Skyrim talk:Dawnguard/Archive 3

This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Dawnguard discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Problems with lagging and freezing (xbox)

Since I've downloaded Dawnguard, I seems to be having a lot more issues with my xbox lagging and freezing randomly. Maybe it's just coincidence, maybe my xbox is on its last legs, but I figured I'd mention it and see if anyone else is having a similar problem. Obax 16:38, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

I am having similar issues, including freezing, frame severe rate drops and getting stuck on loading screens. Oh and although unrelated I just found a bug regarding Drain Vitality and Marked For Death at Autumnwatch Tower (I already know Krii and Lun if anyone wishes to investigate it further) --90.211.88.20 15:36, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm also getting massive drops in frames and random freezes, having to reload saves many times. Often times the events don't occur in the newcontent area. They still happen there a lot, but they also happen elsewhere is what I should say. Sleeping in a bed for one hour seemed to help SLIGHLTY. I also have the new black Xbox 360 that I purchased about 2 months ago, so I don't think it has to do with the console itself.— Unsigned comment by 67.142.163.26 (talk) at 17:19 on July 1, 2012

I usually run in to some when a new patch comes out but I just delete the files Skyrim (if you have the game installed to the Hard drive) and Skyrim Title Update, then clear the cache. After that just reinstall it to the hard drive, start up the game and install the patch. After that is done make a new save and reboot the system. Dunno if that is all really necessary but it always fixes the lag and freezing for me might for you too. --SPMcKinney 11:53, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

ive got a problem where skyrim and freezes whilst on the "loading add-ons screen" and it just freezes. i was wondering wether i canjust delete and reinstall dawnguard and keep the saved game data as ive already completed the quests — Unsigned comment by 2.123.171.72 (talk) at 16:34 on 18 July 2012

Dawnguard content organization

I am not yet a member of this site, I have never edited a page, and only made fairly minimal contributions to a few talk pages; but I would like to make a suggestion about organzing Dawnguard content. With the add-ons for Oblivion, all new content specific to an add-on was placed in new pages about items, artifacts, spells, etc for that add-on. I think this was a good idea; after all, not everyone may download Dawnguard, and having it's spells and items all over the main Skyrim pages may confuse newcomers to the site and the series. It would make some already long pages even longer, and make finding dawnguard specific items on those pages somewhat more tedious. I was nice with the Shivering Isles and Knights of the Nine and a few of the other unique item laden expansions for Oblivion to be able to quickly skim a neat page dedicated specifically to what that add-ons brought to the table. Especially with the quest for Mehrunes Razor in Oblivion, since there were quite a few items that were bugged terribly as far as how they leveled. --75.249.127.117 18:28, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Most content added by the Dawnguard DLC comes under criteria for other things eg. Spells any other items added by the Add on that don't meet these criteria have there own pages. KingK 18:36, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

I don’t think Dawnguard really adds that many things. If you want a list of Dawnguard specific spells they can be found on the Dawnguard Magic page, which really shows how little was added. There is also a similar page for Dawnguard Items which again is not that big. — Kimi the Elf ^{(talk | contribs)} 19:20, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

There was a discussion on the Community Portal about giving Dawnguard its own namespace, like what was done for the Shivering Isles expansion, but consensus was to keep it within the Skyrim namespace. By now, everything Dawnguard-related that's been added to the wiki so far is already integrated into Skyrim's pages, as KingK mentioned. The subpages which are linked in the Gameplay Information section separate what's been added into the major significant categories and each of those pages lists the relevant summary information, along with links to find more details on each specific addition.

Dawnguard does add significantly more content than KotN, but as KingK mentioned, anything which doesn't fit the criteria to be integrated into already-existent pages has its own individual page. If new content is present on pages with mostly content from the original game, the new content should be distinguished with a template which looks like this: ^DG. This is supposed to help address the concern you have that it may confuse users who don't have Dawnguard. (If they don't know what the little DG stands for, hovering over it will show the text "Dawnguard", and it links to this article.)

