely have to agree with MyBreton, though I disagree slightly with the last bit, since I know some people don't focus on crafting skills, plus there's the legendary resets to consider. I think the compromise is to leave it under the ASAP section and note that it takes a very long time to complete. About the only pseudo-quest I can think of that takes longer is gathering all the trophies for the TG side jobs, which requires that you do 125 of them. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 05:16, 15 May 2014 (GMT)

Sortable Table for Quest TimingEdit

It would be cool to see all of these quests and tasks put into a sortable table. In simple terms, the order for each quest can be more easily discerned by Value/Effort = Priority. There are some tasks that are easy to do but really offer little in return. For instance "Great Sword for a Great Man" takes little effort, but the reward is tiny. On the other hand the start of the Dark Brotherhood quest line takes little effort a little more time, but has a HUGE payoff regarding armor.

The value columns for the quests could include separate columns for Magic Enchant totals, Item Value total, combat effort, estimated time to complete. Thsi woul dmake it easier for people to sort out which taks they could do first based on the value/effort ratios.72.66.107.212 03:26, 13 January 2014 (GMT)

Lost to the Ages TimingEdit

You can start Lost to the Ages before starting Mourning Never Comes wihtout creating a conflict. As long as the player does not attack Alain Dufont then Alain Dufont will not engage in combat. The player can return to Raldbthar later and then kill Alain Dufont when Mourning Never Comes starts. 72.66.107.212 17:05, 7 February 2014 (GMT)

Does An Axe to Find conflict with Paid in Full?Edit

I can't remember, do you need to finish does An Axe to Find in order to start Paid in Full? Paid in Full gives you some awesome armor and other items very early, but is worth way more than the tedium of carrying around a 10 weight pick axe.

If you can start Paid in Full without starting/finishing An Axe to Find, then starting Axe to Find makes perfect sense. 72.66.107.212 03:38, 9 February 2014 (GMT)

No, you don't need to finish An Axe to Find in order to start Paid in Full. I went back a couple of saves just to be sure, and I have the pickaxe in my inventory as a quest item and the quest to return the bonemold formula as well. Even if that wasn't the case, though, I put it under "to start and not to finish" instead of one of the other categories since some people might not go to Solstheim until the later game and may already have better armour, or they may have a preference for heavy or no armour, in which cases they wouldn't care about the Blackguard's Armor. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 04:49, 9 February 2014 (GMT)

I am sort of torn about where an Axe to Find should appear. Armor aside, having a weightless pickax would be awesome for the entire game.72.66.107.212 00:31, 10 February 2014 (GMT)

Where do we put useful items?Edit

Is there a section or page for putting useful items? For instance the Staff of Revenants found in the ruins near Morthal is a nice piece of leveled gear that only requires killing a single skeleton. — Unsigned comment by MyBreton (talk • contribs) at 02:07 on 1 April 2014 (GMT)

We do need a section for useful items that are not associated with a specific quest. Items that come to mind are the Staff of Revenants (noted above), silver swords, the Staff of Paralysis found in Snap Leg Cave. — Unsigned comment by MyBreton (talk • contribs) at 14:24 on 9 July 2014 (GMT)

We actually don't need a section like this for several reasons. First of all, this page is for discussing when to complete certain quests to make the most out of their rewards, so a section about items that have nothing to do with quests would be irrelevant. Second, we try not to list information on random leveled items because there's no guarantee that it will appear every time. Third, this type of information is subjective. Silver swords are equal in strength to regular steel swords, and even though they do extra damage to undead, they're not as useful as most other weapons, especially since they can't be tempered, so they become obsolete pretty quickly.

We already mention notable non-leveled loot in the articles for the places where the loot is found, so there's not really any need to list it anywhere else. Zul se onikaan^{Laan tinvaak} 14:57, 9 July 2014 (GMT)

In My Time of Need?Edit

Why is this quest under the "To start immediately" section? It's my understanding that you can't get this quest until after "Dragon Rising", which directly contradicts the fact that "Dragon Rising" is to be saved for later. — Unsigned comment by 74.129.251.37 (talk) at 18:09 on 29 August 2014

That's a good point. This page in general is pretty subjective, and I don't think it's entirely consistent though. --Morrolan (talk) 22:20, 29 August 2014 (GMT)

Glitchy Quests?Edit

This has probably been discussed before, but I'm wondering if there shouldn't be a section on this page for quests that should be done earlier because they can corrupt other quests (specifically the Companions, and possibly Nilsine Shattershield?) Just curious thanks. 71.51.143.1 00:57, 20 May 2015 (GMT)

There is a section called "Quests that Conflict" which includes Nilsine Shattershield. The Companions quests aren't included because they have an issue because of a bug, not simply quest conflicts. Jeancey (talk) 05:50, 20 May 2015 (GMT)

Additional Quests to do ASAP?Edit

That Was Always There: I was going to suggest this as a quest to do ASAP, since you get a fairly significant reward for choosing to help Revyn Sadri. He's the only Speech trainer who is also a general trader available at the beginning of the game. He can train you up to 50, at which point you can get the Merchant perk, which is very useful if you manage to get it early on. Once you have the perk, you can take advantage of every other trainer who is also a merchant of some kind, selling them junk to get your gold back. This quest does require you to either pickpocket Viola Giordano's key, or pick the expert lock to her home, but it's not really that hard to pick expert locks at low skill levels.FrozenWolf150 (talk) 04:28, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Coming of Age: The fighting is very easy since you have two other adventurers helping you out. The only potentially tough fight is against Beem-Ja after the Warlord Gathrik is dead. For this quest, you get the Steel Battleaxe of Fiery Souls, a word of Become Ethereal, and some leveled loot.FrozenWolf150 (talk) 06:15, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Quest region would be nice to includeEdit

For a Skyrim beginner this list is frustrating because it gives all these quests, but one has no idea which ones make sense to do together (e.g. these quests are all in Falkreath, these are near Windhelm, etc.) Adding that would make the list a little less overwhelming, since one could easily see - while I am in this area I should do these quests.