Also, keep in mind that most of the Dawnguard-related content on-site is largely a work-in-progress. With basically only XBox players to contribute gameplay information, the Dawnguard content will take some time to have details added and pages to be fleshed out. If you can help with this, please do! ABCface^◥ 19:55, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

There you go ^ Everythin' explained in a nutshell. Well, I say nutshell XD. Cheers ABC. :) KingK 21:43, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Vampire and a Werewolf (bug)

So...I have a character that's been a werewolf all game, and have had Serana as a follower for most of my time post-Dawnguard adventuring. At one point I fast traveled to Silent Moons Camp,and then my screen went redish for a second and I get the notice that I'm now a vampire, even though I'm still a werewolf. I have the Beast Form power, but the regular stage one vampire abilities as well. I have no idea what might've triggered this, beyond maybe being hit by one of Serana's life drain spells, but even so, I should have been 100% immune to disease. As far as I can tell I never had the disease before the 'transformation' occurred. I'm on the Xbox to be clear. — Unsigned comment by 98.204.68.76 (talk) at 11:14 on 31 July 2012

Just re-did a similar series of events after reloading an earlier save, in that I traveled to the same place, but this time it took longer to happen. However, I got to read the message this time and it said something about my powers lessening as my hunger recedes (or whatever the message normally is). This would imply that I was already a vampire, which I wasn't. Apparently this bug is also repeatable. — Unsigned comment by 98.204.68.76 (talk) at 11:48 on 31 July 2012

This happened to me 2 days ago. I had given Serana 3 Potions of Blood I got in Castle Volkihar, wondering if she would drink them to heal in combat. She does, and it glitches and turns you into a vampire instantly (I'm on Dawnguard side). I reproduced it by giving Serana a Blood Potion, attacking her until she drank it, and I turned into a vampire (not Vampire Lord) right as she drank it. I read here that if this happens Falion can't cure you unless you have Serana make you a Vampire Lord (or possibly become a regular vampire via Sanguinare Vampiris) first. --24.92.180.9 00:38, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

I caught Sanguinare vampiris from one of the vampires shortly before freeing Serana. I was already a werewolf and Harbinger of the Companions. I found a shrine and healed myself prior to becoming a full-fledged vampire, since I still wanted to find all the Totems of Hircine, so I can't report on any other effects. I did, however, go more than 24 hours with the disease and was progressing normally with it (seeing red once a day) prior to my healing. I'm gonna start a new character and experiment more with this. It'd be interesting if there were a way to be both a werewolf and vampire lord (i.e. have both powers, not necessarily simultaneously, although that'd be pretty cool too!)

Unarmed stealth and wolves bugged

I wasn't if I should post this here or what, but Downloading Dawnguard will cause two of the newer 1.5 unarmed stealth finishers animations not to trigger (Choke hold, neck breaker) also with the dlc wolves will no longer howl. They will do the animation but with no audio will occur (174.60.100.160 05:25, 1 August 2012 (UTC))

Yes, that's the sort of thing we like to hear about. It just needs to be verified by someone before we add it to any articles, in case it's just something that's unique to your game. – Robin Hood↝talk 21:34, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Bug on PC - Cannot exit an area

This bug is occurring over and over again. The only workaround is either remove Dawnguard, or load previous game. Impossible to exit an area, character is getting back to the same spot. Also, impossible to fast travel from the area. It happened already several time, in different cities/interior locations. I tried removing other mods, it did not help. The bug is coming solely from Dawnguard. — Unsigned comment by 216.221.39.161 (talk) at 03:50 on 3 August 2012

This bug teleports me to the Riverwood inn, and it freezes when trying to exit the building. This bug seems to be unrelated to mods. — Unsigned comment by 67.160.220.106 (talk) at 22:36 on 3 August 2012

I had these same bugs, but they did not occur if I had deleted all mods. After spending hours installing one at a time and starting the game over and over, I have narrowed it down to the mod "The Dragon's Curse V5.2 [New Skins]", which upon looking at the comments on the mods page (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=12539), others (including the mod's author) have found it to be the same. Now awaiting that mod to be updated, until then try deleting this mod to correct these bugs. — Unsigned comment by 69.248.15.151 (talk) at 22:56 on 4 August 2012

Possible Alchemy Training Bug On PC Version

I've run into a possible bug with getting Alchemy Training from Arcadia since installing the Dawnguard plugin yesterday. The only thing that doesn't work is the actual going up in level. When you ask for training from Arcadia you get the usual training screen and you can hit the E key 5 times to train as usual and it takes your gold as usual but your Alchemy level doesn't go anywhere. Being that I am not into Alchemy very much it is not a big deal to me but it may be for some folks. I don't know if this is only related to Arcadia or to all other Alchemy Trainers or even to any type of Trainer. I will continue to monitor the situation and report my findings. Blade and Bone - Speak To Me 16:53, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

• UPDATE - I've tried several things that I thought might fix this issue with no success. As it stands now, getting Alchemy Training from Arcadia in my game is broken. Maybe a New Game would fix the issue. New Stuff, New Game; Right! Who knows? I hate to start over once again but I haven't really gone that far into the game so starting over would not be a big deal for me but it could be for others. Blade and Bone - Speak To Me 18:12, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
• UPDATE 2 - I've started a new game as mentioned above. I also found some information from another source stating that mods could be interfering with Dawnguard no matter how small, large or what they do so I am playing modless. All that is in my game is 3 Master Files or ESMs (Skyrim, Update and Dawnguard) and it may be just a coincidence but the game seems to be functioning better. Anyways I thought I'd share that information. Blade and Bone - Speak To Me 22:16, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Bug on PC, no biting living npcs possible!

I've run into what i believe is a bug for the PC version of dawnguard. When using the Vampire's Seduction power on a hostile NPC, it doesnt allow me to feed upon the NPC. In stead, when "activating" the NPC, I just start a conversation with them. At that point, they tell me what a horrible person i am for using magic on them, and how they are going to kill me... At no point does the menu appear that lets you select the feed option. It might be that this is due to me fiddling with "showracemenu" commands a bit too much. Its really frustrating as it causes me to get stuck at the "prophet" quest at the point where i need to feed on the moth priest. — Unsigned comment by 82.174.238.160 (talk) at 00:23 on 6 August 2012

If you have fiddled with the showracemenu than you probably took your character out of the vampire faction. Try loading an earlier save before you played with the menu and are a vampire. — Unsigned comment by 99.242.166.51 (talk) at 07:13 on 7 August 2012

If you modified the Vampire biting perk, the new feed option will not show up. Same goes for werewolf feeding on non-npcs. 92.226.93.154 01:09, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Dawnguard Freezing on PC.

I've played dawnguard for a few hours, did the quest vampire side, everything seemed to be playing perfectly normal. Unfortunately after about 5-10hours of game play my game would freeze, by freeze I do not mean a CTD or a "skyrim is not responding". I literally mean freeze, everything on screen stops moving the game basically hangs up. I do play with several mods but after testing them all out I can say none of them are affecting it. At last I decided to simply turn off Dawnguard and it appears to have no more freezes. With dawnguard however I could get a freeze every 5-30minutes causing me to have to ctrl + alt + del to open task manager and restart Skyrim. If any of you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them, one thing I noticed in wrye bash is that it tells me dawnguard is "plugin missing string localization files", unfortunately I could not find out what exactly this means or whether it is causing these freezes. Again, if you have any suggestions or info please share. — Unsigned comment by 99.242.166.51 (talk) at 07:11 on 7 August 2012

I have this very same problem and confirmed it much in the same way that you did. However, it only happens when I'm a vampire. --Droviin 19:36, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

I have re-enabled dawnguard now and the freezing has stopped, my guess is that the freezing starts when I finish the quest line or near the very end. -Spoiler- At the end when you become lord of the castle on the vampire side, you can talk to one of the npcs to clear the rubble to the courtyard, perhaps this is what causes the freezing as I've had some chat issues with him. I will now work my way through Dawnguard again and see at which point does the freezing start. — Unsigned comment by 99.242.166.51 (talk) at 23:08 on 7 August 2012