This could be indicated by grouping the quests (within a heading) by region (as noted in another comment, alphabetical is not a helpful order). It could be noted by adding a region line to each item. Then I would know that Skyrim:Coming of Age is near Winterhold, without having to dig through 2 or 3 pages.

For quests that involve multiple regions, that could be noted, but highlight where quest starts.

Any thoughts on how best to indicate quest location, or reasons to not add this information? Fpark (talk) 00:32, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

I did a rough draft at adding this. The item title ("Beginning Region") still needs work (region isn't the right word since several regions have name different than the principal town, nor is location) - not sure how to concisely say "the nearest location that appears on the starting map". Fpark (talk) 01:55, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Reason to save completing A Night to Remember until higher levelEdit

Hello. A good reason to start the quest early is free travel to Markarth(save some gold, start House of Horrors), but one may wish to finish the quest much later. While the quest reward is quite nice, it is also leveled. How strong it is depends on your level when completing the quest. The dremora lords you can summon with the highest level version of this staff are far stronger than the ones it can summon at the lowest level. In fact, they are the same as the ones summoned by the expert spell except the staff version has 200 more health. Maybe someone could add that as a possible con of finishing the quest early. I'd do it myself, but I'm afraid I might mess it up.Jtenorj (talk) 11:27, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

I see you did decide to add it yourself. That's great—we encourage people to edit on their own; mistakes can always be corrected or undone if needed...don't worry too much about messing things up. And what you did was perfect. You're absolutely right, too, that's an excellent reason to save the quest for later. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 20:48, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

I hate to ruin the second part of your pep talk, but it's actually wrong (totally agree with the first part, though). The staff itself isn't leveled, just the dremora summoned; the same staff will summon stronger dremoras as you level up. So it doesn't hurt to get it as early as you can. I'm going to remove the sentence Jtenorj added. --95.222.29.245 01:36, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

OrganizationEdit

The current version of the page is much more logically organized than the attempted "cleanup". The mass removal of explanations for various sections is very strange, especially when trying to merge sections under unclear headings. The removal of the Quests that Conflict section, particularly the way in which they are forcibly merged under the ASAP section is just wrong. Those quests do not typically qualify for that section, nor any of the others easily, that is why they are documented there so people can see what conflicts there are. There are typically no lasting benefits, or anything unique that you miss out on, simply the opportunity to do that quest, which is not a part of the reasoning for having a quest listed under ASAP. One particular one is Lost to the Ages. There is no reason to do this ASAP, nor does it fall under any other section, yet it is changed to that to accommodate the forcible removal of the Conflict section. There is also no need to list BYOH for Falkreath under this section, as there is only a chance that the conflict will happen. The same situation applies to BOTI v Mourning Never Comes, and Lights Out v Ahtars quest, these are all only potential conflicts that depend entirely on your actions and can be completely avoided. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 18:08, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Nightingale Blade (Quest: Hard Answers)Edit

According to the Skyrim:Nightingale Blade article (and personal experience), the Nightingale Blade is best obtained before level 46 (by completing the Thieves Guild quest, Skyrim:Hard Answers). The highest-scaled version of this weapon is at 46, and that particular version cannot be improved, in contrast to its lower-scaled versions. Is this worth mentioning somewhere in the Quest Timing article? --Sol (talk) 23:41, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

The lower-level versions lack a perk for smithing, so they still fall behind in damage output when you need to temper at higher levels. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 00:39, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

The bug is already noted on its page. And fixed by US*P. No reason to duplicate note here.
--DayDreamer (talk) 14:42, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Suggestion for Quest to be Added to Quests to Do as Soon as PossibleEdit

As the Skyrim:The White Phial (quest)#Notes mention, "If you don't enter the White Phial the first time that you enter Windhelm, it may be possible that Nurelion will be already dying in his bed when you visit him later. The quest cannot be started and his apprentice will not be available as merchant."

I feel like this alone already qualifies this quest to be added to this page on its own merits, under "Quests to Do as Soon as Possible," as well as the fact that several other quests listed on this page will also take the player to Windhelm, thus incurring the possibility listed in the Notes of Nurelion dying.
kenmo (talk) 20:48, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Suggestion for Quest to Be Added to Early-Game ItemsEdit

I feel like Skyrim:In the Shadows could be added to the list of Skyrim:Quest Timing#Early-Game Items for the relatively helpful spell Skyrim:Detect Life (spell). As a bonus, the quest doesn't require much skill use/forced leveling.
kenmo (talk) 17:58, 14 May 2023 (UTC)