Personally, I've had random freezing issues just like this the entire time on Skyrim. However, it generally doesn't happen much and usually only after I've been playing for several hours. Rebooting the computer solves it for a few hours. However, just like the original comment, it happens a lot if I'm running the vampire quest line. My first playthrough on DG I went with the Dawnguard side. That character is primarily a warrior, so I tried it as a mage also on the Dawnguard side, but didn't bother finishing it; then I did another mage as a vampire and suddenly the game is locking up all the time. Typically it's at least once every 30 minutes, and I have had it happen within 5 minutes. However, after getting through the early vampire quests and realizing that it reached a point where the quests are basically the same on both sides, I fired up an archer character and went back to the Dawnguard side (wanted to see how crossbows work for an archer spec; for the record, bows are better if you're a smith) and suddenly the freezing up is back to the usually once every 4-6 hours instead of every 30 minutes.Quillan^Talk 16:49, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Quillan when you did the dawn guard play through, did you eventually become a vampire lord through the girl or did you finish it as a none vampire? Please share I'll try to play through it as dawnguard see what happens =] — Unsigned comment by 99.242.166.51 (talk) at 18:30 on 8 August 2012

On the completed playthrough, the character never became a vampire. I got partially soul trapped for the Soul Cairn instead. But the vampire character accepted the gift from Harkon and never made it to the Soul Cairn; I simply rampaged for a while until I had all the Lord perks and moved on.It might somehow be related to being a vampire lord, but no way for me to say really.Quillan^Talk 21:17, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

(←) On my next play I tried dawnguard with already being a vampire that means normal without vampire lord form. As soon as dawnguard was activated the freezing started. Thats before you even meet serena — Unsigned comment by 99.242.166.51 (talk) at 06:25 on 9 August 2012

I have the same issue with CTD's and Freezing. It started as soon as I installed Dawnguard and continued to happen at random all the way through the storyline and beyond. The only way it is going to be fixed is when Bethesda finds the source of the problem and incorporates a fix for it into a patch. My advice until a patch is made is hit your F5 key often. Works for me. Blade and Bone - Speak To Me 11:54, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

With lots of mods enabled, I've played 5-10 hours as a Vampire Lord. It only froze up once, when I picked a dialogue option my follower shouldn't have had, which was probably enabled by messing about with follower mods. Otherwise, I haven't had any crashes/freezing, though places now take forever to load thanks to Dawnguard. Three-minute loading screens. Vely^►t►e 15:56, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

From what I've been reading on the Dawnguard bugs, not everyone is experiencing every bug. My main problems as I mentioned above are the Crashes To Desktop and Screen Freezes right in the middle of play. It can happen anytime, anywhere and at random. I also have the Breezehome Alchemy Lab purchase bug. If I am right about it, it is stuck in an endless loop computer programming error. I can buy the lab but it never shows up in the house and then I can buy it again and get same results. This can be repeated over and over again as many times as I want so I believe the Alchemy Lab is stuck in an endless loop. I know a tiny bit about computer programming and endless loops are stuff programmers try to stay away from because they can cause a whole host of problems. Until a patch is made, I am going to be hitting the F5 key often to quicksave the game and I am not going to try to buy the Alchemy Lab for the Breezehome because the Dawnguard in my opinion is well worth dealing with some minor issues. Blade and Bone - Speak To Me 21:52, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Curing the regained Lycanthropy in Dawnguard

moved to Skyrim talk:Werewolf#Curing the regained Lycanthropy in Dawnguard

No Werewolf

I play with a level 42 werewolf character. After installing Dawnguard, I am unable to transform at all. Upon pressing the power button, the screen does the distorting thing its supposed to, but my character does not transform. Further more, I cannot access the menu anymore, even after waiting a whole day. I use a PC but no mods affecting werewolves are installed. Anyone else have this problem?— Unsigned comment by 173.93.238.170 (talk) at 19:01 on 9 August 2012 (UTC)

It is not only mods that effect werewolves. Just by installing Dawnguard, any mod can mess up. If taking all of your mods of does nothing, re-install the update or Dawnguard.--Br3admax 19:01, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Talking as Vampire (PC)

Hey Guys, I just turned into a Vampire and need to talk to Garan Marethi but as a Vampire a can't talk nor loot and as a human he tells me that human are not allowed in the Castle and I should go to Lord Harkon and fix that problem. — Unsigned comment by 93.194.88.172 (talk) at 21:57 on 13 August 2012‎

I encounter the same problem. I can turn into a vampire lord just fine, and the perk system works fine as well, but Garan Marethi and all the other vampires consider me as a mere human who gave up on being a vampire lord. As far as I know, none of my mods should interfere with Dawnguard's content, and starting a new character won't solve the problem (tried with my female Nord character, it didn't work ; I tried with a newly created female Altmer and after with a female Orc, still didn't work). And no matter the chosen race, I wouldn't get these vampiric eyes Harkon and Serena had. I doubt playing as a female could be the reason (or does Bethesda not like ladies =p ?). The only console command I used with the last character (the Orcish gal) was the "motherlode" equivalent, but I doubt it has something to with the problem either. Reloading a previous save won't do the trick : I tried numerous times with each and every character, and it didn't work. Does anyone have ideas or methods to resolve this situation ?

82.230.43.98 21:51, 6 September 2012 (EDT)

I found a way using console key ~. You have to write set player.setrace (your-race)racevampire. For example player.setrace bretonracevampire. But this cheat doesn't fix it, so you have to repeat it every time you need. — Unsigned comment by 151.26.49.217 (talk) at 18:27 on 9 September 2012‎

New Occurances

I have had a few new random encounters since playing Dawnguard:

A group of three NPC's dressed as vigilants of Stendarr will say "Hey you, travelever, come over here." (There were no subtitles, whoever, despite mine being always on) When you get close you notice bodies labled "Vigilant of Stendarr" which are naked and unarmed and contain only 4-7 gold strewn around the NPC's, and once they turn hostile they are labled "Vampire". Occured near the Sarethi farm late at night. Can anyone confirm having this happen as well? Rye 03:26, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I haven't encountered this one yet myself, but I'm pretty sure this link includes the data for the encounter you're referring to. The World Interactions page is currently lacking information for random encounters added by Dawnguard, but feel free to add basic information to that page as you come across it. ABCface^◥ 04:36, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I came across 2 dead naked Stendarr people as well and next to them were 2 people wearing mage robes with hoods. They didn't attack me, and only seem to have generic lines like "Hmm?" and "Huh?" and things like that. They seemed to have vampire eyes (they were dark red with light red irises). --Sencilia 14:09, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Release?

Has anyone got any clue as to when this may be released for PS3? I have done 6 playthroughs since the Xbox exclusive time was up and starting to get bored. — Unsigned comment by KingK (talk • contribs) at 18:00 on 14 August 2012 (UTC)

They are still suffering from performance issues as of the latest reports. The future of the PS3 version is currently rather ambiguous and unclear. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 18:00, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I find it hard to believe as it has been release for Xbox and PC. If they were bothered about performance issues they would never have release the game in the first place, as we all know it was super laggyKingK^Talk 18:06, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Regardless, that is the official story. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 18:09, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

changing from vampire lord to human causes game to freeze

after being turned by Harkon i have an issue that when i change back from a vampire lord my game freezes, everything just locks up ive turned off all mods and it still does this and i had it happen on another character of mine as well. — Unsigned comment by 68.46.7.175 (talk) at 05:23 on 15 August 2012

I saw a similar bug mentioned in some gamer articles (specifically some at GameNGuide and at InEntertainment.co.uk), they mentioned saving before entering the room where you rescue someone to avoid a game-breaking bug (it didn't mention who, probably to avoid spoilers). Apparently sometimes the bug happens and sometimes it doesn't. I guess just save often to avoid any of the game-breaking bugs apparently present in the PC version. The articles were mainly accusing Bethesda of cheating fans who play on PS3 though, not about bugs, just in case anyone wants to look these up. Also, please sign your posts. Lord Nordeck 05:07, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Encountered same issue, but in my case it was mod triggered (although took some hunting to identify which). Dovahkiin hideout includes an amulet that teleports you to the home when you put it on, but you can then leave it on. If you're wearing it when you transform, the game freezes on transforming back (unless you're already in the cell it teleports you to). Suspect might have a similar effect with werewolf, but haven't tested. Based on this, I'd say try taking off all your equipment before transforming, then see if it still freezes on reverting; it may be something you're wearing. SpoonyBrad 19:15, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

This glitch triggered for me several times. I figured out that I needed to wait until the game fully finished the transformation animation, whether from human into vampire lord or vice-versa. If I pressed the Shout/Power button on accident or otherwise, while my character still had the "veins" on his skin, it would cause a rapid transformation back into a vampire lord and the character would freeze and become completely unresponsive. This glitch can occur from pressing the Shout button too early no matter which form you're turning into. One really simple way to test how long this animation takes to fully complete is to cast a simple Oakflesh/Ironflesh/etc. spell on the character before transforming. If you press the shout button again BEFORE the glowing spell reappears on the character after your transformation, your game is likely to freeze up in this manner. Hellbiter88 8:52, 10 September 2012

Tonilia Inventory

Im playing on xbox. Before installing Dawnguard (although I was already fully up to date with patches prior to Dawnguard) I was level 60 and leader of the thieves guild. Tonilia and the other guild fences would always have the best gear, usually Daedric stuff and occasionally Dragon stuff while regular merchants and smiths have never given me anything better than Ebony. After installing Danwguard Tonilia for some reason seems to have reset and now she only ever has Elven, Dwarven, and occasionally Orcish. The other fences still have top level equipment, but it still kind of sucks because of all the fences Tonilia was the only one where I would regularly find Daedric Daggers and I was hoping to get an enchanted one soon. 71.181.54.110 10:24, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Ive continued playing and have discovered that its not only affecting Tonilia, but every merchant in the Ragged Flagon. The smiths no longer sell ebony stuff, and the alchemist no longer sells elixers. I have also leveld up to 61 and waited for their inventories to respawn hoping that the level up would knock things back on track but it didnt help. 71.181.54.110 07:29, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

I am getting Crashes To Desktop too.I did a Trial-and-Error sequence with my mods,found out which ones seemed to be bugging my game and got them out.So,I'm playing Skyrim(with Dawnguard on!) and the momment I traveled to Windhelm by carriage,the game crashed!I went on foot,fast-traveled,tried the carriage again and went by the command console too.The time that my game would crash changed only by 1 or 2 seconds.I'm also getting this on other areas and instances,as well as quests.One such quest is Lost to the Ages.I hope they get a spot on these and release a patch within September at least!!

Last paragraph as written by bishon 8:57 PM 28th-Aug-12 — Unsigned comment by 79.131.53.110 (talk) at 17:57 on 28 August 2012

For what it's worth, Tonilia and the others do have daedric items available for me to purchase, but my character was level 78 when the Dawnguard add-on came out. Perhaps the level values were changed for the loot available. Minotaur 23:12, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Level caps raised with Dawnguard?

I've been wondering if there have been made changes to level caps - i.e. the player level cap of 81 may have been raised - with the addition of Dawnguard. Knowing if there are any such changes would have an impact upon my perk choices from this point and I'm making this note for the sake that there are likely to be others who'll want to know about such changes as well. I regret I can't provide any practical information, I can only raise the question. But at least here's a spot to leave a line about possible Dawnguard level changes for any of us once we know the facts. AmaDraque 23:13, 30 August 2012 (UTC)AmaDraque

It does not raise the level cap. Vely^►t►e 23:16, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Vampire/Werewolf Perks & the Skyrim Skill Perk system

One more thing: Do the Werewolf and Vampire perk tree additions work alongside the original skill perk system, or do you actually use one of the original Skyrim Skill Perks whenever you choose to use a perk in the Vampire or Werewolf Perk Trees? AmaDraque 23:13, 30 August 2012 (UTC)AmaDraque

You receive vampire lord perks from killing creatures with your life drain spell. I assume you earn werewolf perks from feeding on bodies or killing people as a werewolf. These are unique perks that do not affect and are not affected by the regular Skyrim perks. Vely^►t►e 23:16, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

To clarify, the werewolf perks are earned from feeding on bodies, not from killing. ABCface^◥ 02:47, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

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